Found a coyote, I think

[cqaigy2]

Genearlly speaking, nature and the animals that reside in her live in balance. It's also generally something that man does that throws that balance off.

Yes, but we know better so have to "manage" those ignorant animals.

 

[gwstang]

Genearlly speaking, nature and the animals that reside in her live in balance. It's also generally something that man does that throws that balance off.

The only thing that limits the yotes down here is food source. They have no natural enemy, no cougars or wolfs or anything. Lots of people are complaining about the population. I realize we are moving into their territory but we are going to do that anyway. I guess the real problem is that we have removed the apex predators and now we are the only one at the top.

 

[1010]

Nothing like dooming a wild animal to life in a pen, folks can't let nature take it's course.

 

[Raspy]

Nothing like dooming a wild animal to life in a pen, folks can't let nature take it's course.

That is part of the dilema. But in Sandy's case she was abandoned, nearly dead, mouth and nose full of sand, abraisions bleeding and frozen to the point of being stiff and nearly lifeless. Another half hour alone in the wild and this entire story would never have occured. It's a wonder she survived at all and a testament to her strength and resiliancy.

She was not trapped or penned up when with us and was always free to go.

Ditching her somewhere far away in the forest was a certain death sentence. A gruesome or slow, suffereing death. A "pen" was not our first choice, but mandated by laws that prevented us from keeping her or getting her medical attention. It meant she would not be killed by Animal Control.

I agree that it is not in a coyote's nature to be confined. But it is also true that she is happy, healthy and mentally stable.

Given all that, and that she is a marvelous ambassador from the wild, I'd say being confined to a "pen", as you put it, is a good thing. It's good for her, given the alternative, and a good chance for all of us to learn from her and interact with her.

I would never argue that wild animals should be confined to pens, or tamed, but this is a special case where she and all of us are all better off because of it. Since it did occur, let's make the best of it. She is very happy, has a lifetime mate, is healthy and is busy living her life in a low stress environment. Her enclosure is big and interesting inside. She and Shorty have dug a den of their design and were left alone to do it. She has the time to nap, play with Shorty, dig her den, interact with the volunteers, etc. She is not afraid or under any stress. She is healthy and well fed, so she is not in physical distress.

Yes, she is not free to roam, but that can never happen. So what is the alternative beyond what she has now? How might some other alternative be better? The potential good that comes from learning about her and her kind may benefit all coyotes, and people, in the long run. But only if we are interested enough to take advantage of the opportunity.

 

[dragoneggs]

The only thing that limits the yotes down here is food source. They have no natural enemy, no cougars or wolfs or anything. Lots of people are complaining about the population. I realize we are moving into their territory but we are going to do that anyway. I guess the real problem is that we have removed the apex predators and now we are the only one at the top.

Yep, and we blame the animals who are living naturally. Not saying I want to regress to that point though!

 

[Threepoint]

That is part of the dilema. But in Sandy's case she was abandoned, nearly dead, mouth and nose full of sand, abraisions bleeding and frozen to the point of being stiff and nearly lifeless. Another half hour alone in the wild and this entire story would never have occured. It's a wonder she survived at all and a testament to her strength and resiliancy.

She was not trapped or penned up when with us and was always free to go.

Ditching her somewhere far away in the forest was a certain death sentence. A gruesome or slow, suffereing death. A "pen" was not our first choice, but mandated by laws that prevented us from keeping her or getting her medical attention. It meant she would not be killed by Animal Control.

I agree that it is not in a coyote's nature to be confined. But it is also true that she is happy, healthy and mentally stable.

Given all that, and that she is a marvelous ambassador from the wild, I'd say being confined to a "pen", as you put it, is a good thing. It's good for her, given the alternative, and a good chance for all of us to learn from her and interact with her.

I would never argue that wild animals should be confined to pens, or tamed, but this is a special case where she and all of us are all better off because of it. Since it did occur, let's make the best of it. She is very happy, has a lifetime mate, is healthy and is busy living her life in a low stress environment. Her enclosure is big and interesting inside. She and Shorty have dug a den of their design and were left alone to do it. She has the time to nap, play with Shorty, dig her den, interact with the volunteers, etc. She is not afraid or under any stress. She is healthy and well fed, so she is not in physical distress.

Yes, she is not free to roam, but that can never happen. So what is the alternative beyond what she has now? How might some other alternative be better? The potential good that comes from learning about her and her kind may benefit all coyotes, and people, in the long run. But only if we are interested enough to take advantage of the opportunity.

John, you are a class act.

 

[dragoneggs]

John, you are a class act.

ditto that... as least from what I have read!

 

[Raspy]

Thanks guys. I appreciate that.

 

[/pine]

A slightly related story...

Several years ago a very young black bear cub showed up in my neighbor's yard the mother was no where to be found...The wildlife officer that responded said a mother bear with more than one cub will sometime lose one that wanders off...

They took the cub up on the ridge in a open topped box and let it cry all that night...the mother never came back...the bear is now at a zoo up in Knoxville...

 

[1010]

That is part of the dilema. But in Sandy's case she was abandoned, nearly dead, mouth and nose full of sand, abraisions bleeding and frozen to the point of being stiff and nearly lifeless. Another half hour alone in the wild and this entire story would never have occured. It's a wonder she survived at all and a testament to her strength and resiliancy.

She was not trapped or penned up when with us and was always free to go.

Ditching her somewhere far away in the forest was a certain death sentence. A gruesome or slow, suffereing death. A "pen" was not our first choice, but mandated by laws that prevented us from keeping her or getting her medical attention. It meant she would not be killed by Animal Control.

I agree that it is not in a coyote's nature to be confined. But it is also true that she is happy, healthy and mentally stable.

Given all that, and that she is a marvelous ambassador from the wild, I'd say being confined to a "pen", as you put it, is a good thing. It's good for her, given the alternative, and a good chance for all of us to learn from her and interact with her.

I would never argue that wild animals should be confined to pens, or tamed, but this is a special case where she and all of us are all better off because of it. Since it did occur, let's make the best of it. She is very happy, has a lifetime mate, is healthy and is busy living her life in a low stress environment. Her enclosure is big and interesting inside. She and Shorty have dug a den of their design and were left alone to do it. She has the time to nap, play with Shorty, dig her den, interact with the volunteers, etc. She is not afraid or under any stress. She is healthy and well fed, so she is not in physical distress.

Yes, she is not free to roam, but that can never happen. So what is the alternative beyond what she has now? How might some other alternative be better? The potential good that comes from learning about her and her kind may benefit all coyotes, and people, in the long run. But only if we are interested enough to take advantage of the opportunity.

What ever helps you sleep at night,, I stand by what I posted.

 

[dragoneggs]

Nothing like dooming a wild animal to life in a pen, folks can't let nature take it's course.

What ever helps you sleep at night,, I stand by what I posted.

I don't know if you followed this thread from the beginning and absolutely no disrespect to your thoughts here. Whether you have or not followed this saga, I suspect you haven't always practiced 'letting nature take its course' applying this to all things living.

 

[1010]

I don't know if you followed this thread from the beginning and absolutely no disrespect to your thoughts here. Whether you have or not followed this saga, I suspect you haven't always practiced 'letting nature take its course' applying this to all things living.

I have raised two pups over the years, both came and went as they pleased, and ultimately chose the local pack probably the one they came from. I miss them both and wonder all the time about them. I had even put florescent collars on them, but removed them when the spells of being gone started getting weeks at a time.
The point is I don't speak for a wild animal, If I couldn't raise it with it having a chance to live free I certainly wouldn't put it in a pen for the rest of it's life under some bogus notion it was an ambassador for others.
I don't think any animal would choose a pen for life over death, would you?
I have a heart of gold when animals are concerned, I've certainly tried to save many over the years. Some made it back to the wild some were put down from injury.
I won't change you're opinion and you won't change mine.

 

[dragoneggs]

I have raised two pups over the years, both came and went as they pleased, and ultimately chose the local pack probably the one they came from. I miss them both and wonder all the time about them. I had even put florescent collars on them, but removed them when the spells of being gone started getting weeks at a time.
The point is I don't speak for a wild animal, If I couldn't raise it with it having a chance to live free I certainly wouldn't put it in a pen for the rest of it's life under some bogus notion it was an ambassador for others.
I don't think any animal would choose a pen for life over death, would you?
I have a heart of gold when animals are concerned, I've certainly tried to save many over the years. Some made it back to the wild some were put down from injury.
I won't change you're opinion and you won't change mine.

Thanks for your added color here. Not trying to change your opinion. Circumstances can dictate choices.

 

[Raspy]

I have raised two pups over the years, both came and went as they pleased, and ultimately chose the local pack probably the one they came from. I miss them both and wonder all the time about them. I had even put florescent collars on them, but removed them when the spells of being gone started getting weeks at a time.
The point is I don't speak for a wild animal, If I couldn't raise it with it having a chance to live free I certainly wouldn't put it in a pen for the rest of it's life under some bogus notion it was an ambassador for others.
I don't think any animal would choose a pen for life over death, would you?
I have a heart of gold when animals are concerned, I've certainly tried to save many over the years. Some made it back to the wild some were put down from injury.
I won't change you're opinion and you won't change mine.

It's too bad you can't understand that Sandy was already doomed in a number of ways. Or that we chose a life at Southwest instead of death. In fact, we chose to save her. We chose to let her live instead of killing her or letting her die, or letting someone else kill her. It obviously doesn't match your values, but it was a good choice for her and all others involved.

If you ever decided to meet her and see how she lives you might re-think your position, but I doubt it. It's too easy to stand on a pre-conceived notion without much basis or thought. And, in fact, that goes to the heart of the whole story, namely, a pre-conceived notion of how coyotes must be. This with no real experience or sympathy for their plight. Meanwhile she is sensitive, fun, smart, well balanced and healthy. It may be hard for you to understand that, but it's true.

So, as you say, you won't change your opinion and I'd be surprised if you did because this story is an opportunity to look at something we know little about and actually learn something. Or to see an intelligent animal and find out there is much more to them than we thought. It requires some thought and some empathy.

There will always be a percentage who have their minds made up and are not interested. You represent that segment well. And that is part of the reason for telling her story. I'm not willing to let those who don't know, or have no experience, or who don't care, dominate the conversation. That is part of the reason that coyotes suffer as much as they do. Her story is for those that are curious, intelligent and caring. I will never declare that they are always good and always safe to be around, or that they are never a menace, but there is more to them than many realize.

Fortunately, there is a large majority of people that love dogs, is interested in survival against the odds and is interested in learning about wild dogs that they will never have first hand experience with. People interested in animal intelligence and animal behaviour. Sandy offers this story for those interested. She is alive and well to meet and learn from.

Perhaps you missed the point that Sandy was always free. No collars and no pens. She chose to be with us and we became her pack. She loves us, lived with us, taught us, learned from us, played with us, camped with us and traveled with us. She was about to be killed by animal control and we saved her by sending her to Southwest. Somehow, that message seems lost in your story about being free.

So, you can continue to not get it if you wish. Or try to declare, for her, what she would chose if you want. But you weren't there, were you. You haven't met her, have you?

 

[dragoneggs]

John, thanks again for your time responding in kind here. Those of us who have had good experiences with coyote breeds can appreciate your opinions. Others that haven't, I understand that too.

 

[ChiefBodie]

Better the body be in a cage than the mind.

 

[1010]

It's too bad you can't understand that Sandy was already doomed in a number of ways. Or that we chose a life at Southwest instead of death. In fact, we chose to save her. We chose to let her live instead of killing her or letting her die, or letting someone else kill her. It obviously doesn't match your values, but it was a good choice for her and all others involved.

If you ever decided to meet her and see how she lives you might re-think your position, but I doubt it. It's too easy to stand on a pre-conceived notion without much basis or thought. And, in fact, that goes to the heart of the whole story, namely, a pre-conceived notion of how coyotes must be. This with no real experience or sympathy for their plight. Meanwhile she is sensitive, fun, smart, well balanced and healthy. It may be hard for you to understand that, but it's true.

So, as you say, you won't change your opinion and I'd be surprised if you did because this story is an opportunity to look at something we know little about and actually learn something. Or to see an intelligent animal and find out there is much more to them than we thought. It requires some thought and some empathy.

There will always be a percentage who have their minds made up and are not interested. You represent that segment well. And that is part of the reason for telling her story. I'm not willing to let those who don't know, or have no experience, or who don't care, dominate the conversation. That is part of the reason that coyotes suffer as much as they do. Her story is for those that are curious, intelligent and caring. I will never declare that they are always good and always safe to be around, or that they are never a menace, but there is more to them than many realize.

Fortunately, there is a large majority of people that love dogs, is interested in survival against the odds and is interested in learning about wild dogs that they will never have first hand experience with. People interested in animal intelligence and animal behaviour. Sandy offers this story for those interested. She is alive and well to meet and learn from.

Perhaps you missed the point that Sandy was always free. No collars and no pens. She chose to be with us and we became her pack. She loves us, lived with us, taught us, learned from us, played with us, camped with us and traveled with us. She was about to be killed by animal control and we saved her by sending her to Southwest. Somehow, that message seems lost in your story about being free.

So, you can continue to not get it if you wish. Or try to declare, for her, what she would chose if you want. But you weren't there, were you. You haven't met her, have you?

Typical emotional response and trying to justify the actions you made for a helpless animal that now resides in a pen.
LMAO at the garbage you posted. Legend in you're own mind.

 

[/pine]

Typical emotional response and trying to justify the actions you made for a helpless animal that now resides in a pen.
LMAO at the garbage you posted. Legend in you're own mind.

LMAO at the (uneducated) use of the wrong word form garbage you posted...duh!

 

[1010]

LMAO at the (uneducated) use of the wrong word form garbage you posted...duh!

aww,, I'm crushed,, I could draw you a picture?!?! Typical defection, you might be as bad as the other emotional flamer on here.

 

[Molalla1]

It's too bad you can't understand that Sandy was already doomed in a number of ways. Or that we chose a life at Southwest instead of death. In fact, we chose to save her. We chose to let her live instead of killing her or letting her die, or letting someone else kill her. It obviously doesn't match your values, but it was a good choice for her and all others involved.

If you ever decided to meet her and see how she lives you might re-think your position, but I doubt it. It's too easy to stand on a pre-conceived notion without much basis or thought. And, in fact, that goes to the heart of the whole story, namely, a pre-conceived notion of how coyotes must be. This with no real experience or sympathy for their plight. Meanwhile she is sensitive, fun, smart, well balanced and healthy. It may be hard for you to understand that, but it's true.

So, as you say, you won't change your opinion and I'd be surprised if you did because this story is an opportunity to look at something we know little about and actually learn something. Or to see an intelligent animal and find out there is much more to them than we thought. It requires some thought and some empathy.

There will always be a percentage who have their minds made up and are not interested. You represent that segment well. And that is part of the reason for telling her story. I'm not willing to let those who don't know, or have no experience, or who don't care, dominate the conversation. That is part of the reason that coyotes suffer as much as they do. Her story is for those that are curious, intelligent and caring. I will never declare that they are always good and always safe to be around, or that they are never a menace, but there is more to them than many realize.

Fortunately, there is a large majority of people that love dogs, is interested in survival against the odds and is interested in learning about wild dogs that they will never have first hand experience with. People interested in animal intelligence and animal behaviour. Sandy offers this story for those interested. She is alive and well to meet and learn from.

Perhaps you missed the point that Sandy was always free. No collars and no pens. She chose to be with us and we became her pack. She loves us, lived with us, taught us, learned from us, played with us, camped with us and traveled with us. She was about to be killed by animal control and we saved her by sending her to Southwest. Somehow, that message seems lost in your story about being free.

So, you can continue to not get it if you wish. Or try to declare, for her, what she would chose if you want. But you weren't there, were you. You haven't met her, have you?

John, you have a kind heart. . .