Propane Regulator Froze Up

[kcflhrc]

So I get home yesterday and it was 64 degrees in the house. I'm thinking oh great, here goes another thousand or 5. Switch thermostat to Emergency Heat, no go. Open up the furnace and the normal heart beat led is flashing 3 times in succession instead of it's normal on and of cycle. So I look up the codes, could be any number of things. Call my HVAC Buddy who installed the Heil heat pump which is dual fuel with propane back up. He says switch it to Emergency Heat, already tried that dummy. I have the lockout set at 30 degrees so it was way colder than that in eastern Kansas yesterday so the Heat Pump wasn't even trying to run. I go outside and check the propane tank, 70% full, I already knew it wasn't out of propane but I thought I would check anyway. I'm walking back to the house and I see the regulator by the house with 1/4" of ice on it. I'm thinking that has to be the problem. Wife gets me her turbo hair dryer, that doesn't faze it. I got 3 large pitchers of hot water to get the ice off of it then used the hair dryer to dry out the water, that worked fine. Go back inside, cycled the power on the furnace and Yippee it fires right up. I know, long story right? I had no idea those regulators could freeze up and not function. Any thoughts on this? Is this just normal? Never has happened before in 4 years but we did get a lot of ice. Did the propane company install something wrong? This is all brand new equipment in the last 4 years, propane tank, propane line and regulators. New Heat Pump also, everything new.

 

[oosik]

As far as your regulator icing up and quitting - I would say that's normal. Obviously pretty cold outside. When we lived in Glennallen, Ak we had to keep a heat lamp shining on the regulator all winter. We had a heat lamp shining on the propane tank and would turn it on half an hour before we used the propane cook stove. Amazing, you could go outside and actually hear the propane bubbling inside the tank.

 

[Larry Caldwell]

It sounds like a defective regulator with a sticky diaphragm. Typically you don't start starving the regulator for pressure until about 20 below.

Propane Butane Mixures - Evaporation Pressures

 

[brokenknee]

I lived in northern MN were the temps get to minus 30* F. Never once had my propane regulator freeze up. Maybe it's more humid were you live, it is not normal in these parts, have not heard on one of my neighbors or co-workers with a frozen propane regulator.

Have heard on the news the natural gas companies warn to keep your regulator free of snow. But then they are normally mounted on the house close to the ground.

 

[Dutch445]

what is the proximity of the tank to the regulator?
our regulator is on the outside of the house, and my 2 tanks
are 50' away behind a big pine tree and we've never had
a freeze up like that.

 

[kcflhrc]

This was my regulator at the house not at the tank and it is about 2 feet off the ground. But the ice like I said originally was horrible yesterday. Supposed to get more ice tonight but I have a packing blanked wrapped around it now so hopefully it will be OK. My tank is about 100 feet or so from the house and secondary regulator

 

[Larry Caldwell]

You could freeze a regulator in a block of ice and it would still work fine. All the moving parts are internal. It's a very simple mechanism. Here's a drawing, with the difference that a propane regulator is set to deliver one pressure so there is no adjustment handle. There should be no internal water to freeze, though any contaminant during assembly can gel and cause the poppet to stick.

Pressure regulator - Wikipedia

 

[kcflhrc]

You could freeze a regulator in a block of ice and it would still work fine. All the moving parts are internal. It's a very simple mechanism. Here's a drawing, with the difference that a propane regulator is set to deliver one pressure so there is no adjustment handle. There should be no internal water to freeze, though any contaminant during assembly can gel and cause the poppet to stick.

Pressure regulator - Wikipedia

Well, all I can tell you that when I removed the 1/4" of ice it worked fine after that so I kinda disagree with that theory. And the drawing you referenced is a single stage regulator.

 

[oosik]

We always thought our propane regulator was freezing up because, some how or other, there was moisture in the propane we received.

 

[LouNY]

A regulator can get froze up, in cold weather the pressure drop across a regulator creates a temperature drop, humid wet conditions the temperature of the regulator can be several degrees cooler then ambient, humid air on the atmospheric side of the diaphragm can easily create ice in the regulator housing, its not in the propane side but the atmospheric side. I have had to replace diaphragms from external ice damage. On industrial equipment heaters and boilers and high capacity burners. It's common to see frost on regulators and tanks in the spring and early summer from vaporization thermal effects.

 

[uglyboywith11fingers]

Up here in the great white north, the temp will occasionally get down to -20F. We've had our propane fueled hi-efficiency forced-air furnace since Jan 1991.
Never had a freeze up... high pressure regulator on the tank about 80 ft from house, low pressure regulator at the house, north side... back then the installers put a fitting on the vent port of the regulator and ran an underground line to a fence post about 20 ft from the house, because the regulator/entrance point was a few feet from a basement window. I suppose in our situation, the regulator should be even more protected from moisture/freeze-up.
must be an issue with your regulator...

 

[Peter 315]

I had natural gas at my house the meter and reg was covered in ice no gas I called the gas company . The guy shut the gas off and used a propane torch to melt the ice off the regulator

 

[George2615]

Similar situation here but propane only used for cook stove. When OAT gets down to single digits and / or there is ice and snow buildup on the regulator and tanks it freezes up and I have to go out with a heat gun to warm it up. Been doing this several times a year in winter for many years.

 

[teejk]

Never heard of an LP regulator freezing up here and it can get pretty cold. A friend does commercial heating and encountered a nat gas meter freeze-up once at a nursing home that required him to break the seals to get the heat back on but that was a component failure...guess they are all simple diaphragm type things and they can fail.

 

[jaxs]

Here's the story on propane regulators freezing(your supplier should know this and take care of it for you). This apply's to any system from 5 gallon grill bottle to several hundred gallon storage tanks. If a large amount of gas is flowing,a properly working regulator will be cooler than surrounding air,even in warm weather unless sun is keeping it warm. It is due to pressure drop inside regulator. In freezing temperature with moist air,ice can form on regulator without effecting function. Even when weather stay's cold and moist for days causing a thick layer of ice,the regulator will still function,,,,UNLESS,,,,,regulator has moisture INSIDE. A single drop of water inside regulator will shut it down. Moisture get's into tank and lines during assembly or is introduced when tank is being filled. If one has been using same system for a few years in similar weather without a problem and regulator stop's flowing,I would thaw it out and not worry unless it reoccurred shortly. In that case,I would choose a day with low humidity to pour denatured alcohol in regulator and tank side of line at regulator. Use fresh unopened alcohol and work fast to open and close line. If you remove regulator,plug both lines while regulator is off. If it happen's again shortly,chances are the tank has water in it. The supplier can transfer your fuel into another tank and pour alcohol into your tank. Few will do it but it is much better to pull a vacuum on tank to remove all traces of moisture (exactly same procedure air conditioning techs do every day). In actuality the principle of pressure drop equating to cooling effect is exactly what make's your refrigerator and air conditioners work. If you buy an empty used tank,beit a grill bottle or large storage tank,you should take remedial measures for water. Water lay's at bottom of tank so if there's a great amount, most can be poured out by inverting tank. A word of caution. The water contain's odorant and if you get it on you or your clothes it's next to impossible to wash off so be very carful. That's why few suppliers are willing to evacuate tanks. Ditto for your buddy who own's a refrigeration vacuum pump. His pump will stink after evacuating a propane tank. Now you know why some regulators freeze and others don't.

 

[teejk]

Here's the story on propane regulators freezing(your supplier should know this and take care of it for you). This apply's to any system from 5 gallon grill bottle to several hundred gallon storage tanks. If a large amount of gas is flowing,a properly working regulator will be cooler than surrounding air,even in warm weather unless sun is keeping it warm. It is due to pressure drop inside regulator. In freezing temperature with moist air,ice can form on regulator without effecting function. Even when weather stay's cold and moist for days causing a thick layer of ice,the regulator will still function,,,,UNLESS,,,,,regulator has moisture INSIDE. A single drop of water inside regulator will shut it down. Moisture get's into tank and lines during assembly or is introduced when tank is being filled. If one has been using same system for a few years in similar weather without a problem and regulator stop's flowing,I would thaw it out and not worry unless it reoccurred shortly. In that case,I would choose a day with low humidity to pour denatured alcohol in regulator and tank side of line at regulator. Use fresh unopened alcohol and work fast to open and close line. If you remove regulator,plug both lines while regulator is off. If it happen's again shortly,chances are the tank has water in it. The supplier can transfer your fuel into another tank and pour alcohol into your tank. Few will do it but it is much better to pull a vacuum on tank to remove all traces of moisture (exactly same procedure air conditioning techs do every day). In actuality the principle of pressure drop equating to cooling effect is exactly what make's your refrigerator and air conditioners work. If you buy an empty used tank,beit a grill bottle or large storage tank,you should take remedial measures for water. Water lay's at bottom of tank so if there's a great amount, most can be poured out by inverting tank. A word of caution. The water contain's odorant and if you get it on you or your clothes it's next to impossible to wash off so be very carful. That's why few suppliers are willing to evacuate tanks. Ditto for your buddy who own's a refrigeration vacuum pump. His pump will stink after evacuating a propane tank. Now you know why some regulators freeze and others don't.

I suppose that with this year's LP shortage we might have a situation where inferior gas got into the system. I have noticed that on the gas grill from time to time where it just didn't seem to burn right. As for the "stink", my shop has run out of gas twice (even though it's on "keep-fill" and "pre-paid"). Both times I knew it immediately when I opened the door.

 

[jaxs]

"my shop has run out of gas twice (even though it's on "keep-fill" and "pre-paid")"
Let me guess,there's no competition in your area. In Texas where running out is far less critical,compitition is furious and suppliers give you guarantees you will never be without if you sign up for keep filled. That is rapidly changing as Amerigas buy's out small companies.

 

[teejk]

"my shop has run out of gas twice (even though it's on "keep-fill" and "pre-paid")"
Let me guess,there's no competition in your area. In Texas where running out is far less critical,compitition is furious and suppliers give you guarantees you will never be without if you sign up for keep filled. That is rapidly changing as Amerigas buy's out small companies.

We live in "propane country" so competition is not the problem. We lease the tanks from the local Co-op meaning we are "married" to them. They are consolidating with other local Co-ops and seem to be having great difficulties in managing the "synergies". That was outage #1 in the shop a few years ago where new drivers merely forgot to fill when they filled the house tank not far away. The latest outage was due to the recent shortage where they were trying to ration supplies...wet grain led to a lot of drying and then we ran into what is probably one of the coldest winters on record.

 

[RNeumann]

Regulators are sized for the amount of flow/BTUs needed. The bigger they are the more money they are. As you are seeing several folks in very cold climates don’t have issues.
If it’s undersized it can create a condition that would cause some internal freezing issues as the propane goes from highish to low pressure (also correct above regarding two regulators).
This is a long shot that hasn’t been mentioned- not the first thing to look at.

Bottom line- their are millions of propane regulators in this world that don’t need special care or maintenance depending on temperature- they just work till they don’t.....unless it was the wrong one to begin with (too small, wrong size etc)

 

[dennis103]

I had this same problem last year on 2 different propane installations. They were both 125000 BTU hot dawg heaters. When it got down below 0 one or the other would freeze the regulator and the heater would go out. They changed regulators tried different things for a couple of weeks. Then they finally put a heavy dose of what ever kind of alcohol they use on propane for moisture and the problem went away on both units. This year no problems and it has been colder this year than last year. Both of my heating units, tanks and all equipment was new when installed. After problem went away with alcohol they figured there was some moisture in the new tanks. Hope this helps your situation.