Starter wiring trouble.

[klc336]

I have an international b414 diesel. The original starter went out and can't be repaired and it had a push rod solenoid. I got a new one and it has an electronic solenoid, but I cannot find an UPDATED wiring diagram to help me. I put it on the tractor and tested it and all it does is click. So I pulled it off and tested it and it works great. It won't throw out or spin on the tractor I've tried everything I know, it's just not making sense to me how I can test it off the tractor and it works fine but when it's on the tractor do the exact same thing and it only click. And no it's not I wiring or ground problem. I'm simply testing by jumping the solenoid no wires are attached to the tractor except the ground and that wire is new
And I've rewired lots of tractors and tested them all this way never had this problem before..

 

[jaxs]

Sound's like there's enough juice to activate solenoid and possibly engage Bendix drive but not enough juice to turn engine over. Test both batteries (if it has two 6 volts). If you leave wires connected and pull starter from bell housing,then starter works,it is (A) battery not fully charged or (B) one or more cables with poor connection or (C) one or more cables rotted inside jacket where you can't see.

 

[klc336]

I'm not using the tractors batteries or wiring. I'm using a jump box for power and a wire to jump the terminals on the starter. It's not engaging anything other than the solenoid. But it works fine when I do the same thing off the tractor. Only difference is the starter is on the tractor

 

[jaxs]

I'm not using the tractors batteries or wiring. I'm using a jump box for power and a wire to jump the terminals on the starter. It's not engaging anything other than the solenoid. But it works fine when I do the same thing off the tractor. Only difference is the starter is on the tractor

Same principle applies whether using tractor batteries or jump box. Use alligator clips or have an assistant hold volt meter probes on cable post on starter and starter housing. If voltage is maintained when starter is engaged,starter is defective. If voltage drops,starter might also be defective but cables,connection and battery should be suspect. As I recall,2 batteries are parallel 6volt positive ground,has that been altered?

 

[klc336]

You are correct it is positive ground. Nothing has been altered yet but I will have to rewire the tractor and add in a new starting key switch do to the new starter not using a push rod solenoid which is why I'm trying to test it like this to figure out which wire's need to go where on the starter and then found out that I cannot get the starter to properly engage.

 

[jaxs]

I would expect the starter to have 1 post that is connected to cable from large post on remote solenoid. Other large post on solenoid connects to negative battery post. Small post(s) on solenoid can be different due to substitutions of various solenoids(all will work but must be wired differently). The correct solenoid has 1 small post that when grounded engauges solenoid. Substituts can have 2 small posts,one marked I for ignition and other marked S for start. The start can require + or - ,depending on which tractor/car/truck it is used on. Can you positively say which and how small post was desighned to engauge solenoid? We can install a push button for start without having to replace key switch.

 

[klc336]

Yes, its clear. And that's how I've been testing it. Which is why I'm confused

 

[LittleBill21]

are you jumping it off the tractor as a positive ground? or like a normal ground? is the solenoid wired in a way to handle a positive ground?

 

[ch1ch2]

I have 2 IH tractors.

I do not know the wiring off the top of my head, but I have experienced the same problem. Motor winding and solenoid both have to engage at the same time.

 

[klc336]

Well I've been having to do it as a negative ground. When I try it as a positive ground it just archs. I will say this is my first positive ground tractor and I would like to convert it to negative.

 

[ch1ch2]

It should be a neg ground.

 

[ch1ch2]

Should be neg ground.
I do not know how to post or attach a pic.

 

[klc336]

Should be neg ground.
I do not know how to post or attach a pic.

If you take a picture of it on your phone and go to post something click the arrow in the bottom left corner

 

[LittleBill21]

Well I've been having to do it as a negative ground. When I try it as a positive ground it just archs. I will say this is my first positive ground tractor and I would like to convert it to negative.

this is kind of hard without seeing it, but i would disconnect all ground straps and batterys from the tractor . i would use a set of jumper cables directly to the starter and bypass all wiring on the tractor period.

once you get the tractor spinning, then i would worry about converting or wiring in any switches. i am concerned you may have damaged the solenoid.

 

[klc336]

The solenoid works properly as well as the starter when it is off of the tractor. There are no wires connected to the tractor

 

[klc336]

The solenoid works properly as well as the starter when it is off of the tractor. There are no wires connected to the tractor

I have been bypassing the wires on the tractor the entire time because they are useless with THIS starter

 

[ch1ch2]

If you take a picture of it on your phone and go to post something click the arrow in the bottom left corner

Not sure about post something.

I quick reply and there is no arrow in the bottom left corner.

 

[klc336]

Not sure about post something.

I quick reply and there is no arrow in the bottom left corner.

A quick reply should show a box like this or a camera

 

[LittleBill21]

The solenoid works properly as well as the starter when it is off of the tractor. There are no wires connected to the tractor

then you have another issue.

either the engine is locked up (can you turn it with a breaker bar?)

your jump pack is not strong enough to actually turn the engine

your cables are bad

your cable connection to the starter are bad (voltage drop test need)

do you have a clamp on amp meter?

starter could be bad too, off engine means nothing usually as amperage is 1/10th of actual

 

[ch1ch2]

A quick reply should show a box like this or a camera
View attachment 583108

Not on mine.
Wonder if it because I have a MAC