Tractor Sizing GUIDE: Shopping/Sizing A Tractor (Version 1.0)

[majorwager]

Post 59 referenced "cheater" engines, when this remark was referenced in post 60, there was a SUDDEN EDIT to post 59. A screenshot clarifies the discrepancy. Copy of original post # 59 was deleted however another cheater reference exists. That post was also later (edited) scrubbed of the cheather reference.

 

[majorwager]

A valuable tool for any tractor buyer is TRACTOR Data .Com. One member in the forums quotes data from this website constantly.

The site owner provides an invaluable tool for TBN members and the entire tractor owning, or contemplating owning general public

I can attest that the owner READS every e mail sent to him, personally. That is dedication, That is commendable. Thank you Peter.

 

[airbiscuit]

A valuable tool for any tractor buyer is TRACTOR Data .Com. One member in the forums quotes data from this website constantly.

The site owner provides an invaluable tool for TBN members and the entire tractor owning, or contemplating owning general public

I can attest that the owner READS every e mail sent to him, personally. That is dedication, That is commendable. Thank you Peter.

I couldn't agree more. :thumbsup:

 

[GirlWhoWantsTractor]

I couldn't agree more. :thumbsup:

Yes, tractordata.com is a great resource!

 

[finn1]

What jeff fails to note is that low sulfur content deprives all diesel engines, w/o regard for tier rating, the Lubricity necessary to reduce unnecessary engine friction.

As engines mature beyond 2011, increased cylinder sleeve wear is recognized directly attributable to the sulfur reduction, Lubricity additives to fuel can effectively reduce this wear)

That information is supposition propaganda manufactured by the sales and marketing arms of the fuel additive industry, aka mouse milk peddlers.

The sulfur reduction actually reduces engine wear, especially in cold operating conditions. Sulfur in the fuel lends itself to the production of sulfuric acid under conditions where there is water vapor (condensation), or cold start. The sulfuric acid attackerç—´ the piston rings and cylinder walls, leading to micro corrosion, and eventually component wear.

 

[majorwager]

finn,
First the sarcastic reference to lubricity additives does NOT enhance the argument. Kindly provide some documentation that sulfur accelerates engine wear in any climate condition, hot or cold? All diesel engines experience "wear" during a cold start. Understand why firms such as Eberspacher are popular w/ many large diesel owners, both on and off road.

Your post doesn't address the "wear" issue, instead it deviates off topic to an elusive sulfuric acid tangent. If there is moisture or water in the diesel, that is a fuel management issue. Examine one fact. Sulfur content in diesel fuel spans many decades, millions of on road miles and also millions of off road operating hours. If sulfur were a deleterious agent, the public would have clamored for removal ages ago.

But since you raise the moisture issue, here is a low sulfur tangible situation. "Sulfur was the natural inhibitor of microbial growth" in diesel fuel. In any sizable fuel storage system, larger that the 5 gallon can, water exists to some degree. Fungus, mold, and bacteria live in the water and diesel fuel is the food source. Now re-read the sentence above!!

The secretions (WASTE) from these tank pests plugged fuel filters among other problems.

Another issue arose. It centered around fuel delivery. DO YOU know exactly how fuel was delivered to your tank or fueling station? Few do. So it is transported by truck, rail, and pipeline. The same vessels that also frequently transport gasoline w/ ethanol . A study by the Clean Diesel Fuel Alliance found that small amounts of Ethal Gasoline was contributing to bacterial contamination in diesel fuel.

This bacteria is called Acetobacter. This bacteria thrives on ethanol and in a diesel environment, produces Acetic Acid which attacked steel tanks, fuel pumps and piping . PH levels were in the 2.5 range.


So now, in current ULSD storage, a biocide agent is necessary to combat this aggressive bacteria. Any NO amount of water in the tank bottom is acceptable. So what did the study conclude? Yes, of course, Sulfur is a bacteria inhibitor and Sulfur levels kept the microbial growth to a minimum. So please elaborate how the sulfur removal enhanced diesel fuel storage, engine fuel lubricity, and promoted engine health longevity?. It has improved the environment, UNDISPUTED, and positive. BUT, there is an old yet relative proverb,

DO NOT THROW OUT THE BABY WITH THE BATH WATER, truer words..... The above issue is much more complex than examined here, but this highlighted summary touches upon just some of the consequences of sulfur removal from diesel fuel.

 

[jeff9366]

WORKING DRAFT (7.3)​

The fundamental importance of TRACTOR WEIGHT eludes many tractor shoppers. Heavier tractor chassis weight is more important for most tractor operations than increased tractor horsepower. Bare tractor weight is a tractor specification easily found in sales brochures and web sites, readily comparable across tractor brands and tractor models, new and used. The most efficient way to shop for tractors is to list tractor applications first, then determine bare tractor weight needed to safely accomplish your tasks.

Within subcompact and compact tractor categories, bare tractor weight must increase 50% before you notice a significant tractor capability increase. It takes a 100% increase in bare tractor weight to elicit MY-OH-MY!

Shop your weight range within tractor brands. Budget will eliminate some choices. Collect a dealer brochure for each tractor model in your weight range. I spreadsheet tractor and implement specs, often a revealing exercise. I have a column for cost per pound.

Most tractors under 3,000 pounds bare weight operate in residential or hobby farm applications on one to ten flat acres. Subcompact and compact tractors under 3,000 pounds will enter a residential garage with typical 84" door height.

Selling a used tractor is easy. Selling multiple light implements in order to buy heavier, wider implements for a heavier tractor requires a lot of time. Depreciation on implements is generally greater than depreciation on a tractor.

Tractors over 3,000 pounds bare weight are generally offered in a utilitarian configuration and a deluxe configuration. Deluxe kit enhances productivity and operating comfort ~~~ but you must pay. Most tractors over 3,000 pounds bare weight are too tall to fit through an 84" height garage door, even with ROPS folded.

Heavier tractors are built on larger frames with larger wheels/tires. A heavier tractor with large diameter tires has more tractive power pulling ground contact implements, pushing a loader bucket into dirt and pushing snow. Large wheels and tires increase ground clearance, enabling a heavier tractor to bridge holes, ruts and downed tree limbs with less bucking and disturbance operating over rough pasture and woodland.



Safe hillside operation demands more tractor weight than level land operation. Heavier tractors have adjustable rear wheel spreads; wide rear wheel spreads hugely improve tractor stability. Four wheel drive is essential on hillsides. Four wheel drive supplies increased traction. When descending slopes 4-WD augments rear brakes as tractor weight shifts forward, decreasing rear tire grip.

Tractors optimized for hill work have liquid installed in the rear tires rather than air. "Loaded" tires are filled 50% to 75% with liquid, which lowers the tractor's center-of-gravity, increasing rollover resistance. "Loading" two compact tractor rear tires will increase tractor weight 300 pounds to 800 pounds over weight of identical two tires inflated with air.



A quality dealer, reasonably close, available for coaching, is important for tractor neophytes. Almost every new tractor is delivered with a glitch or two requiring correction. My kubota dealer is six miles away. I feel my local dealer continues to add value to my equipment. Dealer proximity is less important to those experienced with tractors and qualified to perform their own maintenance.

BUY ENOUGH TRACTOR.​

 

[majorwager]

Xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

 

[majorwager]

Jeffy's whole theme should be labeled "BUY TOO MUCH TRACTOR". If one researches his previous failed attempt at this skewed and biased thread, he received substantial push back from folks that purchased a smaller, lighter tractor and were thrilled w/ the result.

To truly ascertain the validity of this obsessive weight fetish, one need only look at the specification column where the tractor is disected by cost per pound? Perhaps someone is spending too much time in their Whole Foods Store.

There is a place for larger heavy tractors. There is an equally important niche for SCUTS. The OP completely and misleadingly ignores the latter.

Further, the tractor neophyte reference is condescending and downright insulting. Few tractor purchases are essential, but rather discretionary. Suggests buyer has some degree of financial success. and intelligence. If these folks are so inept and unqualified to purchase a tractor, how on earth did they manage the purchase of a home (or two?), automobiles, perhaps a boat, computer, large screen TV, or even underwear.?

Much as it might disappoint the OP, this thread is simply an opinion, to be weighed against all the other opinions and market forces on T-B-N and the many other arenas that may or may NOT influence a tractor purchase.

EDIT:

Post #11 offers an excellent counter-perspective. Certainly worth attention.

jeffy claims he put 500 hrs on a previous tractor, Many folks operate a tractor 100 hrs annually or less.
So can needs and tasks change five years hence? Does everyone purchase the same automobile after 5 years use? Should one purchase a one ton duel wheel pick up because one day they may one day own a 5th wheel camper.

BUY TOO MUCH TRACTOR, even if it is NOT necessary.

A different perspective.

 

[majorwager]

I think your connection between weight and safety\stability is not valid at all.. or really even your hyper focus on weight as a significant buying factor. It's more about balance, proper ballast, etc. You need weighti n the right places, not just tonnage. Wheel spacers are known to make a HUGE stability difference and are much more effective than simply having more weight. dollars\pound is a terrible way to buy a tractor.

Messick's is a valued and revered informational source on TBN.

 

[jeff9366]

WORKING DRAFT (7.4)​

The fundamental importance of TRACTOR WEIGHT eludes many tractor shoppers. Heavier tractor weight is more important for most tractor operations than increased tractor horsepower. Bare tractor weight is a tractor specification easily found in sales brochures and web sites, readily comparable across tractor brands and tractor models, new and used. The most efficient way to shop for tractors is to define potential tractor applications first, then determine bare tractor weight needed to safely accomplish your tasks.

Within subcompact and compact tractor categories, bare tractor weight must increase 50% before you notice a significant tractor capability increase. It takes a 100% increase in bare tractor weight to elicit MY-OH-MY!

Shop your weight range within tractor brands. Budget will eliminate some choices. Collect a dealer brochure for each tractor model in your weight range. I spreadsheet tractor and implement specs, often a revealing exercise. I have a column for cost per pound.

Most tractors under 3,000 pounds bare weight operate in residential or hobby farm applications on one to ten flat acres. Subcompact and compact tractors under 3,000 pounds will enter a residential garage with typical 84" door height.

Selling a used tractor is easy. Selling multiple light implements in order to buy heavier, wider implements for a heavier tractor requires a lot of time. Depreciation on implements is generally greater than depreciation on a tractor.

Tractors over 3,000 pounds bare weight are generally offered in a economy configuration and a deluxe configuration. Deluxe kit enhances productivity and operating comfort ~~~ but you must pay. Many tractors over 3,000 pounds bare weight are too tall to fit through an 84" height garage door, even with ROPS folded.

Heavier tractors are constructed on larger frames and are built using thicker steel which can stand high stress. Heavier tractors have larger wheels/tires. A heavier tractor with large diameter tires has more tractive power pulling ground contact implements, pushing a loader bucket into dirt and pushing snow. Large wheels and tires increase ground clearance, enabling a heavier tractor to bridge holes, ruts and tree debris with less bucking and less operator disturbance.



Safe hillside operation demands more tractor weight than level land operation. Heavier tractors have adjustable rear wheel spreads; wide rear wheel spreads hugely improve tractor stability. Four wheel drive is essential on hillsides. Four wheel drive supplies increased traction. When descending slopes 4-WD augments rear brakes as tractor weight shifts forward, decreasing rear tire grip.

Compact tractors optimized for hill work have liquid installed in the rear tires rather than air. "Loaded" tires are filled 50% to 75% with liquid, which lowers the tractor's center-of-gravity, increasing rollover resistance. "Loading" two compact tractor rear tires will increase tractor weight 300 pounds to 800 pounds over weight of identical two tires inflated with air.



A quality dealer, reasonably close, available for coaching, is important for tractor neophytes. Almost every new tractor is delivered with a glitch or two requiring correction. My kubota dealer is six miles away. I feel my local dealer continues to add value to my equipment. Dealer proximity is less important to those experienced with tractors and qualified to perform their own maintenance.

BUY ENOUGH TRACTOR.​

 

[majorwager]

Xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

There is pushback in Buying Too Much Tractor. The excessive weight mantra is NOT Universally shared and supported.

 

[majorwager]

Here is a point lost on jeffy,
Messick's submitted a relative post recently,stating that effective operating weight is NOT achieved by piling on a bunch of attachments to your tractor. Just like people, weight in the wrong place is just simply ineffective.

Yes, a loader technically is included in operating weight, but is is not as beneficial as a tractor w/ an manufactured bare weight. Jeffy even includes the bucket as oper wt when often the bucket is engaged and actuality part of the load or resistance.

A manufacturer designs a tractor to accommodate a FEL, not as a necessity. So in writing a tractor encyclopedia as DIg has labeled it, there is a basic premise to remember.

If a heavy tractor is desired or warranted, that goal is best accomplished through the factory bare tractor and the addition of attachments and implements might technically increase the operating weight, it is often NOT the best means to EFFECTIVELY increase weight.

With that said, I reinforce that smaller lighter tractors accomplish amazing tasks and being saddled with unnecessary additional cost burden results in paying for too much tractor.

So If we lead by example, why DIDN'T the OP and reinforced in post 71, purchase a 5000 lb plus bare tractor w/ a larger stature and physical presence for his own use? (Toutes a 5400 lb operating weight in avatar)

Could it be that when spending our OWN MONEY, the criteria of NECESSITY suddenly changes. ??

So remember what Messick's tells us, If the large heavy tractor is required, the means to that goal is NOT through a bunch of misplaced and ineffective attachments and implements. Begin w/ the proper tractor, proceed from there to meet the objective.

As an aside, folks will note a wheeled loader includes the actual loader. In that case, and w/ a dedicated TLB, (commercial const. Type) the loader and hoe are not removable and the tractor design included those features, they are not add-ons. Purpose built.

 

[rbstern]

I've come to the conclusion this one page guide concept isn't worth the bits and bytes it consumes.

A tractor isn't a whimsical purchase that can be meaningfully aided by a one page cheat sheet, hyper-focused on a particular tractor characteristic. If a tractor noob is intent on buying a tractor on impulse, with little or no research effort, the seller will hold much more sway.

There are too many important variables to dismiss so readily, in relentless pursuit of a one page document. The excessive focus on weight discounts the most important issue: Every user has a unique assortment of circumstances for which there is no single, right answer.

Also some of the content remains highly subjective: "Within subcompact and compact tractor categories, bare tractor weight must increase 50% before you notice a significant tractor capability increase. It takes a 100% increase in bare tractor weight to elicit MY-OH-MY!" Jeff, that may be your perspective, as felt thru the seat of your pants, but it's likely to be assessed quite differently by someone else, in different circumstances. Maybe a 20% increase in bare weight elicits MY-OH-MY! from someone with different experience. There is no objectivity in your statement.

 

[Rock Crawler]

I've thought that his horribly lame attempt at this worthless guide was nothing more than self gratification and a sad attempt for a noob to pretend to be an expert at something that he obviously is not.

I find great humor as I watch others admit to similar interpretations in some form or another.

I'm not a 60 years experience, worked agriculture for life, farm hand who's operated every type and color of ag machine imaginable in conditions from mild to wild.

Nope.

I'm a drag racing, rock crawling, sled pulling, gun shooting, dog loving, beer drinking Republican who needed a tractor and so went and bought one.... and hated it. And sold it, and bought another one and loved it.

But Jeff and his guide are funny. It entertains me

 

[majorwager]

rbstern and rock crawler,
Jeffy is oblivious to anyone in disagreement. Even the Messick's post, clearly stated that his lengthy dissertation is invalid. He is unlikely to alter his position. His self-perceived intellectual superiority fuels his discount of criticism as simply comments from the Unwashed .

He posts the same babbling format response to every post seeking tractor advice. The tractor cost per pound is twilight zone nonsense.

Jeffy's percentages have NO factual foundation, neither do his formulas for Parcel size and tractor model. His facts are pulled from the dense florida air.

The sad result is that some bite on his illogical tractor babble and discount smaller tractors as effective tools.

The rbstern comment is rather humorous, the tractor guide being felt through the Seat of the OP's pants.

 

[gladehound]

I've always wanted to write a guide like this! Jeff beat me too it. So here's my version 1!

Tractor buying guide V1:
Tractor capabilities should be matched to the tasks for which it is purchased and the budget of the purchaser. If you're unsure what this means, ask for advice on TBN and you'll get lots!