48x39x14 shop build
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dieselcrawler
Elite Member
Why not? I dont see why you couldnt drill a hole into the cement, say 3/4" dia, install the thermostat probe, pack the hole with sand, and get the desired effect. (Packing with sand would allow removal if failure occurred, but maintain similar temp as concrete) Naturally, youd want to not hit your embedded pipes, but doing so now, while the memory of thier location is fresh(er) in your memory, and you likely have pictures to guide you as well. Drilling the hole inside your utility room, near the interior partition wall would give a better status, but not a big deal either way.
You always have options!
fordmantpw
Veteran Member
We have geothermal.
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ovrszd
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My concrete guy came by this morning to remove thr porch forms and power wash the stamped floor.
We discussed wall thermostat versus concrete. He said the ones he has saw separate the functions. Wall thermostat controls the pump. Concrete thermostat controls the heater. Idea being to keep from overheating the slab. Overheating causes temp rise after the system shuts off. Positive is less fluctuation in room temp. Negative is slower to react and more pump run time.
We discussed wall thermostat versus concrete. He said the ones he has saw separate the functions. Wall thermostat controls the pump. Concrete thermostat controls the heater. Idea being to keep from overheating the slab. Overheating causes temp rise after the system shuts off. Positive is less fluctuation in room temp. Negative is slower to react and more pump run time.
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Maybe pricey but radiant is the standard where I worked in Europe... both radiators and in slab...
Huge cabinets shops and auto repair shops all with radiant... so are most new homes.
The least desirable to their thinking is forced air... they call them dust blowers and similar...
truckdiagnostics
Platinum Member
Overszd,
I think you will want to use a manifold in your house that will allow for flow control on the individual loops. I believe on the newer electronic thermostats there is a setting for radiant floor, forced air ect, make sure that is on radiant floor that will help with the swings. You will not get rid of it completely in the shop. Radiant floor heat is going to give you nasty swings in temp if you open and close the doors a lot. If that becomes an issue you can(maybe) add a zone in the shop for water to air exchanger, such that when air temp drops a lot it turns on the forced air, brings it up to say 4 degrees below the floor thermostat. Then the radiant floor brings it up the rest of the way. With the doors closed you would run off just the floor heat. (i am guessing that boiler is big enough)We had to do that in one of our shops. Don't get me wrong radiant floor heat is still the way to go. Once you work on warm concrete you will never go back. I do like your shop boiler
On your house.....? if it is a ranch and the flow through each part of the loop is the same, I don't think you will need to zone control it. Radiant floor heat is an even heat and a lot different that any of the others. However, zone control the bathroom, shower the wife uses(big bathrooms). Consider adding tubes behind the walls for the tiled shower. In areas of large heat loose they should have you put the loops closer together. So, for individual rooms, short of the full baths, if the loops are layed out correctly I do not believe you need to zone control. Typically your heating contractor gives your house plans to his radiant floor tubing supplier and they give him the plans for the tubing layout.Then with a manifold where you can control the flow in each loop making it the same(not like your shop) you should be ok.
We have done radiant floor personally three times, house garage, shop and just recently new room in the barn. I have gotten smarter each time. The kid went into the business also so that helps.
I think you will want to use a manifold in your house that will allow for flow control on the individual loops. I believe on the newer electronic thermostats there is a setting for radiant floor, forced air ect, make sure that is on radiant floor that will help with the swings. You will not get rid of it completely in the shop. Radiant floor heat is going to give you nasty swings in temp if you open and close the doors a lot. If that becomes an issue you can(maybe) add a zone in the shop for water to air exchanger, such that when air temp drops a lot it turns on the forced air, brings it up to say 4 degrees below the floor thermostat. Then the radiant floor brings it up the rest of the way. With the doors closed you would run off just the floor heat. (i am guessing that boiler is big enough)We had to do that in one of our shops. Don't get me wrong radiant floor heat is still the way to go. Once you work on warm concrete you will never go back. I do like your shop boiler
On your house.....? if it is a ranch and the flow through each part of the loop is the same, I don't think you will need to zone control it. Radiant floor heat is an even heat and a lot different that any of the others. However, zone control the bathroom, shower the wife uses(big bathrooms). Consider adding tubes behind the walls for the tiled shower. In areas of large heat loose they should have you put the loops closer together. So, for individual rooms, short of the full baths, if the loops are layed out correctly I do not believe you need to zone control. Typically your heating contractor gives your house plans to his radiant floor tubing supplier and they give him the plans for the tubing layout.Then with a manifold where you can control the flow in each loop making it the same(not like your shop) you should be ok.
We have done radiant floor personally three times, house garage, shop and just recently new room in the barn. I have gotten smarter each time. The kid went into the business also so that helps.
prof fate
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I replaced radiant (hot water radiators and baseboards) with forced air in my house.
More dust? slightly. Dust is still in the house, just with radiant not being blown around as much I guess. the filter traps stuff that with radiant is laying about somewhere.
For heat-rise, say, taking a 65d room and making it 72d, nothing works like forced air. HOWever, my studio is not used much in the winter so I keep the temp there about 55. when I need to work in there I"ll turn it up to 70 - it gets working-warm in 10-15 minutes..BUT - furniture and such is still cold to the touch, the 55F it's been kept at.
I've nto lived/worked ina radiant heated floor to know how that is to actually live with - is it warm?
And does efficiency differ by type of heating? Forced air I can turn back when I'm not there and heat it bck up quickly..the radiators never did very well at that. So it's more comfortable to keep it warm 24/7.
And if the tools/floor/tables are heated by radiant, great - but if you have to wear a coat due to air temp it's not comfortable (IMO).
And if the slab is hot, it's unlikely to heat up quickly..so it's going to need to be kept warm 24/7..not efficient to warm an empty space.
And if takes 50,000 BTU to warm/maintain temps, does it matter what the method is? Cost wise to make the heat will vary by fuel, but 50k btu is 50k btu. Now can a radiant heater FEEL more comfortable over force air (or vice versa) with less BTU being used for heating?
THAT is the question
More dust? slightly. Dust is still in the house, just with radiant not being blown around as much I guess. the filter traps stuff that with radiant is laying about somewhere.
For heat-rise, say, taking a 65d room and making it 72d, nothing works like forced air. HOWever, my studio is not used much in the winter so I keep the temp there about 55. when I need to work in there I"ll turn it up to 70 - it gets working-warm in 10-15 minutes..BUT - furniture and such is still cold to the touch, the 55F it's been kept at.
I've nto lived/worked ina radiant heated floor to know how that is to actually live with - is it warm?
And does efficiency differ by type of heating? Forced air I can turn back when I'm not there and heat it bck up quickly..the radiators never did very well at that. So it's more comfortable to keep it warm 24/7.
And if the tools/floor/tables are heated by radiant, great - but if you have to wear a coat due to air temp it's not comfortable (IMO).
And if the slab is hot, it's unlikely to heat up quickly..so it's going to need to be kept warm 24/7..not efficient to warm an empty space.
And if takes 50,000 BTU to warm/maintain temps, does it matter what the method is? Cost wise to make the heat will vary by fuel, but 50k btu is 50k btu. Now can a radiant heater FEEL more comfortable over force air (or vice versa) with less BTU being used for heating?
THAT is the question
prof fate
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How warm is comfortable varies by person, and perhaps time of day, and activity.
You can sleep in a 60f room just fine. Sit in one and watch TV for 3 hours and you won't be comfortable.
Water temp of radiant is one thing - but how much radiant material is in a room matters as much or more as well. A smaller room gets less than a bigger room of course, but does it in the floor do as well under furniture? You'd not run it under the tub or kitchen cabinets, right? So what about a bedoorm or living room? Under the room perimiter would be under the tv, sofa, etc.
You can sleep in a 60f room just fine. Sit in one and watch TV for 3 hours and you won't be comfortable.
Water temp of radiant is one thing - but how much radiant material is in a room matters as much or more as well. A smaller room gets less than a bigger room of course, but does it in the floor do as well under furniture? You'd not run it under the tub or kitchen cabinets, right? So what about a bedoorm or living room? Under the room perimiter would be under the tv, sofa, etc.
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ovrszd
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All of this is good discussion.
Being new to it I can't speak to it I can't speak to operational cost efficiency.
The pipe in my shop is equal lengths of loops. No attention paid to location since it's one large room. The entire floor is covered equally. Outside perimeter pipe is about a foot from the outside edge of concrete.
The pipe in the house slab looped more with area of the house in mind. With valves on the manifold I think I can regulate general temp in certain areas. We'll see I guess.
In regards to piping under furniture or kitchen cabinets etc. You must understand the goal which is to uniformly heat the slab. As in the shop the house slab is consistently piped.
In regards to comfort. Nothing I have encountered compares to this type of heat. It's the most non-intrusive heat I've saw. My current house has electric baseboard. I like it. When it cycles you'll hear a "tink" sound as the heater expands. If the TV is on or a conversation happening you'll never hear it. No draft. No temp rise and fall. With this heat there's nothing. It's so quiet in here right now my ears are ringing.
My current shop has forced air and wood stove. When I get back home I'll take some temp readings of various areas. I kust did that here. The floor is 72.8F. The ceiling is 70.1F. The thermostat says 70F. Not sure when the system ran last. The manifolds in/out are the same temp.
I spend a lot of time in my shop(s). I go in the house to eat and sleep. My old shop hasn't been under 60F since it was built. I don't want fluctuating temps or a system with a quick temp rise. My old shop's thermostat is set on 65F. New shop is set on 67F. Old shop feels like the humidity is higher. New shop air feels very comfortable.
I can't explain Hydronic Radiant Floor Heat to someone that's not experienced it.
I'm not pimping it or trying to convince anyone. I'm simply trying to express it. I've claimed my one concern which is temp rise during the day. It's a much smaller spread as the outside temps are colder. Low last night was 12F. High today was 27F. Hard winds for the past 30 hours. Half of that time they were 30mph with 40-45mph gusts. I think the smaller fluctuation is heat loss from the building.
Being new to it I can't speak to it I can't speak to operational cost efficiency.
The pipe in my shop is equal lengths of loops. No attention paid to location since it's one large room. The entire floor is covered equally. Outside perimeter pipe is about a foot from the outside edge of concrete.
The pipe in the house slab looped more with area of the house in mind. With valves on the manifold I think I can regulate general temp in certain areas. We'll see I guess.
In regards to piping under furniture or kitchen cabinets etc. You must understand the goal which is to uniformly heat the slab. As in the shop the house slab is consistently piped.
In regards to comfort. Nothing I have encountered compares to this type of heat. It's the most non-intrusive heat I've saw. My current house has electric baseboard. I like it. When it cycles you'll hear a "tink" sound as the heater expands. If the TV is on or a conversation happening you'll never hear it. No draft. No temp rise and fall. With this heat there's nothing. It's so quiet in here right now my ears are ringing.
My current shop has forced air and wood stove. When I get back home I'll take some temp readings of various areas. I kust did that here. The floor is 72.8F. The ceiling is 70.1F. The thermostat says 70F. Not sure when the system ran last. The manifolds in/out are the same temp.
I spend a lot of time in my shop(s). I go in the house to eat and sleep. My old shop hasn't been under 60F since it was built. I don't want fluctuating temps or a system with a quick temp rise. My old shop's thermostat is set on 65F. New shop is set on 67F. Old shop feels like the humidity is higher. New shop air feels very comfortable.
I can't explain Hydronic Radiant Floor Heat to someone that's not experienced it.
I'm not pimping it or trying to convince anyone. I'm simply trying to express it. I've claimed my one concern which is temp rise during the day. It's a much smaller spread as the outside temps are colder. Low last night was 12F. High today was 27F. Hard winds for the past 30 hours. Half of that time they were 30mph with 40-45mph gusts. I think the smaller fluctuation is heat loss from the building.