Suggestions and do I need 4wd?

[DavidVT]

Hello all,
I have not posted for years, and then it was about my Kubota tractor ...
So, we have 12 acres of which we often mow half of it. We have hilly property that works the average mower.

I have one tired old Craftsman garden tractor (99) that can do the hills if I am careful. (been flipped backwards more than once) After installing an electric fuel pump on the Craftsman, it has never let me down but age is getting to it mechanically.
I have one newer Husky that never dealt with the hills (ran away downhill and refused to climb uphill). It died at the end of this past summer.
Both of these in the 18 to 22hp range.

It is time to replace the primary mower (Husky) with something which will not scalp the grass, will never hesitate to run, and safely go up, down, and across the hills.

We are focusing on the non big box store John Deere products and expect to spend at least twice what the old garden tractors cost us. We are considering this next mower an investment and are going to take our time with the decision.
The Husky's engine is dead but the ole craftsman will get the summer started ok. Thus no super rush but hopefully we have this new one by July 4th 2018 as a goal.

Looking for product suggestions along with help trying to determine if 4wd/awd is needed. (I dont want to blow money on a feature we dont need but also dont want to make a mistake if we do need it.)
We are not interested in a zero turn.
Not looking for mulching nor bagging. This is rural former farm land that we simply like to keep mowed.
Not looking for snow removal nor any winter use as the Kubota has that responsibility along with bucket and backhoe.
The grass is often thick and the hills challenging.

Thank you

 

[oosik]

A lot of what you seek/ask revolves around the decision you must make. Do I want a unit that will do the job safely, all the time, without EVER a chance of failure. If that is your decision - then, most likely, you will want a 4WD unit. If, on the other hand, you can accept something less - perhaps 2WD is adequate.

Your major concern could easily be safety. "The grass is often thick and THE HILLS CHALLENGING". "(BEEN FLIPPED BACKWARDS MORE THAN ONCE)". Those two statements, to me, would indicate the need for 4WD & stout roll bar for safety, if nothing else.

Find excitement in your grandchildren, not maintenance of your property. The two statement I've quoted above could go well beyond excitement and be terminal.

 

[DavidVT]

Love the 'excitement' statement! Good food for thought.
Only looking for inputs to the decision. In the end it is all mine of course.

 

[jeff9366]

I cannot speak to Lawn & Garden tractors.

Traditional tractors have brakes only on the rear wheels. With 4-WD engaged a traditional tractor has the semblance of four wheel braking going downhill. With 2-WD, when tractor weight shifts forward going downhill, on to small front wheels, there are times when braking is nonexistent.

Do Lawn & Garden tractors have brakes on both front and rear wheels?



HST transmission provides some transmission/engine braking going downhill.

 

[ovrszd]

I like my JD2210 4wd. Very durable and capable mower. Plus tracgor features if needed. I bought it with 100hrs at 4 years old paid $9500. Sounded like a lot of money at the time. 9 years later and 900hrs on the meter I think it's the cheapest machine I could have bought.

 

[rgr33]

I don’t have much experience with lawn and garden mowers either. But I do have experience mowing on a hill. I mow a vineyard, on a fairly steep hillside, with a clover cover crop, which is as greasy as heck when wet.

I wouldn’t consider mowing under those conditions without a ROPS, seat belt, and 4wd.
In your situation, I would be thinking of a compact utility tractor, like the kubotas and John Deere’s many on this board own, equipped with a rotary or finish mower.

If that doesn’t suit you, than I would look at one of the larger lawn tractors WITH 4wd.
You have tempted fate enough already, and maybe, your luck might turn on you at some point if you choose to stay with a 2wd unit.

I don’t mean to sound preachy, but It gives me the Willie’s to think about hillside mowing on green grass.

 

[DavidVT]

Thank you for inputs. Anyone else please chime in.

My curiosity was triggered so I just spent 30 min looking at 2210 listings and also figuring out what is the new version of that platform (and price).

The ideas around larger subcompacts beyond a garden tractor take me back to the original Kubota shopping 14 years ago.

My friend had loaned me his B model Kubota which we used for a weekend. It felt so top heavy on these hills that we actually waited a year to save a bit more cash. With that we bought the GrandL with a much wider footprint. With filled industrials I can brush hog the wild hills we don’t mow without fear. (Yes belted and ROPS up)

Unfortunately it does not make a good mower platform as the industrials, even in 2wd, rip up the lawn when I cross the grass. .

I can see this will be an interesting journey selecting the next mowing rig.

Happy Holidays to all!

 

[beenthere]

For a simple answer to best help you go forward, get a JD 425, 445, or 455 with a 54" deck in AWS (all wheel steer).

Good luck..

 

[oosik]

Another though, David. On the really steep mowing areas - you might want to go with more vertical mowing as opposed to strictly horizontal. However, if it was safe with the old Craftsman mower, you will certainly be able to find something that fits the bill.

 

[MossRoad]

Hello all,
I have not posted for years, and then it was about my Kubota tractor ...
So, we have 12 acres of which we often mow half of it. We have hilly property that works the average mower.

I have one tired old Craftsman garden tractor (99) that can do the hills if I am careful. (been flipped backwards more than once) After installing an electric fuel pump on the Craftsman, it has never let me down but age is getting to it mechanically.
I have one newer Husky that never dealt with the hills (ran away downhill and refused to climb uphill). It died at the end of this past summer.
Both of these in the 18 to 22hp range.

It is time to replace the primary mower (Husky) with something which will not scalp the grass, will never hesitate to run, and safely go up, down, and across the hills.

We are focusing on the non big box store John Deere products and expect to spend at least twice what the old garden tractors cost us. We are considering this next mower an investment and are going to take our time with the decision.
The Husky's engine is dead but the ole craftsman will get the summer started ok. Thus no super rush but hopefully we have this new one by July 4th 2018 as a goal.

Looking for product suggestions along with help trying to determine if 4wd/awd is needed. (I dont want to blow money on a feature we dont need but also dont want to make a mistake if we do need it.)
We are not interested in a zero turn.
Not looking for mulching nor bagging. This is rural former farm land that we simply like to keep mowed.
Not looking for snow removal nor any winter use as the Kubota has that responsibility along with bucket and backhoe.
The grass is often thick and the hills challenging.

Thank you

So what exactly is your preferred budget? That can narrow down the looking quite a bit.

 

[RoyKing]

Don't worry anything you mention will get the job done buy something that makes it more fun to use it

 

[ruffdog]

We have a Deere x744 diesel all wheel steer, the neighbor has a x750 gas, dad has a x749 diesel, AWS and 4x4, and we all mow 5 acres+ with them. They are a stable platform and are easy to use....ask my wife.

 

[crazyal]

Here's my advice, you can decide if it's helpful. I had several cheap riding mowers, the last being a Wheel Horse from Lowes (lower end model). It wasn't hydro but it was variable speed (reeves drive like a snow machine). On some of my steeper hills it would get good traction and lift the front tires off the ground. Going down some of the not so steep hills one tire would break free. Because it was an open diff and the brake was before the diff one wheel would spin in reverse while the other would just turn normally. The end result was almost no braking. More than once I was getting ready to jump off and let it go into the woods.

After a couple years of me being stubborn (not wanting to spend premium money on something I don't like doing) I broke down and bought an X500 Deere. I think the X500 is now the X570. It has a manual diff lock and it's a lot heavier. Never once has the front felt light or like it would flip. With the diff lock I can easily go up the steepest of hills on my property (one is too steep to walk up). I think you would be fine with one of the X500 models with the manual diff lock. Which one is up to you. Mine is the basic one but you can get power steering, hydraulic lift mowing deck, and fuel injection. But you will want the heavier hydro unit model. A good rule of thumb the dealer told me was look at how the rear wheel mount. If they have bolts (like lug nuts) then it's heavy duty.

4wd should help but I wouldn't give up the locking diff. If you don't mind spending the extra money then I wouldn't talk you out of it. The dealer I bought my used X500 offered to let me use it for a week to make sure it was the right choice. I'm not sure if they would with a new machine or not but it did give me confidence.

 

[kthompson]

One thing you discounted right off I totally agree with you, not a place for a zero turn mower at ALL. I am on basically flat ground with some sloping in my mother in laws yard and when it is wet forget climbing with and steering. Not familiar right off with some of these mowers but have a "B" Kubota and think any mower only will have lower center of gravity.

 

[Deere Dude]

I have a X740 diesel. It is a small heavy maneuverable GT but 2 WD, I have rears filled and 100# of cast iron extra on each wheel. I ran with chains all year for many years just for the traction on hills. I took them off since I got flatter land now and no snow.

Mowing sideways in steep ditches it never came close to tipping though it gives me the willies sometimes. Once I got off to test it and tried tipping it up manually to see how light it was on the top end. Couldn't budge it. 4WD would be my choice especially for coming down long wet steep hills. Going up the diesel weight keeps the front end planted nice. If not I would add suitcase weights for that. But still the front will bob up a tad when hitting a rock or a bump going up hill.

 

[ruffdog]

If you have hills, the HD tires and 4x2 should be fine.

X7 Signature Series Tractors | Lawn Tractors | John Deere US

 

[XSKIER]

I've always thought that the Simplicity Prestige 4wd would make a nice hill side mower. On my hills, I would have to engage the diff-lock on my old 425 (rimguard in ATV tires) on the ride down. If not one wheel would skid backward, the other forward, when trying to hold the speed back with the travel pedal. The tractor would skid out of control. Now with the 'R in 4wd I can just fly up down sideways whatever ways in total confidence.

 

[Agvg]

Maybe a two-wheel machine made for steep terrain?

 

[dstig1]

I went through this very issue earlier this year. I don't have a ton of lawn, but it is all difficult with lots of side slopes and tight areas. Total lawn is maybe an acre, if that. I have a friend with an X320 JD (something like that) and he tried mowing it once. It did not go well. He was spinning wheels at various places, and some sections he wouldn't even try. So I knew I would at least need an X500 as they have the diff lock. I went to a couple dealers thinking they would push me into 4wd, and one was doing that but the other 2 both thought an X500 would work for me. I tried one out at the dealer on a severe slope ditch which was not too different from my place, and it seemed solid. I also tried to tip it over sideways when parked on the side hill, and it was rock solid. So I bought one, they delivered and I started to mow. Took me all of 5 minutes to get it stuck, and I had to pull it out with the Kubota. Not what I was expecting. I was in a spot where I had to back up up hill with nowhere else to go, and it would not get traction, even with the diff lock. It was probably the worst spot in the yard. I was able to do the rest of the lawn OK after pulling it out, but I kept thinking about it and went back to the dealer. Here I got a surprise. He said Deere had a 30 day no questions return. Really?!?! Why didn't anyone mention this before? Hmmmm. He was actually pretty apologetic about having to to up to an X738 as they are ungodly expensive, and a bunch more than even the X500. So we swapped. It works. No problems getting stuck and it still has the diff lock in case things get real ugly. I've even started mowing areas that are steep enough i would not have even tried them before. On side slopes, my pucker factor gives out well before the tractor would tip. I didn't like coughing up how much that cost, but I need it to do the job and not get stuck or cause me issues in the long run.

So ask about the 30-day thing so you know where you stand ahead of time.

The one big difference between the X738 and the SCUTs is that the 4wd is supposed to be a special setup to not gouge lawns in turns, and it seems OK for that, whereas a SCUT is going to be full on 4wd, no give at all. It is supposed to back off on driving the inside front wheel or something in a turn. It will still tear up grass a bit turning on steep slopes, especially if it is at all damp. FYI

 

[spitter]

I have a 2 wheel drive simplicity legacy and I cut grass on parts of my property that is very steep. Hard to walk. Never had any issue with it at all. Have wheel weights . The only time I wish I had 4 wd is when I plow snow . I built a 30"x 48" carry all and put bags of salt in it for counter balance and use tire chains and it gets the job done. If you want the best hill machine buy a Ventrac or a Steiner.:drink: