Help me buy a compact tractor - information overload...

[newbury]

Viper Driver. jeffy always pushes the weight aspect, it is excessive/ compulsive. The mantra could easily be labeled

"BUY TOO MUCH TRACTOR"

I own both large and smaller tractors and a 2000 lb 25 gross hp tractor will perform a lot of tasks.<snip>

I agree, Jeff has a bunch of boilerplate. For example his treatise on "Safe hillside operation" and you didn't mention any hills.

I also own both small and large. My 23HP B7610 fits through my 5' gates and can do most things my 50HP M4700 will do, just smaller pieces at a time. Smaller mower, moves shorter logs, lot less gravel in the bucket.

I fully understand your need to have a tractor you can "squeeze" past your choke point.

I've also a house in Mississippi where the ONLY outside access to the back is through a carport and down a brick paved path. My B7610 fits fine,

my M4700 doesn't fit in the carport.

But I can still move some big stuff with my B7610,

Not sure why you need a 35HP tractor to maintain 2 acres. Also, it won't fit within the under 60" width you need. Aside from the width of the tractor itself, you want your implements to be a bit wider than the tractor for obvious reasons. A 5' implement is of course 60" wide and will give you just 6" of clearance on each side through your 72" space. If you're comfortable with that, you're looking at a max tractor width of around 54", including the tires.

If you're new to tractors, you may be underestimating the power and capability of a 25HP tractor.

I'd suggest also be flexible a bit on maximum width, you might need to very carefully drive a 66" wide tractor through your 72" opening.

 

[finn1]

Kioti ck3510 or ck4010.

Backhoe lists for $8500 with subframe per my dealer, but he would knock off $1k without negotiation.

I ended up buying a small excavator instead of a backhoe, and recommend a skid steer for serious dirt work over a small tractor.

 

[OverandOut]

Definitely look at other brands besides botas and the deere, you will find you can get a lot more options that come standard with the Kioti, LS, TYM, Yanmar but are add-ons with deere and bota. Kioti is assemble in Wilson and LS is also assemble close by in Rocky Mount/Battleboro NC. Best advice would be to go lot hopping, go to several dealerships and sit on a few brands and get a feel for the tractor and the dealership that you could possibly be dealing with. Chances are if they don't give a rats a%* about you as "shopper" they wont care about you or your investment when/if you need service. Ask to see the service department and talk to the service manager, that's one factor that sold me on the LS brand that I bought from my dealer, I didn't have to ask to see the service dept he carried me back there himself and introduced me to the service manager. Since I bought my LS almost 3 wks ago the salesman has called me each week and asked how the tractor is doing and if I needed anything or an issue came up, to call his personal cell phone no matter what time of day or night. With a Kioti or LS you may be able to get a 40-45hp tractor for same price as a bota 30-35hp tractor.

 

[newbury]

Kioti ck3510 or ck4010.

Backhoe lists for $8500 with subframe per my dealer, but he would knock off $1k without negotiation.

I ended up buying a small excavator instead of a backhoe, and recommend a skid steer for serious dirt work over a small tractor.

and if a large portion of your work is mowing 2 acres every week or so get a ZTR instead of a mower on a tractor!

 

[ViperDriver]

Wow - again thanks for the responses.

Clarity - we're currently building and it's a long process, with many tasks being subcontracted out to ourselves. It's a "weird" house and several different construction techniques and our requirements were specific - which led to a tight building envelope and a lot of undisturbed acreage (by design).

During the build process, we still have a lot of earth moving, ditch digging, yard prep, cistern backfilling, underground electrical / home automation installation, etc. The pricing we're seeing for stuff like this is ridiculous - seems like it's $20K to deploy earthmoving equipment around here. Thus the backhoe.

We thought about the mower - but it's a uni-tasker and the field is more rough than I'd want to move with a ZTR. (and the ZTR isn't the right answer for the house yard.)

We've reswizzled our thinking based on a lot of your feedback and we're thinking L2501 or B equivalent and will look at the other brands mentioned. We will go up in heft and down in HP, making sure equipment and tire fill and other things are addressed before the motor. it's quite possible that a 24 HP small tractor is perfect for us, gives us some wiggle room on the width restriction, and, comparatively speaking a crap ton more efficient than a shovel and wheelbarrow - which to date - have been the tools of choice for more than they should.

Appreciate the feedback on the package deals - will ensure we're talking about branded accessories. And while I don't "NEED" a trailer, it might be super handy!

the problem we have is simply TIME. Work demands are extreme for both us, and weekends get devoted to new house build chores, and then there's business travel that puts a huge monkey wrench in everything - so spending days moving from dealer to dealer looking at all the other brands isn't going to happen. Might we spend a little more that way - yes - but every day I can't move the ball forward on the house build is probably $1K when you figure in monthly GC costs, construction loan and missed opportunity. Which is why you all have been so helpful...

Thank you again for all this insight. Will keep you posted and I am sure I'll be back with more questions. LOL

 

[ViperDriver]

few more things - great idea on the PVC test pipe for width.

I have concrete retaining walls poured and a concrete house. "just make some more room around your house" isn't an option ;-)

Will def look at Yanmar. one thing that has turned me off from a couple manufacturers is no "build my tractor" option - I hate flying blind. (can't remember if that was the Yanmar site or not)

And for the bucket - having rented several bobcats - quick attach is a given.

One question - why must the bucket be wider than the tractor? (is it only to ensure if you get the bucket through the tractor fits? because beside the side of the house - we really don't have any other limitations)

 

[GirlWhoWantsTractor]

And for the bucket - having rented several bobcats - quick attach is a given.

One question - why must the bucket be wider than the tractor? (is it only to ensure if you get the bucket through the tractor fits? because beside the side of the house - we really don't have any other limitations)

Buckets and rear implements tend to be wider than the tractor, partly because if you need to, say, scrape right up to the edge of something, if your implement is narrower than the tractor, you can't. Also, rear implements like blades are often used set at an angle, so you want the angled blade to still be the at least the width of the tractor for the reasons above. Buckets and implements come in fairly standard widths; tractors too; and they are calibrated so you have extra width on the implement. Exceptions (sometimes) are attachments like grapples and pallet forks.

Few tractors under 30HP have SSQA for the bucket standard (mine does).

 

[majorwager]

Viperdriver

Sincerely, best of luck to you. You seem like nice folks on a mission.

 

[rngrrymd]

1. Deere 2032R - quick attach loader can get 57" bucket with loops built in, quick attach backhoe (best of all brands I believe), tractor 60" wide - slightly above your price point e.g.
John Deere 2�38R and 27�B backhoe - YouTube <-- easiest backhoe removal of all brands
2�18 John Deere 2�32R Tractor W/ Loader & Backhoe for sale in Select Location , NJ. Power Place, Inc. <-- pricing example

2. Kubota B3350 - great tractor, more lifting capacities/backhoe capability by specs.
Kubota LA534 Front Loader Removal & Operation | Messick's - YouTube <-- loader removal pretty easy
Kubota B335� & BH77 Backhoe connection Noob Demo - YouTube < -- backhoe removal/install not so easy (can you live with this process/how often will you swap between 3-point and backhoe?)

Deere has easiest loader/backhoe removal and install but has a little less raw specs than the Kubota. It is, however, a heavier tractor than the B3350. Worth considering.

I personally prefer to go bigger on the tractor for the same reason you don't have a lot of - time. It's amazing what folks accomplish with a SCUT who are ok with taking longer time to get a job done but I have other things to do (time is money to me) so I'd recommend staying in the CUT range you were initially looking at but getting a unit that complies with your 60" max width.

 

[/pine]

I personally prefer to go bigger on the tractor for the same reason you don't have a lot of - time. It's amazing what folks accomplish with a SCUT who are ok with taking longer time to get a job done but I have other things to do (time is money to me) so I'd recommend staying in the CUT range you were initially looking at but getting a unit that complies with your 60" max width.

IMO...There is very little difference in going from SCUT sized machines to CUT versions when it comes to performance/time values...neither can compare to full size commercial machines...
Even legendary commercial grade B model K_ubotas can't compare with much heavier machines that can do two to three times the work in less than half the time...

Not sure where the cut off line is between CUTs and a UT is but IMO you will gain very little in the way of productivity going from a SCUT to about any CUT...

 

[rngrrymd]

IMO...There is very little difference in going from SCUT sized machines to CUT versions when it comes to performance/time values...neither can compare to full size commercial machines...
Even legendary commercial grade B model K_ubotas can't compare with much heavier machines that can do two to three times the work in less than half the time...

Not sure where the cut off line is between CUTs and a UT is but IMO you will gain very little in the way of productivity going from a SCUT to about any CUT...

/pine, I believe 60 - 65hp is a popular start for utility tractors in USA - a lot of models like my Case Farmall/NH Powerstar are made in 55hp overseas but that seems to be more CUT territory here in USA.

I disagree with you on your SCUT vs CUT time statement - my thought process is if you can go from a 4' rotary mower to a 5' rotary mower or use a 24" bucket on a backhoe vs a 16" bucket or move a pile of dirt in 15 trips instead of 20 trips you are still saving time. Not a huge amount of time but still faster. You can also travel from point A to point B faster as well (Kubota BX23S - 8.4mph max forward speed vs Kubota B3350 - 14.3mph max forward speed) In the specification of 60" width and price point that the OP needs either a CUT or SCUT would be great options for their needs but the CUT will help them with their time constraints by getting the job done in less time.

 

[GirlWhoWantsTractor]

If you have tight spaces, a larger tractor can actually slow you down.

During the current road rebuild, although the Mahindra was the main machine doing the heavy work, my little riding-mower-mini-tractor with the 36" back blade was also in constant use as it could scoot into a tight space and grade it much quicker than my tractor could. And there are places my tractor can't fit at all. The size of the tractor is definitely relative to the layout of your property!

 

[ViperDriver]

Thanks for the representative pricing from Deere!

 

[Yanmar Tractor]

few more things - great idea on the PVC test pipe for width.

I have concrete retaining walls poured and a concrete house. "just make some more room around your house" isn't an option ;-)

Will def look at Yanmar. one thing that has turned me off from a couple manufacturers is no "build my tractor" option - I hate flying blind. (can't remember if that was the Yanmar site or not)

And for the bucket - having rented several bobcats - quick attach is a given.

One question - why must the bucket be wider than the tractor? (is it only to ensure if you get the bucket through the tractor fits? because beside the side of the house - we really don't have any other limitations)

ViperDriver,

There is a Build Your Tractor function on Compact Tractors, Sub-Compact Tractors & UTV's | Yanmar Tractor. At this link: Proposal Generator - Yanmar Tractor

Allows you to select the tractor model, select attachments, (loader, backhoe, rotary cutter, box scraper, etc., etc., and select options (e.g., optional lighting packages). The price is stated in MSRP terms. For more real-world pricing, obtain a quote from a dealer. The Build Your Tractor function allows you to email the tractor/attachments/options package you selected to a dealer you select to request a quote.

 

[rngrrymd]

Thanks for the representative pricing from Deere!

Hope you looked yesterday - that tractor showed a sale price of $30k that they aren't showing now. Some other sites are still showing discounted prices on 2038R's and 2032R's when I just looked so it must be just Powerplace not advertising a discount now. When I was shopping for tractors I got quotes from 2 different Deere dealers on 3R series models that ran roughly 16-17% off list price. Here is a link for current promo offers from John Deere corporate for next 3 months:

2 Family Compact Utility Tractors for sale | John Deere US

Here is a used 2017 2038R in Chesapeake about $5k less than a new model sells for:
https://www.tractorhouse.com/listings/farm-equipment/for-sale/26283677/2017-john-deere-2038r

Here is an awesome price for 2018 2032R with loader in Buchanan, VA for $19,500! (says 4 hours on machine)
https://www.tractorhouse.com/listings/farm-equipment/for-sale/26776337/2018-john-deere-2032r

Here is a 2018 2032R loader mower package for representative pricing from Mutton Power:
John Deere 232R Compact Utility Tractor

 

[/pine]

/pine, I believe 60 - 65hp is a popular start for utility tractors in USA - a lot of models like my Case Farmall/NH Powerstar are made in 55hp overseas but that seems to be more CUT territory here in USA.

I disagree with you on your SCUT vs CUT time statement - my thought process is if you can go from a 4' rotary mower to a 5' rotary mower or use a 24" bucket on a backhoe vs a 16" bucket or move a pile of dirt in 15 trips instead of 20 trips you are still saving time. Not a huge amount of time but still faster. You can also travel from point A to point B faster as well (Kubota BX23S - 8.4mph max forward speed vs Kubota B3350 - 14.3mph max forward speed) In the specification of 60" width and price point that the OP needs either a CUT or SCUT would be great options for their needs but the CUT will help them with their time constraints by getting the job done in less time.

Like I said "Very little time difference"...it's practically insignificant...BTW I was mainly referring to 3PH implements but how many 3PH backhoes can effectively handle a 24" bucket?...one of the most common commercial applications for small 3PH backhoes is digging graves in cemeteries where there is little room to maneuver...

Obviously a slightly larger machine will slightly outwork a smaller machine...but there is no way a SCUT OR CUT can compete with full size commercial machines...and trying to to use larger heavier commercial duty implements on smaller tractors that were not designed to handle said implements is detrimental to the longevity of smaller tractors...

 

[ViperDriver]

Hope you looked yesterday - that tractor showed a sale price of $30k that they aren't showing now. Some other sites are still showing discounted prices on 2038R's and 2032R's when I just looked so it must be just Powerplace not advertising a discount now. When I was shopping for tractors I got quotes from 2 different Deere dealers on 3R series models that ran roughly 16-17% off list price. Here is a link for current promo offers from John Deere corporate for next 3 months:

2 Family Compact Utility Tractors for sale | John Deere US

Here is a used 2017 2038R in Chesapeake about $5k less than a new model sells for:
https://www.tractorhouse.com/listings/farm-equipment/for-sale/26283677/2017-john-deere-2038r

Here is an awesome price for 2018 2032R with loader in Buchanan, VA for $19,500! (says 4 hours on machine)
https://www.tractorhouse.com/listings/farm-equipment/for-sale/26776337/2018-john-deere-2032r

Here is a 2018 2032R loader mower package for representative pricing from Mutton Power:
John Deere 232R Compact Utility Tractor

Ha! I did not look yesterday and it was eye popping today! Must have been a July special. Checking out your other links.........

 

[rngrrymd]

Viper, it looks like the Kiota CK series has a backhoe that's easier to remove as well. Not as slick as the Deere but quicker than taking the 3-point hardware on/off on the Kubota. I kinda like the SE models (CK3510SE HST is comparable to the B3350 or 2032R) because they give you the rubber vibration isolation floor mat like you get on the Deere and Kubota, (the regular CK series is just metal floor), linked HST pedal on/off switch, side mirrors, armrests on the seat, 2 rear remotes standard, extendable 3-point links, toolbox, the auto-off switch on the PTO which will turn off pto to implement when u raise 3 point, and tilt steering from factory. It also comes with a 60" ssqa bucket as option which is where you need to be for width. Kioti was a good price when I shopped but I couldn't get a good financing rate from them at the time (or dealer didn't offer - not sure). They are offering 0% for 72 months with 10% down. Kubota was offering 0% for 84 months but you have to put 20% down plus buy Kubota's insurance.

CK1SE Series - All New 218 CK351SE & CK4SE Kioti Compact Tractor - YouTube < decent video showing options (linked pedal lever is to left of steering wheel and actual pto on/off to right of seat)
Removing and Installing a Kioti Tractor Loader - CK351 SE CAB - YouTube <- pretty standard loader removal
How to take off a Kioti Tractor Backhoe - CK261 HST w/ KB2475L Backhoe - YouTube < - basic example of backhoe removal (gives you the gist)

Not a lot of pricing examples out there on the internet. I was looking thru some posts on the Kioti forum to try and get info.

 

[rngrrymd]

Viper,

https://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/kioti-buying-pricing/398869-first-time-tractor-owner-soon-4.html <-- Post 17 and Post 31 have prices paid for CK3510SE HST

 

[ViperDriver]

Thank you for this - sometimes finding the specs can be challenging (or they are a little incomplete.) And also talking about the standard features as well assume niceties - much appreciated! Checking it out.

Got the quote from the Kubota dealer and think he may be thinking that he has a live one on the hook.... Let's just say the discounting was not particularly aggressive. I negotiate for a living - if I had more time this could be fun.

ETA - the Kioti site is the one that doesn't let you BUILD YOUR TRACTOR - drives me nuts. Honestly - it's a turn off because I have to go to the dealer. But - since you gave me actual prices paid that's super helpful, esp since one was equipped pretty much like we'd want. Maybe we will go there tomorrow.

Viper,

https://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/kioti-buying-pricing/398869-first-time-tractor-owner-soon-4.html <-- Post 17 and Post 31 have prices paid for CK3510SE HST