Shipping compressed gas cylinders

[Cord]

After I purchased my used welder on-line the seller asked if I would be taking the gas cylinder. None of the pictures show the cylinder and it's not in the listing so I didn't know the sale came with a cylinder. I can see the wear marks on the welder stand and it would appear a 8 or 9" cylinder was used. I'd guess argon. I'm having the welder shipped LTL so I asked the seller to use the welder one last time to document it's functionality prior to shipping and then to open the valve and empty the cylinder. I asked that he then cap the cylinder with the valve open and to put a piece of tape on the cylinder which says "Empty, valve is open". Do you see any problems shipping something like this?

Found this on a shipping website:

Are all calibration gases dangerous goods?
Yes. Each different type of calibration gas is contained inside a cylinder at a high pressure. This pressure represents a potential danger, as well as the danger of the gases themselves. Once a cylinder is empty, or near to empty, it may no longer be classified as dangerous goods. Typically, the cut-off point is 200kpa (29psi or 2BAR).

 

[Tractor Seabee]

You do not want to have the valve open at any time w/o regulator even if empty. They will get contaminated. To refill they than have to go through a special vacuum out process. All compressed gases are completely clean and dry. Full cylinders are shipped by motor freight all the time. The truck has to be placarded properly for the gas carried. Check with your shipper for any special procedures. Valves tightly closed and valve caps screwed on tight. They have to be hauled upright and tied down securely. Legally that applies when hauling in your pickup around town. Not heavily enforced. Acetylene is especially needs to be secured upright to prevent the acetone distributed within the filler from separating out.

Ron

 

[bigdeano]

I bought a tank of balloon helium. It just came regular UPS in a box. I measured the pressure. I think it was 250 psi.

Edit. I just looked at the box and says hazardous materials papers enclosed. I wouldn't think an empty tank would require anything special.

 

[Cord]

For the record, even with the cylinders empty, the shipping company refused to pick up the pallet without a hazmat label.

 

[bigdeano]

I guess they get more money with the hazmat label on it? Thanks for the update.

 

[sandman2234]

I bought a tank of balloon helium. It just came regular UPS in a box. I measured the pressure. I think it was 250 psi.

Edit. I just looked at the box and says hazardous materials papers enclosed. I wouldn't think an empty tank would require anything special.

So that would mean that an empty tanker truck is not required to have placards once he has dropped his loads of fuel? If it has EVER had any Hazmat material in it, your going to have to certify that it is free and clear, and who do you know that will certify it, rather than just make the o/p pay for HAZMAT material rates? My money is on the cylinder being required to be shipped as HAZMAT, and from what I am about to guess at, probably cheaper to buy a cylinder near you than have that one shipped if it is any distance at all. However... I might be wrong!!
I do know I hauled a Acetylene bottle from Atlanta to Vicksburg because the buyer couldn't get it shipped for any reasonable amount of money. I was going to Arkansas and he paid me well for going out of my way.
Best bet is to find someone going your way from there and have them haul the cylinder. Check the local hauling boards, and good luck!
David from jax

 

[bigdeano]

Just seems silly to me that an empty argon cylinder would be hazardous, since we breath it with every breath. But I don't make the laws.

 

[yomax4]

Never used is ok to ship. Once used not so much. Right or wrong. I've also tried.

 

[OkieDave]

Just seems silly to me that an empty argon cylinder would be hazardous, since we breath it with every breath. But I don't make the laws.

It's not the gas, it's the pressure--there's a huge amount of energy stored in compressed gases, even inert gases. As to why they won't take it, would you want the liability? Can you be absolutely certain the cylinder is empty, and not sitting on a broken valve that won't open? And that's before we consider its previous contents (do you really know what was in there?).

Gas cylinders get carried outside the vehicle for a reason (several, actually, including the possibility of asphyxiation as well as acute toxicity), and a lot of shippers just aren't equipped to carry them (or have appropriate insurance).

 

[crazyal]

The problem is that truck drivers aren't certified to verify if a cylinder is empty and not of any danger. A passenger jet crashed in the Everglades because some put out of date fuel cells in a box and someone else labeled them as empty. They got loaded on a plane and the rest is history. Drivers know that if something happens they are going to be visited by people with badges asking lots of questions.

 

[bigdeano]

I wonder if you pay the hazmat fee, is it shipped any different or do they just put it on the truck like anything else. Seems like paying the fee wouldn't make it any safer, but I'm not in the shipping business, just wondering.

The helium tank I bought came in the UPS truck like everything else in there.

 

[Cord]

Update: I ended up going with a different shipper because the first one wasn't performing. Knowing I had problems with the first shipper I labled the BOL to identify the cylinder as having contained a inert gas and that it was empty. So far nobody has called with a problem. It's in town and ready for pickup so I'll find out tomorrow...

 

[CincyFlyer]

One thing that comes to mind is that if this is a reasonably large cylinder, make sure that the seller actually owns it! I lease large cylinders.

 

[ch47dpilot]

Legally that applies when hauling in your pickup around town. Not heavily enforced. Acetylene is especially needs to be secured upright to prevent the acetone distributed within the filler from separating out.

Ron

just came across this post, any DIY bottle holders for back of truck. Also if Acetylene bottle is tipped with valve high but only as high as my bed cover would that be enough to stop separation. Or does it need to be fully upright.

 

[gsganzer]

just came across this post, any DIY bottle holders for back of truck. Also if Acetylene bottle is tipped with valve high but only as high as my bed cover would that be enough to stop separation. Or does it need to be fully upright.

I see weld rigs that have the gas bottles mounted at 45 degrees, so I assume they can be tipped 45 degrees and not have a problem.

 

[yomax4]

You can lay it down. It just needs to stand back up for approximately as long as it laid down before you use it. Or should I say, I've been doing it for 35 years. No probs.

 

[Lelandwelds]

You do not want to have the valve open at any time w/o regulator even if empty. They will get contaminated. To refill they than have to go through a special vacuum out process. All compressed gases are completely clean and dry. Full cylinders are shipped by motor freight all the time. The truck has to be placarded properly for the gas carried. Check with your shipper for any special procedures. Valves tightly closed and valve caps screwed on tight. They have to be hauled upright and tied down securely. Legally that applies when hauling in your pickup around town. Not heavily enforced. Acetylene is especially needs to be secured upright to prevent the acetone distributed within the filler from separating out.

Ron

each line of cylinders is vacuumed with each fill. Pumpers problem not yours. Acetone is a liquid. Gravity puts it back where it goes in minutes. Picture pouring coke out of a bottle.

For the record, even with the cylinders empty, the shipping company refused to pick up the pallet without a hazmat label.

Cylinders shipped by a local welding supply is routine business. Cylinders shipped by potential fruit loop is a potential disaster. Freight companies often have all the business they want. Why take risks?
Need placards and don't display? Problem. Show placard when not required? Much smaller problem if no full or empty container. No problem if amount carried is below placarding levels.

just came across this post, any DIY bottle holders for back of truck. Also if Acetylene bottle is tipped with valve high but only as high as my bed cover would that be enough to stop separation. Or does it need to be fully upright.

Flip a hefty skid up side down. Ratchet strap cylinders to skid and vehicle. Rubber floor mats or tire mud flaps help.

 

[TractorGuy]

I pick up the argon/co2 for my mig at the local AirGas. They do not allow cylinders inside the store. You have to carry them around to the open loading dock for exchange.

 

[cabinhollow]

I just got back from picking up a bottle of argon/co2.
At the place I go, you can not take the cylinders into the retail part, ( 1/2 of the building ) but you take them to the storage part, ( the other 1/2 of the building). A standard wall with double doors, that are open most of the time, is all the divides the building.

 

[Lelandwelds]

I pick up the argon/co2 for my mig at the local AirGas. They do not allow cylinders inside the store. You have to carry them around to the open loading dock for exchange.

Why would you want to carry them into the show room? Cylinders are dirty, noisy things that are just dying to roll or fall into something or someone. All the filling, loading, maintenance, testing, painting, valving, etc. does not happen in the pretty retail part.