Tractor Sizing Kioti CK3510 CK4010 difference in HP - why?

[hillwood]

I'M sure some computer software person can figure out how to get more power with different programming. They are not going to bother if the demand and profits aren't​ there.

 

[MaDiNfO]

Made a new post about this:

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/kioti-owning-operating/382773-ck3510-ck4010.html


reprogram those units its easy.

 

[deezler]

View attachment 510960View attachment 510959

Whoa, thanks for sharing! The 35 HP calibration is much more fuel efficient. I'm pining for a 3510H but it will probably take a couple more years before I can swing it. This post helped solidify my decision for not spending extra cash on the 4010, thats for sure! Sorry, not trying to be a jerk after you bought the 40.

Honestly I'm quite suprised the BSFC curves are that different. Would have thought the only significant variation would come on the top end (peak power) where the power clearly differs more.

 

[deezler]

But also, congratulations! What a fine machine. Thats exactly how I want to spec mine out too, just the 3510 instead of the 40. Do you mind sharing what you paid, all told? My local dealer here advertises base model 3510s with no options for $17,999 on craigslist. Which I am hoping means there is still some room for negotiation.

 

[vvanders]

The HP difference in a CRDI system has nothing to do with the pump or injector size. The pump only pressurizes the fuel in the rail. The injectors are electronically​ pulsed by the ECM. The software in the ECM will determine how much fuel to deliver. More fuel, more power.
It is more cost effective to make all the parts the same and control the output with software.
Look at all the power up devices that are made for diesel trucks. The turbo boost and fuel are all controlled by electronics.
Unless you are talking to an industry trained service technician, the person that you talked to at the dealership doesn't know. They might be thinking old school.

Makes sense, it's probably easier to have a single assembly line/parts/etc.

Similar thing over the in CPU space. Different speed chips within the same family are identical. They're all made on a single large wafer and then cut up. They divide the wafer into 'bins' and then test them all as they come off the line. Generally bins closer to the center have better tolerances so those turn into the high performance chips.

I wonder if they do any similar QA process for engines or if it's all in software.

 

[meanstreak]

I work on diesel trucks at a domestic car dealership. If we work on a truck with warranty engine issues​, the first step is to verify ECM calibrations. If the calibration​s have been rewritten, the warranty is voided. Every time a reflash is done, the number counter goes up, even if it is put back to the original calibration.

Good to know

 

[kantuckid]

True but it must be balanced against the tractor use for "light timber management". Cabs and woods don't get along very well. If this is a full time 4 season home then perhaps the cab would be more important. Just be careful (or include an annual glass/cab repair budget).

Maybe the OP needs a cab but i can safely say it would be a waste of money for me. Yes, it does get cold here in E KY ans some years my 1/2 mile of private road seems to need cleared all too often. Winter clothing is much cheaper than having my tractor hampered by a cab enclosure. I'm from KS so i get why cabs matter in long hot filed work. Truth be known none of my locals had cabs back when i was younger- even those working large acres. Now, they makes sense for certain users, especially in long hours of below zero temps.
:thumbdown: Cold, hot or in between they don't like the woods.

Deezler- the CK3510's are less $$$ than that price you mention at dealers where I priced new tractors that have been on the yard longer and unsold.

 

[finn1]

Makes sense, it's probably easier to have a single assembly line/parts/etc.

Similar thing over the in CPU space. Different speed chips within the same family are identical. They're all made on a single large wafer and then cut up. They divide the wafer into 'bins' and then test them all as they come off the line. Generally bins closer to the center have better tolerances so those turn into the high performance chips.

I wonder if they do any similar QA process for engines or if it's all in software.

It's generally all software, the exception being there may be power level breaks where a turbo, injector, or even piston may change when going from the lowest to highest power level on a given engine family.

I worked in engine engineering for a large manufacturer of farm equipment back in the 80's when we implemented a product rationalization and improvement program for a family engines that included two 3 cylinder displacements, three 4 cylinder displacements, and three 6 cylinder displacements, all on the same platform, most with na and turbocharged versions.

Manufacturing logistics were a nightmare, as we had to order and inventory unique internal parts for all of those engines, and qualify each unique configuration. We ended up with turbo and na versions of one each 3, 4, and 6 cylinder engines.

With today's emission certification requirements, you couldn't build enough test cells or hire enough engineers to support the complexity.

Modern thinking is to develop a minimal number of engine series with common internal components, to the extent possible, to maximize economy of scale, and use electronics to provide product differentiation, i.e. Unique power ratings for differing customer needs and wants.

So, yes, a 25 hp Diesel may differ from a 40 hp version only in electronic calibration, but if you want the increased performance, it's available, at a fair price.

Profit isn't a bad word.

 

[kantuckid]

I'm, remembering back when the new Beetles came out and the TDI (diesel version) had aftermarket folks making "chips" for performance improvements-BIG! ones too. It was possible to go way up in HP yet improve MPG. I was a frequent visitor on Fred's TDI- a forum centered on that engine and mostly performance enhancement. To compare-back in those days ~ Y2K time a chip that did what tractor mfg.'s want $1,000's for was a few hundred dollars and only early on when the idea was fresh, probably got cheaper over time.

 

[apatche1964]

I have to correct something here. I just bought a 2017 ck4010 after trying a ck3510 i exchanged it for the 40 because the 35 wouldnt pull my 5 ft woods cutter only in lo range. But as for the comment that they have identical loader isn,t true the 4010 has lift capacity of 1835 lbs . It is a completely different loader