Buying Advice I need a better wheel barrow!

[Lelandwelds]

I bought 4 acres next to my dad's 25. It is very rocky Central Texas. I have hundred year old live oaks that are only 20 ft tall and 6 inch caliper. It is hot here so the trees are precious. I pick up a lot of rocks. My fence lines need work. I mow about three acres. One quarter acre is mowed weekly. I rarely lift more than 2000 pounds. I need to build some outbuildings and a shop. I need to fine tune a ditch and some berms. I plan to build a sound control wall or some gabions.

Dad has a 873 Bobcat with a lot of hours. It is about the right weight but tears up stuff too much. It is reaching the point where it is becoming a money pit. I want to move away from the Bobcat except for drilling with the Beltec.

Except for a brief Kubota rental, the last tractors I drove were a 1960s Case 930 and 740 FEL and a 1970s IH hydrostatic. I like the hydrostatic and dislike heel and toe throttle. I have sometimes wished for something narrower.

I am almost excited about having a PTO again. Stump grinding would cause less mess. I had a 16 hp chipper and it was too small. A 5 or 6 ft flail mower would be great. A FEL and a dumping 3 point box would be great.

What new or used diesel should I be interested in?

 

[jeff9366]

Mowing is the tractor application which will require the most repeat time.

Use this MOWING CALCULATOR, then tell us what period of time you are will to spend mowing.
Mowing Calcuator | How many acres can I mow in an hour


Lifting 2,000 pounds with a tractor FEL on HARD, FLAT ground requires a bare tractor weight of 4,500 pounds plus at least 1,200 pounds counterbalance mounted on the Three Point Hitch.

If lifting 1,000 pounds on the FEL is sufficient, a tractor with a bare weight of 2,700 pounds, with 500 to 600 pounds counterbalance mounted on the Three Point Hitch will do it.

The lift capacity of all tractor FELs decreases rapidly with lift height. You may be able to lift some loads 6" and no higher.

If lifting to a very limited height (12" or a tad more) suffices, consider Three Point Hitch pallet forks.

Bare tractor weight is a tractor specification easily found in sales brochures and web sites, readily comparable across tractor brands and tractor models, new and used.


Most would carry loads in the FEL bucket, rather than a dumping bed, but one dumping bed is made in Kentucky, Pat's Easy Mover:
greenwellmfg - Home

 

[Lelandwelds]

Mowing may be the most frequent task but it is the one I care least about. Truthfully, I can buy a used commercial ZTR for about what a shredder costs and the ZTR is the fastest, most efficient way to mow. And, as long as I am be honest, a tractor falls into that gray area between "toy" and "necessary" tool. If pretty much any of my many, many projects isn't finished in a timely manner, the world will still turn and I will sleep soundly.

My future shop will have an overhead hoist if not a full bridge crane. Even that will probably only see 500lb.The only thing that might hit a ton would be surplus machine shop equipment. That isn't extremely likely. I can always find a way to lift what I need to.

I never dreamed anyone mfg a three point dumping box much less a scooping one. My preferred way to move material would be a dump truck that I filled with a FEL. I pictured welding up something like a third or half yard dumpster with a mechanical latch to dump. I would use the 3 point to move and still fill the bucket. I might fill the dumpster with cactus for example and the bucket with rocks. I hate running back and forth with tiny little bucket fulls.

I started looking for a reliable used tractor a month ago. John deere alone produced so many models (many were only made for 5 years) that reading up on reliability problems was difficult. There are so many out there.

 

[searcyfarms]

are the rocks sticking up or do you have to move soil to get to the rocks? I would much rather mow rocks with a Rear Mount Mower/Bush Hog than a ZT.

Are you going to have to do a lot of rock picking before you start mowing?

 

[jeff9366]

I started looking for a reliable used tractor a month ago. John deere alone produced so many models (many were only made for 5 years) that reading up on reliability problems was difficult. There are so many out there.

I am one who believes the prudence and experience of the owner and operator is key to reliability.

Prudence and experience operating the tractor. Prudence and experience performing preventative maintenance on schedule.

Tractors used commercially are operated by an ever changing cast, HARD.

Better to find a one or two owner tractor. Inside stored is better than outside stored.


Here are tractors for sale via eBay near Austin, Texas:
tractor -garden in Business and Industrial Supplies | eBay

 

[Lelandwelds]

are the rocks sticking up or do you have to move soil to get to the rocks? I would much rather mow rocks with a Rear Mount Mower/Bush Hog than a ZT.

Are you going to have to do a lot of rock picking before you start mowing?

The parts that I mow frequently are pretty clear. I have been mowing Dad's for 40 years off and on. I have been clearing mine with a digging bar for two years. I started clearing before I broke ground on the house. The parts I mow monthly are pretty rough. I walk it before to brush up the old memory. Some is weedeater only.

I am hoping a landscape rake will collect surface and near surface rocks. I am hoping i can come up with a front or rear mounted ripper that will handle some that are a little tougher. I dont want to break equipment. I am patient. Rock picking is a never ending job.

I am looking for that one owner, low miles tractor driven only on Sundays by a little old lady from Pasadena.

 

[GirlWhoWantsTractor]

I am hoping a landscape rake will collect surface and near surface rocks. I am hoping i can come up with a front or rear mounted ripper that will handle some that are a little tougher. I dont want to break equipment. I am patient. Rock picking is a never ending job.

Yes, having rocky soil myself, rock picking is never ending, as each frost/thaw cycles brings more to the surface, and I swear they come to the surface on their own regardless.

A landscape rake will collect smaller surface rocks and gravels. A box blade with scarifiers down will pop out buried rocks up to maybe 10" across or so, and collect them, but will also obviously rip up any existing sod to a certain extent. The areas where I meticulously removed all rocks down to where the box blade scarifiers would reach and then seeded with grass, seem to be doing better. A thick layer of healthy grass has helped the rocks from coming up so far. Rocky land seems to always be rough land. This year during the cold season when all the grass has died down, plan to level out some of my lawn and re-seed for easier mowing with a riding mower in the future.

I have nice trails through the rest of the wildness and will make a few more. Those I can de-rock and level out. The rest I let Mother Nature do the landscaping.

 

[Lelandwelds]

I never thought of using a box blade. I thought it odd so many people own one. We never used one on the family dairy farm. It will collect and hold rocks? I would've guessed it would randomly drop them somewhere. Plus, I find one hard to use well.

It doesn't freeze here but the rocks still rise. I was guessing some version of a deep chisel or one of those spring mounted rippers would be needed.

 

[searcyfarms]

ok was just curious on the rocks, we have some areas we take care of with rocks and well..........after a few MMM issues we went to total RMM/Brush hogs and keep them HIGH =

 

[Lelandwelds]

If I choose one of those tempting Itty bitty tractors, a 48"or 52" MMM will fit everywhere I want to mow. I think it might be faster than a 7 ft shredder! All the other chores would be better done with a heavier, more powerful tractor.

I watched a crew mowing the ROW with a (12 ft?) flail mower a few years ago. It was impressive. Years later I can't forget the disappearing 4 ft tall grass. It was a bit like magic.

 

[searcyfarms]

I think u will do great provided there aren't rocks to chew up blades or bend decks or launch them towards a window!!!

 

[Lelandwelds]

So anyone have any tractor opinions? I use the Bobcat mostly to carry things around in the bucket. Firewood, cactus, rocks, topsoil, etc. It would be essentially a diesel powered wheel barrow.

I would like start chipping and stump grinding. I think it would be less destructive than pushing over 8 ft stumps and worrying it like a dog with a bone. The burn bans are always messing with my plans.

Some tractors must be better suited. Some must have design problems. I want only one. I am really out of touch with what works today and is available.

 

[majorwager]

Bobcat, 770 series with all wheel steer is best of both worlds, 90+ hp, so power a plenty, conventional steering so no landscape damage, huge loader lift capacity, and more bobcat attachments than could even be used in a lifetime. Enclosed cab available w/ A/C, dust filtration. NO DPF emissions system, worth a look. Several finish and rotary mower attachment options available.


Jeffy, you have many wierd links in your posts? Are you paid by advertisers to shill for those products? See post #2.

Further, jeffy. You disparage commercial operators. Many are individual business owners who operate the equipment themselves. They also understand that equipment care is essential to their livelihood.

Your uninformed generalizations are personal inaccuracies and biases that are often better kept to yourself.

Arrogance and condescending remarks, which illicited criticism in the forum where the OP was seeking soil plowing advice, is simply unhelpful.

 

[jeff9366]

It doesn't freeze here but the rocks still rise. Perhaps a deep chisel or one of those spring mounted rippers would be needed.

RE: Spring protected rippers. I have a Dirt Dog All Purpose Plow which I use quite a bit. From your description of your rocky soil I think you will break too many (replaceable) points.
https://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/attachments/339095-dirt-dog-all-purpose-plow.html?highlight=

Consider a Middlebuster/Potato Plow or a Subsoiler.
(Neither of these implements fit subcompact tractors unless specifically designed to do so.)
VIDEOS: tractor middlebuster - YouTube
tractor potato plow - YouTube
compact tractor subsoiler - YouTube

If you want deeper soil penetration with Middlebuster or Subsoiler move pin to bottom holes on Lifting Rod stirrups. See photos.

 

[jeff9366]

Some tractors must be better suited. Some must have design problems. I want only one. I am really out of touch with what works today and is available.

Tractors in common weight categories are pretty generic. The Three Point Hitch is to industry standard, although hitch lift capacity and lift height varies. When you get into details compact tractors vary some, which we obsess about in this forum.

Significant "breaks" to me are ground clearance, (9" or less, or 12" or more) and whether or not tractor will fit into a residential garage with an 84" headboard.

Your conundrum is having four acres, excluding other family property, for which a 1,700 pound to 2,700 pound bare weight tractor is appropriate and your desire to unload 2,000 pound pallets which requires a 4,500 pound bare weight tractor to accomplish safely.

VIDEOS: Are Sub-Compact Tractors "REAL" Tractors?? - TMT - YouTube
Kubota B-Series vs Standard L1 Series - YouTube

 

[Gary Fowler]

I really don't recommend that you start deep subsoiling to bring up more rocks. Your soil is likely solid rock with a bit of top soil so the more you deep plow, the more rocks you will have and you will never get them all up.
A landscape rake might work for windrowing up the larger surface rocks. The tines are about an inch apart so small stuff will sift thru. Grass will not go thru and will just stop everything up, so that may be a problem for you. A box blade will gather up rocks and topsoil and anything else it goes over. You may not want all your topsoil dug up although the scarifiers set at 6" deep might work to bring up some of the rocks that will naturally rise over time. I wouldn't go any deeper than that.
As for tractor size or brand, as long as you have an established dealer for the tractor brand, you likely wont have any issues. Almost all the CUTs build are reliable but just like automobiles, one is occasionally a lemon, but you shouldn't let some web poster that got one and now badmouths every XXXXX brand as being bad sway your thinking too much.

I don't think I would be looking at any SCUT for your work, not even for mowing. A 25-40 HP CUT would work well, having plenty of lift capacity, weight and power to dig out rocks and lift and carry them away. You can check the specs on just about any tractor made at Tractordata.com

 

[GirlWhoWantsTractor]

I never thought of using a box blade. I thought it odd so many people own one. We never used one on the family dairy farm. It will collect and hold rocks? I would've guessed it would randomly drop them somewhere. Plus, I find one hard to use well.

It doesn't freeze here but the rocks still rise. I was guessing some version of a deep chisel or one of those spring mounted rippers would be needed.

If the box blade is set level just touching the ground with the scarifiers down, as you go along the scarifiers pop the rocks up and the box blade will "collect" them without picking up much dirt. Eventually the box blade is full of rocks and you can dump them where you want them.

A box blade is good for grading, smoothing, and grooming. Best tool for maintaining a gravel road IMO. Maybe not much use on a dairy farm.

 

[Lelandwelds]

I really don't recommend that you start deep subsoiling to bring up more rocks. Your soil is likely solid rock with a bit of top soil so the more you deep plow, the more rocks you will have and you will never get them all up.
A landscape rake might work for windrowing up the larger surface rocks. The tines are about an inch apart so small stuff will sift thru. Grass will not go thru and will just stop everything up, so that may be a problem for you. A box blade will gather up rocks and topsoil and anything else it goes over. You may not want all your topsoil dug up although the scarifiers set at 6" deep might work to bring up some of the rocks that will naturally rise over time. I wouldn't go any deeper than that.
As for tractor size or brand, as long as you have an established dealer for the tractor brand, you likely wont have any issues. Almost all the CUTs build are reliable but just like automobiles, one is occasionally a lemon, but you shouldn't let some web poster that got one and now badmouths every XXXXX brand as being bad sway your thinking too much.

I don't think I would be looking at any SCUT for your work, not even for mowing. A 25-40 HP CUT would work well, having plenty of lift capacity, weight and power to dig out rocks and lift and carry them away. You can check the specs on just about any tractor made at Tractordata.com

That sounds like sound advice. The top 6 - 12" is dirt with scattered random rocks. Below that is solid, pink and white, high manganese and magnesium dolomitic limestone. (My well went through about 60 ft of it without interruption.) It is pretty fractured and I haven't found any shelfs I could chop.

That 90 hp is a beautiful machine but I could never work it hard enough to avoid wet stacking or whatever problems current diesel engines have. My wife would kill me if I took on a bunch of debt after we worked so hard to pay everything off. Plus, I think I would cry when I broke my first piece of glass.

I googled the implements mentioned. They make lots of stuff especially stuff for little tractors. I though I had seen it all when I saw the land plane and the spring loaded job. It looks like there is more than one PTO output shaft?

I wish I had never mentioned lifting 2000 lbs. That was such a piddling small weight with the old FEL . But, Tractor Data says it weighs 9,485 lbs ballasted. The rear tires were filled with water and it had all the axle weights that would fit. I guess it was ballasted. I can use the Bobcat for heavy stuff. I am wanting to build an off road articulating gantry crane anyway. Door height isn't a problem. I won't buy the tractor until I get two hi cube containers spaced apart with a roof between them. The entry end will be 12 - 16 ft tall.

Finding a good dealer is a whole other problem. I have used four of them for other equipment and am not happy. I worry about buying a lemon with some intermittent electronic gizmo and having to haul it repeatedly to some distant dealer who has no clue.

 

[GirlWhoWantsTractor]

If I choose one of those tempting Itty bitty tractors, a 48"or 52" MMM will fit everywhere I want to mow. I think it might be faster than a 7 ft shredder! All the other chores would be better done with a heavier, more powerful tractor.

As another poster said, yes you have a conundrum here. A SCUT could handle most of your chores. But running a stump grinder and large chipper would require a larger tractor.

One option is to hire out your large one-time jobs, and then buy a tractor sized for your ongoing chores. I rented an enormous chipper (and two guys to run it) that you could feed an entire tree up to 6" diameter through and it chipped it in seconds. Only cost a few hundred dollars for the day and took care of all of THAT in one go. I also hired a large excavator and operator to push over my large stumps, put them in a dump truck, and cart them away. Again, just a few hundred dollars and it was done in a couple hours. Cheaper than buying a big tractor, but then a lot of folks want to be able to do everything themselves so buy something big enough to tackle any conceivable job.

 

[jeff9366]

I never thought of using a box blade. I thought it odd so many people own one. We never used one on the family dairy farm.

Many compact tractor owner using implements as Three Point Hitch counterbalance choose Box Blades.

Box Blades do not cut acceptably, at least for me, until weight is at least 100 pounds per foot of width. My Box Blade is 125 pounds per foot of width. Construction Box Blades are 200 pounds per foot of width or more.

Box Blades of at least 100 pounds per foot of width, and widths of 48", 60", 72" have reasonable weight for counterbalance to general FEL work. One hundred twenty to 150 pounds per foot of width is desirable for counterbalance to HEAVY FEL loads.

Photos 2,3: The sopping wet Water Oak weighed around 1,400 pounds. My Rollover Box Blade weighs 630 pounds.
Tractor's rear wheels were very lightly in ground contact. I should have had a heavier implement on the Three Point Hitch.