Cold weather and junk fuel

[Phillip w]

There seems to be alot of guy struggling getting and keeping their tractors running in this cold. Here is another example of patience and hanging in there. I believe I got a hold of either summer diesel or junk fuel. I had trouble about a week ago, put a fuel filter on and added some supplement. Couple days later below zero and more trouble. I bought what I knew was winter blend and more supplement. Got the massey going (it finally made it to the twenties) and let it run about an hour and fifteen minutes. Fiddled with the allis. It would run, suck the fuel filter dry and die. Got a new fuel filter even though I just replaced filter a week ago. Got it running and let it run an hour and half. The took allis for a spin and it did good. Added 10 gallons of winter fuel and some more power service. Working good now. The first 20-30 minutrd I had that allis running, she looped and sputtered and what not. You would have thought it had bad injectors, fuel filter plugging, fuel system sucking air or something. Just had to let it run and do its thing. I post this to help folks cause cold weather and junk fuel can really give you a fit. You'll think something is really wrong and it is just cold weather and or junk fuel.

 

[Jerry/MT]

There seems to be alot of guy struggling getting and keeping their tractors running in this cold. Here is another example of patience and hanging in there. I believe I got a hold of either summer diesel or junk fuel. I had trouble about a week ago, put a fuel filter on and added some supplement. Couple days later below zero and more trouble. I bought what I knew was winter blend and more supplement. Got the massey going (it finally made it to the twenties) and let it run about an hour and fifteen minutes. Fiddled with the allis. It would run, suck the fuel filter dry and die. Got a new fuel filter even though I just replaced filter a week ago. Got it running and let it run an hour and half. The took allis for a spin and it did good. Added 10 gallons of winter fuel and some more power service. Working good now. The first 20-30 minutrd I had that allis running, she looped and sputtered and what not. You would have thought it had bad injectors, fuel filter plugging, fuel system sucking air or something. Just had to let it run and do its thing. I post this to help folks cause cold weather and junk fuel can really give you a fit. You'll think something is really wrong and it is just cold weather and or junk fuel.

May not be junk fuel! Could be condensate in the fuel and that happens naturally especially in humid climates with low usage. Minimize condensate( you won' eliminate it) by keeping the tank as full as possible. Drain the fuel /water separator on a regular basis and collect the drainage in a clear container and look for water. Use fuel treatments.

 

[jbrumberg]

I agree with Jerry.

For a lot of reasons (like Jerry mentioned) my last 5G jerrycan #1 Diesel fuel refill had a "double load" of both PowerService White bottle and PowerService 911. It reached cloud point somewhere between -7F and -10F. Tractor started easily at 0F/1F after 3 hours of preheating the engine block and hydraulic filter. The white bottle is formulated to lowering the gel point temperature and the 911 is formulated to remove water.

I also now use a water/fuel separation funnel to fill the tractor's fuel tank.

 

[bkrgi]

IMO it is bad fuel for the conditions.....if you're required to constantly add additives to keep things running then the fuel supply really does suck.
Too me water should never be that problematic or at least nothing the water separator can't easily handle unless it is bad fuel from the supplier
Winter cold requires the proper grade of diesel and I'm not sure that happens in many many parts......guess global warming means no need for it hahahahaa

Anyways spring is coming and the issues will disappear for another yr

Good luck everyone in the meantime.

 

[Phillip w]

I think where I got in trouble is I got in a bind for fuel and bought some in town at the service station. It was either junk fuel or not winters blend. Might have worked out in July. Any way. The old allis Chalmers 185 is so simple to deal with. The biggest inconvenience is working around the loader arms. All you have is a fuel tank,fuel line to a hand pump to prime system, a screw on fuel filter feeding the injector pump and then lines to the injector. All mechanical and no electric or electronic whizzos. There is no water separator. Just got some good winter blend from my usually supplier and couple bottles of fuel supplement. Just kept mixes the winter blend with what probably was summer fuel and adding supplement. When through 3 different fuel filter in less that a week. At one point it was 15 below and I think I was having problems with gelling until I got some winters blend and a couple bottles of supplement mixed in. My basic point is watch where you are getting your fuel, even if your in a bind and you run to town and grab 10 gallons. Once the truck show up and filled my barrel, that solved the fuel supplier issue. I don't know why I was so dumb to let my barrel run down. Just not paying attention I guess.

 

[jbrumberg]

My problem was very old #2 used in 0F temperatures. The only time I really had diesel gelling problems was years ago when MA mandated Ultra Low Sulfur Diesel for on road use diesel. Every diesel owner/operator had gelling problems then. I ranted and raved on many threads in TBN about ULSD.

Around here the high volume stations offering diesel fuel are adding additional kerosene to the amended #1 diesel fuel they get from the regional distributors.

I am happy with a -7F to -10F cloud point with my current diesel "mix."

 

[jdom84]

Ive never had to purchase diesel out side of the state of Montana... But up here in the frozen north, all year round, off-road (dyed) diesel I use says its good for -40°f on the pumps. And I'm pretty sure #1 says the same thing but I don't get that because the cost. Is off-road diesel not an option everywhere or is it different grades elsewhere?

 

[Phillip w]

Around here we call it off road or ag fuel. It is dyed red and I buy it from an oil company that sends a truck out to fill my barrel. I've never had fuel issues or gelling with that supplier.

 

[jbrumberg]

If my memory serves me correctly in MA there is on road, off road/agriculture, and marine grades of diesel fuel available. They were all dyed different colors. It really messed up the marine industry. I believe that MA requires that all diesel fuels be ultra low sulfur.

I would have to have off road/ag fuel delivered here which is not needed for the quantity of fuel I use.

 

[Jerry/MT]

Ive never had to purchase diesel out side of the state of Montana... But up here in the frozen north, all year round, off-road (dyed) diesel I use says its good for -40°f on the pumps. And I'm pretty sure #1 says the same thing but I don't get that because the cost. Is off-road diesel not an option everywhere or is it different grades elsewhere?

Off road diesel is just road diesel with red dye and you don't pay road tax. It's blended for winter by mixing with #1 diesel and winter additives. I have never seen summer diesel rated to -40F in my part of the world. Summer diesel has more BTU's per gallon because it has the long chain waxy components in it. Not so the winter fuel.

 

[jdom84]

Off road diesel is just road diesel with red dye and you don't pay road tax. It's blended for winter by mixing with #1 diesel and winter additives. I have never seen summer diesel rated to -40F in my part of the world. Summer diesel has more BTU's per gallon because it has the long chain waxy components in it. Not so the winter fuel.

Yeah, summer diesel #2 is not rated for -40°f and I don't think anyone said it is. If off-road diesel is the same as summer road diesel #2 but with dye in it, then the cans I store under my lean-to which are from summer should have gelled up in the last few weeks/months when it was sub zero temps. But when I refilled my tractor to move some snow it poured out of the can just fine. My family buys 1000 gallons at time in May/June for the mine and I will often take a few empty cans out there and fill up to bring home. Sometimes they will last me into the winter. In the 10 years I've been using off-road diesel, never had an issue with gelling but I could just be lucky I guess. Ill check the big tank next time I'm out there and see if its gelled.

I suppose it could be chalked up to each manufacturer doing something different. Suppliers offering different products and loads of misinformation all over the internet. Maybe these stations don't go through off-road diesel as fast as others do, so they just keep the winterized all year round? But if a fuel station says their diesel is rated for subzero temps and it gels at 15°f, everyone who bought it would be pissed.

Ill take a picture the next time I'm at a pump with the sign...

 

[AxleHub]

Jdom

If they put 1000 gallons in but the tank is outside or not in a heated area, the chances are good they are giving you winterized fuel or #1. Standard for outdoor tanks is #1 so it doesn't gel and stop your heating units.

 

[AxleHub]

Just a reminder, if you believe you have wax or water in your tractor fuel tank, drain or pump out your tractor and run the fuel thru a Mr. Funnel. They work great and come in several sizes. If the fuel has dirt, wax, water or other, it filters it and you can pour it in a bottle and complain to your supplier. Also note, fuel in metal cans sitting on a concrete floor will attract moisture into the fuel.

 

[jbrumberg]

I never had a problem with water in my diesel fuel when I used a Mr. Funnel. I now have a new one.

For anyone considering purchasing one they do leave some residual diesel fuel behind with the filtering process.

I can live with that.

 

[Phillip w]

Very good points. I didn't drain tank, just kept putting power service and winter fuel in to dilute what was in the tank. It worked , but had to went thru 3 fuel filter. Kind of a big inconveminence and hassle but got through it. I really think I got summer fuel and that is what screwed every thing up.

 

[RjCorazza]

I never had a problem with water in my diesel fuel when I used a Mr. Funnel. I now have a new one.

For anyone considering purchasing one they do leave some residual diesel fuel behind with the filtering process.

I can live with that.

Yea, I just pour the leftover back into the unfiltered container unless I notice junk in it. I used the Mr Funnel several years ago to cleanup 12 gallons of diesel that I stupidly contaminated with water (using the last couple of gallons from a barrel stored outside).

 

[AxleHub]

I have a heavy duty 1 qt. Bottle for gas and another one for diesel. After filtering I pour the residual 2 or 3 ounces into the appropriate bottle and then I can see if there are contaminates or water. This tells me about the quality of my supplier. The when the bottle gets about half full I pour it in the filter during the next use. I never pour back into the supply can because I lose any reference point to quality.

No waste just good information.

 

[RjCorazza]

That’s a good idea. Even lightly contaminated fuel would become very obvious.

 

[jbrumberg]

That’s a good idea. Even lightly contaminated fuel would become very obvious.

I agree. AxelHub- Thanks for for the idea.

 

[Jstpssng]

Off road diesel is just road diesel with red dye and you don't pay road tax. It's blended for winter by mixing with #1 diesel and winter additives. I have never seen summer diesel rated to -40F in my part of the world. Summer diesel has more BTU's per gallon because it has the long chain waxy components in it. Not so the winter fuel.

Up here the off road is often high sulfur.