6 volt starter damage by 12 volt system

[09112]

Some time ago I read several posts about damage to 6v starters when used in a 12v system. The posts discussed damage to the fly wheel end of the starter and methods to avoid the damage. As I remember one of the solutions was to weld something to the end of the starter but I can't remember the actual fix. Can anyone help me on this?

 

[LouNY]

We still have two tractors in use with 6 volt starters getting fed with 12 volt systems, an Farmall H and a 400. We have not made any modifications to the starters. In the same vein I'm putting 24 volts on my dynahoes 12 volt starter with no apparent issues.

 

[plowhog]

Just don't spin them too long and they should be OK. If the motor doesn't fire, let the starter rest a bit then try it again.

 

[cqaigy2]

Not a tractor, but converted my cj1 to 12 volts. The 6 volt starter lasted for years.

 

[George2615]

I have converted a few classic cars and a tractor or two from 6V to 12V and kept the 6V starter. As mentioned as long as you don't crank them for a long time you will be fine. Cranking too long will make them overheat. I found that using the 6V starter on the classic cars makes them start easier.

 

[WranglerX]

Used 6 volt starters on 12 volts on aircooled VW's for years with no ill effects, even if they self destruct there is ton of used 6 volt starters available really cheap....

Dale

 

[Industrial Toys]

Probably they endure twice the rated voltage only because things used to be over built. I dropped in at my mechanic the other day. He was holding a brand new starter, for a 350 engine, and commented how small the new starters are. Just, barely enough, is the way things are now.

 

[09112]

Thanks for the input guys. The problem I was referring to was the reported starter "end" being damaged by the apparent slamming of the drive gear. It was reported several times by people saying the end of the starter was totally destroyed. Following those posts there were solutions put forth by others that had experienced the same problem. However, if most of you are not experiencing this then I will be comfortable with that and assume it is not a common problem. Thanks again.

 

[George2615]

Thanks for the input guys. The problem I was referring to was the reported starter "end" being damaged by the apparent slamming oft the drive gear. It was reported several times by people saying the end of the starter was totally destroyed. Following those posts there were solutions put forth by others that had experienced the same problem. However, if most of you are not experiencing this then I will be comfortable with that and assume it is not a common problem. Thanks again.

All the starters I've seen have a small collar on the shaft that the bendix drive will hit when it flies out so it doesn't contact the cast aluminum bell end of the starter. Never had one destroy the starter end.

 

[KennyG]

There may be specific starter designs this is a problem with, but I know of several tractors that were converted to 12 volt at least 50 years ago and still have the original starter (perhaps with a brush replacement). Never heard of one failing the drive.

 

[Travelover]

All the starters I've seen have a small collar on the shaft that the bendix drive will hit when it flies out so it doesn't contact the cast aluminum bell end of the starter. Never had one destroy the starter end.

Have you tried a Google site specific (this site) search?

 

[California]

I found that using the 6V starter on the classic cars makes them start easier.

12 volts helps start junkers too. I had an extremely ratted out $500 Willys Wagon that somebody had put a 259 Studebaker V8 into long ago. (Those bolt up to Jeep transmission). 12 volts on its original 6 volt starter spun it like crazy and it started instantly. I doubt it would have started easily with 6 volts.

6 volt starters have windings and electrical components rated for double the current (to arrive at the same watts of cranking power) so they should be pretty indestructible.

The extra voltage may, as the OP noted, cause the bendix to slam hard into the ring gear or into the ring at the end of its travel but damage seems rare.

 

[09112]

I thank you all for your feedback. The general consensus is "no damage". Perhaps I misunderstood the posts, but having aired this post for the past three days it would give any reader ample time to speak. I'll just put this to bed and not worry about any perceived consequences. Thanks again.

 

[Travelover]

I thank you all for your feedback. The general consensus is "no damage". Perhaps I misunderstood the posts, but having aired this post for the past three days it would give any reader ample time to speak. I'll just put this to bed and not worry about any perceived consequences. Thanks again.

Like I said above, you can use Google to search only this site - using the right key words you can find just about anything.

 

[09112]

Thanks, Travelover, I did, in fact, Google the problem after closing the post. I found most of the posts agreed with the consensus on this forum. I did, however, find one entry that stated most emphaticaly that 'when this damage occurs, and it will', he then gave his fix. This was the only entry that I saw with a brief scan so I will just get on with the job and handle the problem if and when it occurs. This is just a restoration job of a piece of rust that sat totally exposed for years and I wanted to see if I could dismantle, paint, restore, and reassemble in a reasonable manner. Unfortunately, I went into this thing with no knowledge of costs involved and have learned a hard lesson. Hopefully it will be running in a couple weeks and then either park in front of my work shop or be sold to a passerby. It's a 48 Allis B, and is of no use to me other than completing my bucket list.

 

[09112]

Travelover, after looking at your post the second time I realize I misread it on both occasions. I did, in fact, search this site prior to making my post, but obviously didn't come up with the correct "search words". Having made my post I realized that the search of this problem would only give me the "fix" that I wanted and I would have missed the discussion of the different experiences of the members that posted. I guess you could say that I did get my answer in-as-much as most have not seen damage and only one person did. I look at it as though the bias has been removed. Thanks again for your posts.

 

[Travelover]

Travelover, after looking at your post the second time I realize I misread it on both occasions. I did, in fact, search this site prior to making my post, but obviously didn't come up with the correct "search words". ....

The point I should have emphasized is that the search engine here is much harder to use than going straight to Google and using their site specific search function. I've found all kinds of great advice that way. Glad you found your answer.

 

[09112]

I put a 12V battery w/650cc amps, (550cc is the recommended minimum), into my Allis B, using a 6v starter. Had the starter serviced with a new switch included. The biggest cable the parts store had was a number 4 wire and they suggested this would be adequate. It turned the motor well for a few seconds then lost power. My question: Do I need bigger wire or do I have another problem? Allis B has 7-1 compression and can be turned easily with crank. My first take would be to get a larger wire. Any comments?

 

[jaxs]

What he ^^^^ said or the starter may have overheated and give up altogeather through no fault of 12 volts.

 

[California]

I put a 12V battery w/650cc amps, (550cc is the recommended minimum), into my Allis B, using a 6v starter. Had the starter serviced with a new switch included. The biggest cable the parts store had was a number 4 wire and they suggested this would be adequate. It turned the motor well for a few seconds then lost power. My question: Do I need bigger wire or do I have another problem? Allis B has 7-1 compression and can be turned easily with crank. My first take would be to get a larger wire. Any comments?

Try it again and see if that new wire is too hot to touch. If not, then the wire isn't the problem. Touch all the connections looking for one that got hot.