atsah
Elite Member
This tractor sounds like it might be an electrical nightmare for its whole life. We purchase new for a reason, I wouldn’t be too happy if it were me.
Problem with Starting New DK4510
- Thread starter Haneyrm
- Start date
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Threepoint
Veteran Member
- Joined
- Feb 13, 2014
- Messages
- 2,233
- Location
- No. VA
- Tractor
- Kubota B2150HST w/ LA350 loader, Kubota GF1800 HST, Kioti CK3510SE HST w/ KL4030 loader, Kioti NX4510HST/cab w/ KL6010 loader
OP, sorry you're going through such a hassle with your new tractor. It sounds like the dealer and Kioti are trying to make it right, but that doesn't lessen the frustration and inconvenience. Or your absolute right to be angry!
I must say, though, that some of the comments you've been getting in this thread have gone from the sublime to the ridiculous. Well-intentioned perhaps, despite the catty brand sniping, but it's pretty clear some reflect a marginal to no understanding of the legal and practical issues involved. As Paul Simon said: "...misinformation followed us like a plague."
I agree with Coyote Machine's comments, for the most part. Especially that you are being misled by folks popping off about "lemon laws", expecting a new tractor at this stage of the repair effort, or a risk of having the dealer and manufacturer "run out the clock" by taking so long to resolve the problem.
You give your location as Tennessee, and I'm assuming you bought the tractor there. Tennessee's "lemon law" does not apply to tractors, so forget that. On the state level, your legal rights are found under the Tennessee UCC. On the federal level, the Magnuson-Moss Act applies, as you bought your tractor for personal use, and it is therefore a "consumer product". So you have that protection as well. For you to "run out" the time limitation for either a UCC or a Magnuson-Moss claim, you'd have to sit on your hands for up to four years, which is the statute of limitation for breach of contract for the sale of goods in Tennessee. Your tractor may indeed eventually turn out to be a "lemon", but it is not at risk of turning into a pumpkin.
I must say, though, that some of the comments you've been getting in this thread have gone from the sublime to the ridiculous. Well-intentioned perhaps, despite the catty brand sniping, but it's pretty clear some reflect a marginal to no understanding of the legal and practical issues involved. As Paul Simon said: "...misinformation followed us like a plague."
I agree with Coyote Machine's comments, for the most part. Especially that you are being misled by folks popping off about "lemon laws", expecting a new tractor at this stage of the repair effort, or a risk of having the dealer and manufacturer "run out the clock" by taking so long to resolve the problem.
You give your location as Tennessee, and I'm assuming you bought the tractor there. Tennessee's "lemon law" does not apply to tractors, so forget that. On the state level, your legal rights are found under the Tennessee UCC. On the federal level, the Magnuson-Moss Act applies, as you bought your tractor for personal use, and it is therefore a "consumer product". So you have that protection as well. For you to "run out" the time limitation for either a UCC or a Magnuson-Moss claim, you'd have to sit on your hands for up to four years, which is the statute of limitation for breach of contract for the sale of goods in Tennessee. Your tractor may indeed eventually turn out to be a "lemon", but it is not at risk of turning into a pumpkin.
I think Coyote's response is the most reasonable, direct solution.
I'm in IT and my experience is that the quickest way to fix things where there are incompetent middle-men is by persistently escalating upward.
Mechanics replace parts and have no concern for next week.
Managers have concern for costs at their level and may try to cut corners.
The people at the top can see that an "expensive" fix is far cheaper then an on-going bad reputation at either the deal or brand level.
So document everything, be polite but persistent, and if you get nowhere, go straight over the heads of whoever you are dealing with. After all, this is your tractor and money and you should have no concern for who is going to get pissed off.
I'm in IT and my experience is that the quickest way to fix things where there are incompetent middle-men is by persistently escalating upward.
Mechanics replace parts and have no concern for next week.
Managers have concern for costs at their level and may try to cut corners.
The people at the top can see that an "expensive" fix is far cheaper then an on-going bad reputation at either the deal or brand level.
So document everything, be polite but persistent, and if you get nowhere, go straight over the heads of whoever you are dealing with. After all, this is your tractor and money and you should have no concern for who is going to get pissed off.
Thanks for the comments and recommendations guys. Earlier this week, I had decided I was either going to get this tractor to start or beat it into submission with a sledge hammer.
The battery is good. I took it out and had it load tested just to eliminate the simple stuff. I had the wife hold the key in the start position while I went through the engine compartment and tugged on every wire and connection I could find. Nothing. Finally out of frustration I took the key and cycled it to the start position about 20 times as fast as I could and on one of the last tries I heard a click. Now, this is the first noise the tractor has made in 2 weeks. So again, I cycled the key switch about 20 more times and held the key in the start position once I heard another click. This time, the tractor would sit for 5 seconds doing nothing and it would eventually make a grunt like it was trying to engage the starter. The grunt would last for a fraction of a second and then nothing again for 5 seconds. Cycled the key another 20 times and this time the tractor actually turned over for a fraction of a second. Not long enough to start but at least it did engage the starter. Held the key in the start position and got a few more grunts and then nothing again. Another 20 cycles of the key and while holding in the start position, the tractor would turn over for a fraction of a second and then nothing. 5 seconds later, it would turn over again for a fraction of a second and then go silent. After going through this sequence about 8 times, the starter finally engaged long enough to start the tractor. Yee ha. But wait, the CEL is lit and won't go out. ******. Ready the 10lb sledge. I reluctantly shut the tractor off and re-gathered my thoughts. Decided to try to start it again. Turn key, nothing. Hold key in start position for 5 seconds hoping something would happen and the tractor finally cranked over and started. This time, no CEL and everything seems to be running fine. Decide to run the tractor and use it for a few hours. No problem.
When the tractor would not initially start before this whole episode started, the first thing I did was replace the starter switch and it did nothing. It sure seems like the starter switch is acting up. I'm wondering if I have a bad coincidence where the starter switch just so happened to become a problem after replacement of the ECM. Spoke to dealer and he wants to pick tractor up again to keep working on it. That's fine and all but last time he had it for a month and it cost me $100 transportation fee to pick it up. I'm not really feeling good about this.
About 2 hours into mowing I noticed a severe vibration. Tractor has always been super smooth (when it actually runs). I assumed I had grass clumped up in the deck since it was wet and something was out of balance. The vibration was shaking the entire tractor so much it was hard to see straight. First instinct was to shut down the PTO. Flip the PTO switch, mower stops but the shaking remains. Nice. Jumped off the machine to see if it was anything obvious. Nothing jumped out at me other than the entire machine shaking. At this point, I'm pretty much about to give up so I took the tractor and parked it. When I dropped the 3 point, the shaking stopped. Interesting. Lift the mower using the 3 point lever and the entire tractor is shaking again. Drop it to the ground and everything smooths out. Whenever the 3 point has a load on it, the tractor is shaking. Looked closely at the 3 point and noticed that the lift arms were jumping up & down and almost fluttering. This fluttering was shaking the entire tractor. Shut it down and checked the hydraulic oil level. Showing on the stick so it seems like the fluid is fine. One problem to the next. Anybody got any ideas what may be causing the 3 point arms to flutter like that? Tractor is not really usable like this.
I'm starting to think this tractor purchase was a mistake. This is my 3rd new tractor. Kubota with 800 hours and not a single problem. New Holland with 1400 hours and not a single problem. Kioti with 28 hours and nothing but problems. This just doesn't make any sense and my confidence in this tractor is pretty much shot at this point.
The battery is good. I took it out and had it load tested just to eliminate the simple stuff. I had the wife hold the key in the start position while I went through the engine compartment and tugged on every wire and connection I could find. Nothing. Finally out of frustration I took the key and cycled it to the start position about 20 times as fast as I could and on one of the last tries I heard a click. Now, this is the first noise the tractor has made in 2 weeks. So again, I cycled the key switch about 20 more times and held the key in the start position once I heard another click. This time, the tractor would sit for 5 seconds doing nothing and it would eventually make a grunt like it was trying to engage the starter. The grunt would last for a fraction of a second and then nothing again for 5 seconds. Cycled the key another 20 times and this time the tractor actually turned over for a fraction of a second. Not long enough to start but at least it did engage the starter. Held the key in the start position and got a few more grunts and then nothing again. Another 20 cycles of the key and while holding in the start position, the tractor would turn over for a fraction of a second and then nothing. 5 seconds later, it would turn over again for a fraction of a second and then go silent. After going through this sequence about 8 times, the starter finally engaged long enough to start the tractor. Yee ha. But wait, the CEL is lit and won't go out. ******. Ready the 10lb sledge. I reluctantly shut the tractor off and re-gathered my thoughts. Decided to try to start it again. Turn key, nothing. Hold key in start position for 5 seconds hoping something would happen and the tractor finally cranked over and started. This time, no CEL and everything seems to be running fine. Decide to run the tractor and use it for a few hours. No problem.
When the tractor would not initially start before this whole episode started, the first thing I did was replace the starter switch and it did nothing. It sure seems like the starter switch is acting up. I'm wondering if I have a bad coincidence where the starter switch just so happened to become a problem after replacement of the ECM. Spoke to dealer and he wants to pick tractor up again to keep working on it. That's fine and all but last time he had it for a month and it cost me $100 transportation fee to pick it up. I'm not really feeling good about this.
About 2 hours into mowing I noticed a severe vibration. Tractor has always been super smooth (when it actually runs). I assumed I had grass clumped up in the deck since it was wet and something was out of balance. The vibration was shaking the entire tractor so much it was hard to see straight. First instinct was to shut down the PTO. Flip the PTO switch, mower stops but the shaking remains. Nice. Jumped off the machine to see if it was anything obvious. Nothing jumped out at me other than the entire machine shaking. At this point, I'm pretty much about to give up so I took the tractor and parked it. When I dropped the 3 point, the shaking stopped. Interesting. Lift the mower using the 3 point lever and the entire tractor is shaking again. Drop it to the ground and everything smooths out. Whenever the 3 point has a load on it, the tractor is shaking. Looked closely at the 3 point and noticed that the lift arms were jumping up & down and almost fluttering. This fluttering was shaking the entire tractor. Shut it down and checked the hydraulic oil level. Showing on the stick so it seems like the fluid is fine. One problem to the next. Anybody got any ideas what may be causing the 3 point arms to flutter like that? Tractor is not really usable like this.
I'm starting to think this tractor purchase was a mistake. This is my 3rd new tractor. Kubota with 800 hours and not a single problem. New Holland with 1400 hours and not a single problem. Kioti with 28 hours and nothing but problems. This just doesn't make any sense and my confidence in this tractor is pretty much shot at this point.
atsah
Elite Member
I have no idea what the 3pt shaking is all about, I wonder if you’re ignition switch is bad, that tractor sounds like a piece of junk and I would be pretty upset about it myself, hope you can get it figured out.
ritcheyvs
Veteran Member
The start circuit on the -10 models is not simple (at least in the RX6010 schematic I have). But the key switch is simple. Had you not already changed the key switch, I would have suggested (at post #2) shooting some WD40 in the key hole and then cycle the switch several times. Dirt and corrosion in this switch is very common and WD40 is usually as effective as cleaning and rebuilding or replacing the switch. So give it a try.
I consider key switch lube with WD40 to be routine preventive maintenance, especially if the tractor is ever stored out in weather. WD40, by the way, is more of a cleaner than a lubricant.
About the shaking, there is a MLS valve sensitivity adjustment for the three-point system to make it responsive but not oscillate. The dealer should know how to check this. Also, do you have a draft control? And was it moved out of the normal down position? Be sure that's not the problem.
I consider key switch lube with WD40 to be routine preventive maintenance, especially if the tractor is ever stored out in weather. WD40, by the way, is more of a cleaner than a lubricant.
About the shaking, there is a MLS valve sensitivity adjustment for the three-point system to make it responsive but not oscillate. The dealer should know how to check this. Also, do you have a draft control? And was it moved out of the normal down position? Be sure that's not the problem.
Last edited:
Coyote machine
Super Member
- Joined
- May 4, 2009
- Messages
- 7,641
- Location
- Southern VT
- Tractor
- 22 SANY SY 50U, '10 Kioti DK 40se/hst KL-401 FEL, loaded tires, KB-2485 bhoe, Tuffline TB160 BB, Woods QA forks, MIE Hydraulic bhoe thumb & ripper tooth, Igland 4001 winch, & GR-20 Log Grapple. Woods BBX72" Brush Mower. Diamondplate aluminum canopy
So if you have no idea(s) about how to resolve the issues with the OP's tractor, maybe go back to the forums where you do have something constructive to add to the discussion. The OP's tractor is clearly not a 'piece of junk' and he needs to listen to those on this thread who can and are actually trying to help him.
The OP is new to this brand and model and it's controls. There is a learning curve and he is in it now. Those familiar with how his levers control the three point can give him guidance so he gets on track.
If his ignition switch is faulty its an easy fix that Kioti owners are familiar with. Again, a simple solution to a simple problem. No need to go nuts just because a few minor issues crop up, and/or overlap. Once they're sorted I can assure the OP he will be happy with his tractor.
One last time on the warranty and its value. One buys new and gets a warranty. Some issues, like intermittent wiring or electronic problems are somewhat more frequent on ALL brands in recent years due to the addition of complex electronics to regulate emissions, etc. Thanks Feds!:thumbdown:
Kioti and all other brands are dealing with these issues. In the case of the key switches they ought to get a different supplier, or do a redesign.
AND, there is a weather protection cap available for the switch through Kioti dealers, that I have on mine. Everyone who stores their tractor outside should have one attached to the housing of the switch. It caps it and keeps the elements out.
atsah
Elite Member
I know you have a Kioti and every thread your involved in you think you know everything about them and you think there Is no way a Kioti tractor could be a lemon.
There is no need to be nasty to other posters, I have seen you do it many times, don't tell me were to post and were not to post. If you don't like what other's have to say move on and mind your own business.
radios1
Elite Member
actually, if he knew so much about Kioti tractors he'd have the problem solved already, apparently, he don't though..
atsah
Elite Member
I'm sure if it was his tractor he would have it all straightened out by now and wouldn't have said a negative word about his beloved Kioti.. Any brand can have issues but some people are brand loyal and think it has to be the operator who needs to learn the "learning curve" of a three point hitch and everything else is a "easy fix"..