FEL bucket not staying up

[747driver]

My bucket was doing the same thing I cured the bucket and held it on relief for a min. then felt the top end of the cylinder and took apart the one that was warmest.This is what I found.
View attachment 546625
Loader only has 1 year warranty but the dealer gave me a new piston end. I suspect this was damaged from new. The bucket is starting to do the same thing on occasion but so far holding the cure on relief isn't heating 1 cylinder more than the other.

My tractor is a 2013. I have noticed over the past few months the curl position when up was bleeding down slowly which told me the seals were weakening. Guess they finally gave out ! How old is your tractor? Was it difficult to pull the assembly out of the cylinder ?

 

[Billrog]

Very easy to change 1st one went at approx. 300 hrs. I now have over 700 hrs. I never had to change any seals on my last small case tractor in 4500 hrs.
Pull the pin on the bucket end , undo the end of the gland pull out the rod and piston. At this point you will see the problem and either replace the damaged seal or all of them or the entire piston for $74 + tax.

 

[747driver]

Very easy to change 1st one went at approx. 300 hrs. I now have over 700 hrs. I never had to change any seals on my last small case tractor in 4500 hrs.
Pull the pin on the bucket end , undo the end of the gland pull out the rod and piston. At this point you will see the problem and either replace the damaged seal or all of them or the entire piston for $74 + tax.

Thanks for all the info ! I was going to take the complete cylinder off....but your way makes much more sense ! I have 640 hrs . I use the loader somewhat hard, so I guess I got good use before the seals went bad ! I will pull the piston and rod out tomorrow morning and see what I need to order. I priced the complete seal kits at $106 for each cylinder. Where did you get your parts for $76 ?

 

[Billrog]

I found my receipt the seals by themselves came to more than buying the seal kit piston item # CK08-0200-P $88.65 + tax from the dealer

 

[xcgreene]

I might be thinking backwards but the curl cylinders are sucked in in the curl position & push out to dump. If this is the case the oil in the rod end leaking back to the full bore would be less volume therefore allow the bucket to dump with a bad seal.

I suppose you'd have bit of a vacuum situation here, trying to expand the volume of the hydraulic fluid.

 

[747driver]

Took both cylinders apart. Bad upper seals. New parts on order from Michigan Iron...$225.

 

[Peter 315]

Not that bad $225 , Hope the new seals last longer

 

[747driver]

Not that bad $225 , Hope the new seals last longer

I use my loader somewhat hard so needless to say the seals take the beating ! Seems that very upper seal is what goes bad as it takes the pressure when the bucket curls all the way back. I will see if I get 625 hrs out of the new ones !!!

 

[Billrog]

Glad you were able to get it apart with out any problems. You may already know but I'll remind you it does't hurt to warm up those seals in hot water that you have to turn into a butterfly shape to install.

 

[LD1]

Glad you found the problem.

Lots of good info and some not so good in this thread so I'll offer my :2cents: just for future viewers.

1. No a cylinder cannot retract with faulty seals.
2. Retracting causing "drift" is usually associated with the main loader lift.
3. YES a cylinder can extend if seals are faulty.
4. Extending "drift" is usually associated with bucket cylinders or backhoe booms.

And a faulty valve leaking by internally can cause drift of any kind.

Hands down the easiest way to isolate the cylinder from the valve.....if in doubt.....is to uncouple the quick disconnects that most modern tractors are equipped with. But a word of caution is that it puts the fluid under pressure and makes it difficult to re-seat. So the method I like for testing curl cylinders is as follows....

1. Put bucket on ground.....level or slightly dumped......and disconnect curl hose QD's.
2. Raise loader in air and moniter if the bucket drifts further towards dumped position. If it does....cylinders faulty. If it doesnt....valve faulty.
3. Lower bucket back to ground to take pressure off couplers.
4. reconnect couplers

 

[VictorW]

After inspecting the seals, you probably noticed that they have two different side shape designs. Just a reminder to get the new ones on correctly.

 

[jabelding]

LD1 another thing to add is that you can destroy the seals by over forcing the cylinders by not using the bucket in the correct position. If you do a lot of forward or backwards scraping with the cutting edge vertical to the ground it can put a huge amount of force on the cylinder usually on these tractors it will buckle the 2 side plates that are laying by the cylinder in the pictures but if it doesn't it can really intensify the pressure in the cylinders and it will extrude out the seals like the ones shown. No pressure relief between the cylinders and the valve.

 

[ritcheyvs]

Thanks for the tear-down photos. I had not encountered this failure before (where fluid from the rod end leaked into closed end and cavitation compensated for the lost volume of the rod). I had it all wrong in my early post (#3). For some bonehead reason, I had it in my mind that the rod was extending to curl the bucket. One glance at a photo shots that was wrong.

 

[VashonFarmer]

Interesting thread. I had a similar symptom, but a different cause. My problem started with a fairly loud bang, then the grapple would fall down. When I broke it down I found the nut had come off the end of the rod inside the cylinder on one side. Tore down the other side and found it was also loose. This was on a machine with about 270 hours. While I had it apart, I replace the seals and used a good dose of thread lock on the nuts. Would like to see a lot more time before it happens again!

 

[747driver]

Glad you were able to get it apart with out any problems. You may already know but I'll remind you it does't hurt to warm up those seals in hot water that you have to turn into a butterfly shape to install.

I haven't taken the seals off yet. Don 't like to lose my reference. Now where would this 'butterfly' shape seal be at ? Possibly inside the metal head ? I will go get some O-ring lube to ease installation. Good tip on the warm water for the plastic seals !

 

[747driver]

After inspecting the seals, you probably noticed that they have two different side shape designs. Just a reminder to get the new ones on correctly.

Haven't taken them off yet until I get the new parts this week. Thanks...I will look closely to the way they go on. Is there a seal on the inside of the metal head ?

 

[747driver]

LD1 another thing to add is that you can destroy the seals by over forcing the cylinders by not using the bucket in the correct position. If you do a lot of forward or backwards scraping with the cutting edge vertical to the ground it can put a huge amount of force on the cylinder usually on these tractors it will buckle the 2 side plates that are laying by the cylinder in the pictures but if it doesn't it can really intensify the pressure in the cylinders and it will extrude out the seals like the ones shown. No pressure relief between the cylinders and the valve.

You are correct. Always careful about not letting the bucket get vertical while in contact with the ground. Sometimes though as most of us know the bucket gets out of position....ouch !

 

[747driver]

Interesting thread. I had a similar symptom, but a different cause. My problem started with a fairly loud bang, then the grapple would fall down. When I broke it down I found the nut had come off the end of the rod inside the cylinder on one side. Tore down the other side and found it was also loose. This was on a machine with about 270 hours. While I had it apart, I replace the seals and used a good dose of thread lock on the nuts. Would like to see a lot more time before it happens again!

Have read various threads about loose nuts. I am putting new self locking nuts on.

 

[xcgreene]

I haven't taken the seals off yet. Don 't like to lose my reference. Now where would this 'butterfly' shape seal be at ? Possibly inside the metal head ? I will go get some O-ring lube to ease installation. Good tip on the warm water for the plastic seals !

He's talking about folding the seal up like this:



either with a tool or your hands, to help install the seal. They can be quite difficult to install if you have not done one before and have not been shown.

He also mentions to warm the seals up in hot water to make them more pliable, which is a great tip.

 

[747driver]

He's talking about folding the seal up like this:

View attachment 546929

either with a tool or your hands, to help install the seal. They can be quite difficult to install if you have not done one before and have not been shown.

He also mentions to warm the seals up in hot water to make them more pliable, which is a great tip.

I watched a video " ask tractor mike" on youtube showing new seal replacment. The mechanic had one of there tools shown in your pic. It was on the inside of the metal head. If they are not to much I will get one. Thanks for the tips !