Battery question (using two)

[Richard]

I have two items, backhoe and tractor. Both are going to need a battery soon.

I've never been exposed to 6V batteries until recently reading about them and some pros/cons they may or may not have.

One thing I noticed is they're essentially half the width of a 12V battery.

THEN, I find that you can get a 12V battery in the same or substantially similar format of the thin 6 volt. This is now getting interesting to me.

Where does one go to do their best on getting a FRESH battery? What I'm wondering is what are the merits of buying four 12V batteries, two for each machine (the backhoe has historically been TERRIBLE on batteries, absolutely terrible).

Anyway, the backhoe will start "right now" within what sounds like 3/4 of a single revolution. It really seems to be an easy/fast starter IF it's spun hard. With the constant weakening of the batteries I have, it loses its spin....so am wondering if TWO 12V batteries might keep it happy longer.

With regard to the tractor (International 1066) it's new to me so I don't know it's propensities. It's currently a poor (hard) starter but, the battery that came with it is about seven years old and at the first sign of a chilly night, it loses its charge.

I'm still looking.....can you buy a 12V battery that has the side / screw on posts IN ADDITION to the traditional posts on top?

What I'd like to consider doing (unless it's somehow a bad idea) is buy one battery with the screw on post, a second batter with BOTH. Put them side by side and screw a short jumper between them (parallel) and then take the traditional post to my existing mounting points.

Thoughts??

 

[4570Man]

I wouldn’t wire it on 24 volts. The starter probably won’t take it very long. I don’t know what the advantage of two say 500 cca battery’s over one 1000 cca battery would be. If the backhoe is killing the battery either fix the problem, take the cables off, or put a maintainer on of. A million cca battery won’t stand up to a continuous load very long.

 

[Richard]

Maybe I'm misunderstanding... (?)

I thought if you took two 12V batteries and had them in parallel (verses series) you'd maintain 12 volts and would just have more of it.

Regarding the backhoe... I've had the alternator to the shop probably 4-5 times over it's life (had it for pushing 18 years?) and it always comes back with a clean bill of health. I seem to recall hearing that british machines (JCB) have funky electronics (shrugs shoulders)

I've been looking into a maintainer too.

 

[Gary Fowler]

I have two items, backhoe and tractor. Both are going to need a battery soon.

I've never been exposed to 6V batteries until recently reading about them and some pros/cons they may or may not have.

One thing I noticed is they're essentially half the width of a 12V battery.

THEN, I find that you can get a 12V battery in the same or substantially similar format of the thin 6 volt. This is now getting interesting to me.

Where does one go to do their best on getting a FRESH battery? What I'm wondering is what are the merits of buying four 12V batteries, two for each machine (the backhoe has historically been TERRIBLE on batteries, absolutely terrible).

Anyway, the backhoe will start "right now" within what sounds like 3/4 of a single revolution. It really seems to be an easy/fast starter IF it's spun hard. With the constant weakening of the batteries I have, it loses its spin....so am wondering if TWO 12V batteries might keep it happy longer.

With regard to the tractor (International 1066) it's new to me so I don't know it's propensities. It's currently a poor (hard) starter but, the battery that came with it is about seven years old and at the first sign of a chilly night, it loses its charge.

I'm still looking.....can you buy a 12V battery that has the side / screw on posts IN ADDITION to the traditional posts on top?

What I'd like to consider doing (unless it's somehow a bad idea) is buy one battery with the screw on post, a second batter with BOTH. Put them side by side and screw a short jumper between them (parallel) and then take the traditional post to my existing mounting points.

Thoughts??

For the 1066, I seem to remember that those 6 volt batteries (2) had a lot more CCA than you could ever find in one 12 volt. I suppose if you could find a 850 CCA 12 volt battery that would fit in the battery box, then hook 2 of them together (parallel) so you still have only 12 volts, it would turn the engine longer and faster. Pricewise, I don't know what you would be looking at comparing 2 ea 6 volt to 2 each 12 volt other than any standard lead/acid 12 volt 850 CCA battery is going to be minimum of $120 each. I haven't seen the long 6 volt batteries used in tractors in several decades.

You may have to buy some longer battery cables in order to hook up the batteries correctly.
Again, if your tractor is eating batteries, you need to find out what is draining them down. Parasitic current draw will kill any battery or series of batteries over time.

 

[WranglerX]

Want real cold cranking capacity, get away to flooded cell and go AGM...

Odyssey Extreme Batteries - YouTube

ODYSSEY Battery - Extreme Series

Have one in Jeep with electric winch... Winch sucked battery so low alternator could not keep up and it killed engine (volt meter said 8 volts)... Let sit and cool about about 10 minutes was able to start Jeep... That was awesome...

Only battery I know of that comes with owners manual...

Also there is...

Car and Deep Cycle Battery FAQ, Battery Manufacturers and Brand Names List, and

And yes some series batteries come combo (both top and side post)....

Dale

 

[newbury]

What are you running for oil?

When I changed from dino to rotella T6 it made a big difference in cranking ease.

 

[4570Man]

Maybe I'm misunderstanding... (?)

I thought if you took two 12V batteries and had them in parallel (verses series) you'd maintain 12 volts and would just have more of it.

Regarding the backhoe... I've had the alternator to the shop probably 4-5 times over it's life (had it for pushing 18 years?) and it always comes back with a clean bill of health. I seem to recall hearing that british machines (JCB) have funky electronics (shrugs shoulders)

I've been looking into a maintainer too.

You can maintain 12 volts and you will double ( or pretty close) the amperage. But if the batteries were smaller to begin with you haven’t gained much. You also involve more wires and connections to cause trouble.

 

[TractorGuy]

I am planning to add a second battery to my backhoe. It was an option on the ones that came with block heaters. In the factory configuration New Holland had a frame that had one battery on top of the other, not touching of course. I have installed new solder on cable ends, new starter, new battery, and new alternator. I also glued a solar maintainer on the hood to keep the battery fresh. Made sure all connections are clean and tight and it still spins sluggish unless I connect jumper cables to my truck then it spins like a top. The fact that cables connected from one battery to another verifies my existing cables on the tractor are okay and it just needs more cranking amps than the one battery can provide. I get away with the single battery all summer but first cold snap and I have to leave the grill off so I can jump it.

 

[Richard]

What are you running for oil?

When I changed from dino to rotella T6 it made a big difference in cranking ease.

Rotella is all I know

 

[LouNY]

Maybe I'm misunderstanding... (?)

I thought if you took two 12V batteries and had them in parallel (verses series) you'd maintain 12 volts and would just have more of it.

Regarding the backhoe... I've had the alternator to the shop probably 4-5 times over it's life (had it for pushing 18 years?) and it always comes back with a clean bill of health. I seem to recall hearing that british machines (JCB) have funky electronics (shrugs shoulders)

I've been looking into a maintainer too.

Correct battery's in parallel stay the same voltage, in series it adds up.
If you decide to run two batteries in parallel I would recommend a solenoid / relay between them, otherwise one can drain the other and with two low batteries it can be difficult to get them boosted enough for a start.
The old 1066's were not the best starting tractor in the cold, synthetic oil will help.
Also you may want to look into a new gear reduction starter, it will spin her over faster which will make for better starts.

 

[txndncowboy]

A battery maintainer is by far your best bet. I have been shocked at the number of years batteries last now that I use maintainers.

 

[bcp]

Battery sizes and terminal configuration:

Battery-Web.com - BCI Group Numbers, Dimensional Specifications, Polarity and Terminals

Bruce

 

[def38]

The suggestion of the Odyssey battery is a good one however, AGM batteries prefer a slightly higher charging voltage than FLA or SLA batteries. My Odyssey is almost 10 years old and still has original output. It is maintained by a dedicated AGM charger. The slightly higher voltage spins the starter vigorously regardless of temperature.

Next, I would suggest a good smart battery charger to maintain your batteries. I have four of them and they are always connected to my various batteries. Extra CCA or two parallel is the expensive route. Good battery chargers will solve your issues while extending battery life considerably.

Diesel engines like to be spun fast when starting cold. One fully charged battery of the correct size is all that is needed.

As for hard to start engines, go to the lowest viscosity engine oil possible for the temperature/service. Reduce the rheological load (Cold engine and transmission oils or the molasses in January affect) to the extent possible by disengaging the gearbox or depressing the clutch.

Synthetic oils will improve cold engine cranking (lower pour point) while improving lubrication.

 

[def38]

A battery maintainer is by far your best bet. I have been shocked at the number of years batteries last now that I use maintainers.

Agreed.

My 18 year old Windstar required only one battery replacement in its lifetime. I used a smart charger on it routinely. Never failed to start the engine.

 

[WranglerX]

Correct battery's in parallel stay the same voltage, in series it adds up.
If you decide to run two batteries in parallel I would recommend a solenoid / relay between them, otherwise one can drain the other and with two low batteries it can be difficult to get them boosted enough for a start.
The old 1066's were not the best starting tractor in the cold, synthetic oil will help.
Also you may want to look into a new gear reduction starter, it will spin her over faster which will make for better starts.

Just be sure solenoid is energized (to connect batteries ) all the time key is "ON"....

But if you re going to use solenoid as battery disconnect how are you going to use battery maintainer (charger) to charge (maintain) "second" battery....

One concept or other but not both...

Dale

 

[Texasmark]

I don't understand parallel batteries discharging each other......like to zero if that's what's implied. If they are functioning batteries that will hold a charge on their own, and they will achieve a happy medium when the energy stored in each is equal then I have no comment. If not, where's the mechanism for the discharge?

 

[WranglerX]

I don't understand parallel batteries discharging each other......like to zero if that's what's implied. If they are functioning batteries that will hold a charge on their own, and they will achieve a happy medium when the energy stored in each is equal then I have no comment. If not, where's the mechanism for the discharge?

IF batteries are replaced in pairs there should not be any problem one new and one old battery, not a good recipe for success....

Like Texasmark stated batteries in parallel should not cause parasitic drain on each other... Batteries and battery strings in parallel is a accepted practice in many industries, why should it be wrong for tractors...

Dale

 

[LouNY]

Paired batteries in occasionally used equipment is a problem when one battery starts going down the other will equalize to it, so with one good and one poor you end up with 2 poor. If used frequently so both are kept well charged it's not an issue, let them sit for a week in the winter and it may well not start.

 

[gimmodog]

if you think you need the extra CCA then go for it. Install a smart charger with them to make them both last a long time then you wouldn't have to worry about one drawing the others voltage down

 

[ns_in_tex]

Just a thought.
My experience on one tractor we owned, that had no preheat.
Always was slow to start in cold, and sometimes when not so cold, since new.
Bought new battery, not much help.
Bought bigger battery, not much help.
Pulled starter, had a stuck brush.
Boy, can't believe we didn't look at starter sooner.
Sure would have saved a lot of grief.