Found a coyote, I think

[Raspy]

dragon,

I'm still looking for a coydog. I'll be in touch.

 

[dragoneggs]

dragon,

I'm still looking for a coydog. I'll be in touch.

If you find two, let me know!

 

[Mace Canute]

To everyone who posted a response in this story:

I am actively working on Sandy's book and would like to quote some of your fine comments, but I'd like to have your permission to do so first. Everything from the concerns, to the insights, the fears, the personal experiences, etc, are useful in making points in the story.

Please post that you are OK with me quoting you, or no, if you don't want me to. It can be done as a post or as a PM. I'll use your username and a short quote only, with no other personal information. The quotes will be credited to this blog. These quotes will help to enrich the story and often say things in ways better than I might be able to. They will also add personal experiences from others that re-inforce or go beyond the points I've made.

Thank you all, for all you've contributed!

That's one book I would love to read and I think it would make a GREAT short film too.

 

[Raspy]

Hey Mace, look for my earlier post (number 677). Can I quote you in the book?

 

[GirlWhoWantsTractor]

Sandy is happy and healthy and living with her life partner at Southwest Wildlife Conservation Center in Scottsdale AZ. Still tame and emotionally stable. After not seeing her for several years, she immediately recognized us and gave a wonderful greeting.

So glad to hear this.

I have worked with wild animal rescue for many years. They are much more complex emotionally than most people can understand. They have very different personalities. I could tell you stories you wouldn't believe.....

We should respect nature, but not glorify it. It's tough out there. There's nothing noble about starving, or being torn to pieces and eaten.

We are not so different from animals. For all our trappings of civilization, we are still in nature. We too will someday be taken by a predator--a car, or a cancer, or a person with a gun, or if we're lucky, old age. But we have many protections we didn't have when we lived in caves, and we can choose a *relatively* safe life. Yet some humans still choose to risk death to climb Everest, or race cars, or fight wars.

Wild animals are just out there at the mercy of nature. Some are tough survivors; others seem born to be hawk-bait. Yet some animals would rather die than be in captivity--have seen it. While some actually *choose* captivity and safety. Seen that too. Not so different from us, when given a choice.

The AMAZING thing that happens when a human rescues a wild animal, is that they may actually have a choice.

(Yes, you dialed the number and made the arrangements, but Sandy is happy there. If she weren't, you would have found another solution. So in that sense, she is calling the shots. She is choosing.)

No one who hasn't experienced this can understand. And some folks are hostile to the idea that wild animals are anything but food, targets, or mere objects in a harsh system we call nature.

Just so glad Sandy is happy, and not the least surprised she remembers you even after several years.

 

[Sigarms]

We are not so different from animals. For all our trappings of civilization, we are still in nature. We too will someday be taken by a predator--a car, or a cancer, or a person with a gun, or if we're lucky, old age. But we have many protections we didn't have when we lived in caves, and we can choose a *relatively* safe life. Yet some humans still choose to risk death to climb Everest, or race cars, or fight wars.

Intelligence and technology is a means that man does not always yield responsibly. If that darn couple just wouldn't of eaten from the tree of knowledge, perhaps we'd all be better off.

Off topic, apologies...

 

[STx]

So glad to hear this.

I have worked with wild animal rescue for many years. They are much more complex emotionally than most people can understand. They have very different personalities. I could tell you stories you wouldn't believe.....

We should respect nature, but not glorify it. It's tough out there. There's nothing noble about starving, or being torn to pieces and eaten.

We are not so different from animals. For all our trappings of civilization, we are still in nature. We too will someday be taken by a predator--a car, or a cancer, or a person with a gun, or if we're lucky, old age. But we have many protections we didn't have when we lived in caves, and we can choose a *relatively* safe life. Yet some humans still choose to risk death to climb Everest, or race cars, or fight wars.

Wild animals are just out there at the mercy of nature. Some are tough survivors; others seem born to be hawk-bait. Yet some animals would rather die than be in captivity--have seen it. While some actually *choose* captivity and safety. Seen that too. Not so different from us, when given a choice.

The AMAZING thing that happens when a human rescues a wild animal, is that they may actually have a choice.

(Yes, you dialed the number and made the arrangements, but Sandy is happy there. If she weren't, you would have found another solution. So in that sense, she is calling the shots. She is choosing.)

No one who hasn't experienced this can understand. And some folks are hostile to the idea that animals are anything but food, targets, or mere objects in a harsh system we call nature.

Just so glad Sandy is happy, and not the least surprised she remembers you even after several years.

This is true of domestic animals and livestock as well, my wife and I think the safety and not having to scratch out a meal to survive everyday unlocks the "humanity" in an animal (not that humans are better, just that's the word that best describes it) and gives them the freedom to have the relationships and develop those preferences. People are the same way, we wouldn't be fighting over a lot of the silly nonsense we see on the news every night if we had to worry about putting a roof over our head and finding meal every day.

We have a wild pig, like Eddie but different, lots of people told me he would eat me the first time I turned my back on him. He was mean (scared is a better word) at first but, now he just wants his belly rubbed and he spends his days hanging out with our domestic pigs. He has more personality than anyone would believe and is super intelligent. We've argued this point with people more than once but, animals have souls, they aren't just impulses and instincts.


Beautiful story about the coyote pup, I just saw it today but, despite what a lot of people said in the beginning, I immediately thought it could work out fine for everyone if that pup found the right sorts of people. Seems that this one did.

 

[GirlWhoWantsTractor]

....my wife and I think the safety and not having to scratch out a meal to survive everyday unlocks the "humanity" in an animal (not that humans are better, just that's the word that best describes it) and gives them the freedom to have the relationships and develop those preferences. People are the same way, we wouldn't be fighting over a lot of the silly nonsense we see on the news every night if we had to worry about putting a roof over our head and finding meal every day.....

Yes!

I believe all animals have surprisingly distinct personalities that appear to be at least partly inborn. I have rescued wild'uns that seem like they were "born mean": furless, eyes-closed, yet still trying to bite and snarl. Others seem to be born sweet; they are affectionate, even clingy. Some are naturally timid, some are bold. Some are social; others more independent. Some are more playful. Some have a mischievous streak.

Having the luxury of not having to worry about starving to death or getting eaten gives them a chance to fully develop their personalities, it seems.

After doing this for a lot of years, my final take is, if the animal is truly happy in captivity, and the humans are willing to take care of it properly, I don't see any big tragedy.

These are special circumstances of course. And the Sandy story is definitely one of those.

(If the animal is NOT happy in captivity, then better to release, even if you believe their chances of survival are somewhat reduced for whatever reason. In a very few circumstances, euthanasia is kindest. JMO)

 

[Raspy]

Girl,

Thanks for your thoughtful posts.

In Sandy's case, we simply rescued a little pup that was very close to death and we didn't even realize what she was. We even tried, initially, to return her to the wild after our neighbor had picked her up, but it was a death sentence.

We were very naive and decided to take it day by day and learn about her.

We certainly did learn a lot and we did our best for her.

Initially, I was asking for advice, but eventually it became a drama and a personality study. Along the way, all of the interaction with other members here also became interesting. Interesting too, was the story here at home with friends and neighbors. We raised her as a respected family member, just as we do with our other dogs.

There is so much fear and hate concerning coyotes, and there is a lot of good reasons to be very wary of them too. some have had bad experiences with them and others just don't know what to expect. Many of us are simply curious. Sandy is only one and grew up in a far different setting that the wild ones, so she cant always be used as an example. However, she does exhibit hard wired behavior, a very high intelligence and the desire to be a pack member. Without physical or emotional stress, these characteristics can be out on full display.

The basic question remains: How is a coyote different than a domestic dog?

Sandy has provided a small window into the coyote's world and I'm pleased to share the view.

 

[Sigarms]

The basic question remains: How is a coyote different than a domestic dog?

One is wild and another is domesticated.

Animals are animals, be it they're four legged or two legged.

 

[1010]

There isn't much difference in a dog or a yote, they are all unpredictable give the environment.
I always think of a fool when someone says their dog won't bite.
The next best thing is folks thinking they are doing an animal a favor by putting it in a cage for the rest of it's life.
People talk to dogs like they are humans and yes after enough time dogs understand tone and body English, but the dog won't pay attention to the owner's demands once free if the dog considers himself as master.
The point is dog and yotes only understand one thing and that's who is boss unless they are just locked up in a cage then it's just a inhabitant occupying a space. What joy this must bring, especially to the human that put them there.

 

[Sigarms]

There isn't much difference in a dog or a yote, they are all unpredictable give the environment.

The EXACT same thing can be said for humans.

 

[Raspy]

One is wild and another is domesticated.

Animals are animals, be it they're four legged or two legged.

OK, describing everyone as an animal doesn't discuss our differences. And the differences are what make it interesting.

Sandy became domesticated and I've seen so called domestic dogs that were pretty wild and that I would never trust. Domestic dogs can pack up and take down deer and then revert back to being lap dogs.

So, the more important difference might be whether or not coyotes can be domesticated, such that they can calm down and be trusted. And if they can be, how are they hard wired to act. For instance, Sandy is an analytical game player and initially wary of strangers. She likes to nap and patrol around like a cat. She could play endlessly with me and our other dog, because we all knew the game. She has twice dug her own den. She could spend hours in the car on road trips sleeping peacefully, get out to pee and then jump back in to go again.

Aside from a few traits and appearance, she was a domestic dog in every sense.

And she was never caged until we took her to Southwest. Then it was a matter of kill her or put her in a large enclosure with a life partner. She is very happy and under no stress, so that is the bottom line on judging what was right for her.

 

[Raspy]

The EXACT same thing can be said for humans.

Sure, but this discussion is about one coyote in particular, with some hope we may be curious enough to want to know more about her and other ones. It's not a human study.

It's more accurate to say they are predictable, given the environment, than it is to say they are un-predictable given the environment.

 

[Sigarms]

Sure, but this discussion is about one coyote in particular, with some hope we may be curious enough to want to know more about her and other ones. It's not a human study.

It's more accurate to say they are predictable, given the environment, than it is to say they are un-predictable given the environment.

Take a domesticated dog, and chain it 24/7, and see what the odds are that you change it's behavior per increasing the odds that the animal shows more aggression. THAT'S what I'm refering to per environment and behavior.

 

[Sigarms]

So, the more important difference might be whether or not coyotes can be domesticated, such that they can calm down and be trusted. And if they can be, how are they hard wired to act. For instance, Sandy is an analytical game player and initially wary of strangers. She likes to nap and patrol around like a cat. She could play endlessly with me and our other dog, because we all knew the game. She has twice dug her own den. She could spend hours in the car on road trips sleeping peacefully, get out to pee and then jump back in to go again.

And what if coyotes CAN be domesticated, what are you proposing?

 

[Molalla1]

OK, describing everyone as an animal doesn't discuss our differences. And the differences are what make it interesting.

Sandy became domesticated and I've seen so called domestic dogs that were pretty wild and that I would never trust. Domestic dogs can pack up and take down deer and then revert back to being lap dogs.

So, the more important difference might be whether or not coyotes can be domesticated, such that they can calm down and be trusted. And if they can be, how are they hard wired to act. For instance, Sandy is an analytical game player and initially wary of strangers. She likes to nap and patrol around like a cat. She could play endlessly with me and our other dog, because we all knew the game. She has twice dug her own den. She could spend hours in the car on road trips sleeping peacefully, get out to pee and then jump back in to go again.

Aside from a few traits and appearance, she was a domestic dog in every sense.

And she was never caged until we took her to Southwest. Then it was a matter of kill her or put her in a large enclosure with a life partner. She is very happy and under no stress, so that is the bottom line on judging what was right for her.

You did good Raspy. . .:thumbsup:

 

[GirlWhoWantsTractor]

In Sandy's case, we simply rescued a little pup that was very close to death and we didn't even realize what she was. We even tried, initially, to return her to the wild after our neighbor had picked her up, but it was a death sentence.

This is how it usually happens: you find an orphan needing rescue. Almost no one ASKS for this. It just happens, and then you make the best decisions you can at each point.

 

[1010]

Simple question what would any supposedly domesticated caged animal do if the gate was left open? I'd love to see what the yote in this instance would do. Since we've heard so much about the ridiculous yote utopia it's been doomed to.

Even the pet you own do you have to block it from running out the front door when a visitor arrives?
I mean from running off down the street?


I love it when somebody attempts to speak for an animal like they really know they aren't stressed and happy living in a freaking cage till death. LMAO.

 

[Raspy]

Take a domesticated dog, and chain it 24/7, and see what the odds are that you change it's behavior per increasing the odds that the animal shows more aggression. THAT'S what I'm refering to per environment and behavior.

This is so obvious that it doesn't need to be re-stated. So what? Is there anyone who doesn't know this? The interesting point of this thread is how a coyote responds to care by people, not how a dog can be abused. And I'm not proposing anything. Just interested in learning. It's OK if you're not interested.