Save $$$ - Heat with Wood

[4570Man]

Not to ask a stupid question, but what is a rick? Never heard the term before. Everyone I know uses cords, a cord being defined as 4x4x8 feet.

32 square feet on the face with no specifications on length.

 

[4570Man]

It all depends on species too.

Wet and green, elm.....that stuff can still have a high moisture content even after being split and seasoning for 2 years or more.

Nothing fancy to measure, but when you throw it on a fire, and it boils/steams water out the ends, it's too wet. And elm does that even after a few years.

Ash on the other hand, cut, split, stack in summer. Burn that winter and have no issues at all.

Been cutting tops from a logged woods that was logged 3 years ago. Summer cutting and splitting is winter's wood. So it had 3 years to season prior to splitting, and a good 6 months after.

Maple....maple is wet. If you don't cut it within the first few years it rots before it drys. Red oak good for a little longer even though the outer white ring gets a bit soft, the red inner wood stays nice.

Ash....Ash is about the best firewood for a seller IMO. Splits nice. Low moisture even when green, means it don't rot fast, and it dries quick. Not as dense as some others like oaks and hickories....but best all around IMO.

So moisture and seasoning time all depends. So there is no easy answer. Some wood dries faster or starts drier. Drying time depend on if left as logs (standing or down), or if split. How small/large are the splits? Etc etc.

I have NEVER had any complaints about wood I sell. Only praise for quantity and quality.

Have had many customers state that "this is the most wood anyone has ever brought, you sure that's only a cord" (yea....many scammers out there that think a tossed on pickup load is a cord....and advertises as such of $95 as opposed to my "true" cord for $160) it just amazes customers. Hard to believe that so many people are that ignorant to what an actual cord is, and just take the deliverers word for it. Have also had customers say they have turned away many loads claiming to me seasoned, when clearly they weren't. Never a complaint.

I only wish I had time to cut hundreds of cords a year, because I have no doubt I'd be able to sell all of them and have happy customers. And run the wannabes selling green junk by the pickup load claiming it's a cord a packing. Just don't have the time or equipment to do more than 20-30 cord a season

I sell most of my wood green but it's not advertised as seasoned. I see a bunch of wood advertised as seasoned that's clearly not. I've never bought any wood to see what the amounts are. I've had a lot of complements on my wood. I've loosed quality control way up after I released what my competition was. My wood is still the best on the local market. I've had people complement my "seasoned" wood that wasn't seasoned or advertised as such. The wood in question had laid in the sun for about a week and the edges looked dry.

 

[Larry Caldwell]

You have to compare to the cost of a conventional heating system:

- Hotel bills because your house became uninhabitable during power outages. $2600
- Triple bypass surgery because you didn't get any exercise, $36,000
- Wheelchair accessible bathroom because you didn't stay on your feet. $15,000
- Loss of income because your SS and pensions stopped when you died. $85,000

 

[Industrial Toys]

I bought the hose too! Why do we do what we do?

 

[4570Man]

You have to compare to the cost of a conventional heating system:

- Hotel bills because your house became uninhabitable during power outages. $2600
- Triple bypass surgery because you didn't get any exercise, $36,000
- Wheelchair accessible bathroom because you didn't stay on your feet. $15,000
- Loss of income because your SS and pensions stopped when you died. $85,000

I've got a guy that helps me split wood just for the exercise and won't take any money.

 

[TnAndy]

Each to their own. I enjoy it, and will continue to do it as long as I'm physically able. Great excuse to get outside in the fresh and get some exercise.

One nice thing about wood heat no one's mentioned so far is somewhat intangible, but the house just feels warmer. A thermometer can read the same temperature when we run the oil furnace, but the house doesn't feel the same.
The woodstove hearth is a great place to dry boots, gloves, etc...nice & warm when you put them on. :thumbsup: I love it, wouldn't dream of heating any other way.

Amen. Come in from the cold and back up to a vent of heat pump air at 85 degrees and freeze your backside off for an hour, or back up to a rip roaring fire in the stove and be warm in a minute.....no comparison in my book.

As I told my wife, when it comes time to go to 'the home', if they ain't got a wood stove, keep looking !

 

[4570Man]

Amen. Come in from the cold and back up to a vent of heat pump air at 85 degrees and freeze your backside off for an hour, or back up to a rip roaring fire in the stove and be warm in a minute.....no comparison in my book.

As I told my wife, when it comes time to go to 'the home', if they ain't got a wood stove, keep looking !

Agree 100 percent. And while most people dislike the uneven heat of the wood stove it fits our family well. Cold? Go sit on the couch by the wood stove. It'll be 85-105 degrees depending on which end if the fire is rolling. Not up for that, go sit on the other couch that's probably 70 degrees.

 

[ultrarunner]

Exactly ^^^

Plus no guilt tossing another piece of wood on the fire...

 

[4570Man]

Exactly ^^^

Plus no guilt tossing another piece of wood on the fire...

And while in most cases another heat source would be capable of maintaining higher temperatures few people are actually going to pay for it. If I was paying for natural gas heat I'd settle for using more blankets. Burning wood doesn't directly cost me money so I can toss more in.

 

[goeduck]

We built our house in 93. The plans had a fireplace. I had the architect remove it and replace with more closet space. I like my switch on the wall. And now I have a generator that allows me to use that switch no matter what.

No fireplace? How does Santa get in the house?

 

[goeduck]

I burn wood and have a heat pump as backup. Insert is rated at 86 percent efficient. Almost all the wood is from windfalls that need to be cleaned up any way. So I haul and burn either way. This way I chunk up the trunk and larger branches which makes the burn pile burn faster and require less tending (have to be on site at all times here) which saves me time. I like the exercise. As far as uneven heat, I have three small fans that circulate the house, stays very uniform.

 

[TnAndy]

Plus no guilt tossing another piece of wood on the fire...

Yep. As I tell my wife: "Burn Baby Burn".

We keep the living room area probably in the high 70/low 80 range and it feels great.

2 of my 4-cord sheds:

 

[Turbys_1700]

I burned wood many years ago. Had a wood stove in the basement with a galvanized enclosure around the stove. The heat was piped into my existing duct work from my oil furnace. Thermostatically controlled fan attached to the duct work. I could load up the stove at night and the furnace would kick on in the morning. With that set up my yearly oil usage went from 700 gallons per year to 100. The savings were substantial.

Now at 58 I no longer wish to be in the woods cutting. The wood was free here on the farm. The cost was in the upkeep of saws, splitter, etc... The exercise was great but now I am not physically able to do it anymore.

 

[LD1]

Comin late so sorry if this has already been answered.... What did the Geothermal cost?

My house didnt have any ductwork at all. So had to do that as well.

4 ton geo furnace + ground loops + pump center and manifolds + second water heater for buffer tank = $9500
Ductwork installed was $2500

So I had 12k in the unit.

Federal 30% credit came to ~$3600
Got a $1000 credit from the power company for installing geo
Got a $400 credit from the power company for the new water heater

So $12,500 - $5000 = Total cost of my system $7500

Sure, one may question all that cost, and the fact that I was already set up to burn wood. But I wouldnt say I was really "set-up" to burn wood. There was a chimney basement access. So woodburner was in the basement, on the opposite end of the house as the bedrooms. To make the house livable...I had to run about 3 box fans + the blower on the wood burner just to even out the heat. A less than Ideal setup. And still didnt address the issue of summer time air conditioning, that I was running multiple window units.

So I had to do something. Ductwork cost was a given.....$2500. I could have tied ductwork into the wood furnace.....and still had no ac. I could add AC with a noisy outside unit. I could have gone Propane / conventional heat pump / AC....and dealt with a tank. Or a few other options. But, when you factor in the cost of the Geothermal with the credits I could get back, Geothermal was the only thing that makes sense.

Heating with wood is high-maintenance. Gotta keep feeding it, keep the ashes cleared out, keep the chimney cleaned, keep dry wood cut and tossed in the basement, etc. All things that become a PITA when I work 12hr shifts (14hrs + away from home counting drive time).

Like I say, I'll trade the 6 cord of wood that I would burn in a winter, for enough cash to buy my heat by other means. So its the best of both worlds. Joy and exercise of cutting and cleaning up the woods, but none of the hassle or mess in the house. Just set my T-stat and be comfortable with no other input from me.

Guys that are already setup for burning wood, sure the initial cost of switching to a different fuel source is high. And it would take awhile to recoup that cost. I am not suggesting everyone that heats with wood run out and spend 10k to get away from wood.

But what I dont understand is those designing/building a new house with wood as the primary heat.....or when hose shopping, looking for a house with wood as the primary heat.

The cost of a chimney, furnace, etc. Is not really any more than the cost of any other type of heating system.

And where I live, AC is equally important to many. Now if one could figure out how to get AC out of a wood burner????

 

[ovrszd]

LD1, thanks for the cost explanation. We are considering a new house. Wanting to compare all heat sources. I think the primary concern should be a well insulated structure. Then het/AC type isn't quite as important. I would never consider wood as a primary source in a new structure.

 

[FTG-05]

I noticed you didn't include oil as a heat source. Dunno about where you live, but here it's pretty much the only other practical alternative. The pricing on both oil and propane fluctuate considerably...they've both been sort of low past few years, but that can (and usually does) change quickly.

I buy log-length grapple loads every 3 years or so and cut/split it myself. Unfortunately, most of the woods on my property consists of pine, spruce or poplar...none of which are worth the bother. I used to be able to get a permit for "free" dead-and-down wood in the national forest (I'd go where it had been logged recently and cut the tops, branches, etc.), but ever since they put in a couple biomass power plants in the area, all that gets chipped.




Each to their own. I enjoy it, and will continue to do it as long as I'm physically able. Great excuse to get outside in the fresh and get some exercise.

One nice thing about wood heat no one's mentioned so far is somewhat intangible, but the house just feels warmer. A thermometer can read the same temperature when we run the oil furnace, but the house doesn't feel the same.
The woodstove hearth is a great place to dry boots, gloves, etc...nice & warm when you put them on. :thumbsup: I love it, wouldn't dream of heating any other way.

Well said and I agree!

This year's processing wood pile:

That's beetle killed Pine in the grapple (one of two) with Hickory, Sugar Maple and a White Oak already in the pile. I cut the Pine and Hickory down; the SM and WO were downed by wind storms.

 

[kenmac]

You have to compare to the cost of a conventional heating system:

- Hotel bills because your house became uninhabitable during power outages. $2600
- Triple bypass surgery because you didn't get any exercise, $36,000
- Wheelchair accessible bathroom because you didn't stay on your feet. $15,000
- Loss of income because your SS and pensions stopped when you died. $85,000

Power outage ? LOL I have back up heat source that doesn't require power to operate. If needed,I also have a generator

 

[LD1]

LD1, thanks for the cost explanation. We are considering a new house. Wanting to compare all heat sources. I think the primary concern should be a well insulated structure. Then het/AC type isn't quite as important. I would never consider wood as a primary source in a new structure.

Not sure, but I think last year was the last for the 30% federal credit???

WITHOUT the cost of the excavation, Geothermal should be real close in cost to a conventional air to air heat pump.

Meaning that the cost of the equipment is real similar. Basically you have a blower and a compressor In both units. Geothermal adds a some plumbing for water and circulating pumps. Air to air adds an outdoor unit and outdoor fan.

I priced similar quality and brand 4-ton units both air to air, and geothermal. Cost difference is nil for equip.

Cost to install (again, not counting trenches and loops).....should also be similar. If anything it should be less expensive for the geo. The air to air has two units to set, one inside and one out. Copper lines to connect the two and sweat together. Two places to run power to. And then charging the system. Geo's are pre-charged, one point of power, and a single unit to set. Basic plumbing and you are done.

Now why did I explain all of that? Because I had every intention of hiring an HVAC company for the install. And at the time I wasnt sure if I was going geo, so wanted to get some quotes for both Geo and air to air. WITH the understanding that I would handle all the digging of the trenches and backfill. (I own a backhoe). Thinking that the cost, with me handling the excavation, would be real similar for 4-ton units since to the installer....material cost is similar......as is installation time/cost.

NOPE. Was getting quotes in the $12k ballpark for air to air (including ductwork), and quotes in the $18-$19k range for geo including ductwork (again with me doing the ground loops). Three different companies, all three similar differences in pricing.

When questioning them as to why the geo was so much more, when the "install" (their labor and time) will be similar, as is the cost of the equipment itself?

Kept getting the same freaking answer. Well the cost is going to be about the same since you will get a 30% credit.:confused2: That will make either option about $12k." And for the same cost, wouldnt you rather have geothermal?"

Um, NO. I aint getting the 30% credit......you, mr HVAC guy are. Since you are overcharging me ~30% on the geothermal and hoping Im too stupid to see whats going on. The fact is the Geo should only cost me ~12k to have you install it, THEN I get my 30% credit.....SHOULD make it alot cheaper than the air to air.

Got alot of stuttering and stammering from all three contractors when questioned on this. I have no doubt they are making a whole lot more profit on the geo just because they "can". Since the fed had the 30% deal.

Sent all 3 packing and installed my own. Saved a ton of money, and got a better system in the long run since none of the quotes were figuring on a buffer tank for the domestic hot water.

Now that the 30% credit is done (I think), I look for the quotes to be alot closer now, since in reality the cost of the systems is similar. The only additional cost to a turn-key geo system should be whatever you choose for loops. Some do closed loop, some do wells, some do pond, or open loops, etc. If you can handle your own loops, everything else beyond that should be real similar in cost of a conventional air to air. If it isnt, you are getting screwed.

 

[Looking4new]

20 years ago, way back when furnace oil (diesel fuel)[my oil furnace is jetted to burn diesel] was cheap, I burned $3,000.oo worth of oil in one winter. I switched to wood heat the following year and only burned $2,000.oo worth of wood. Furnace was a 85% efficient then and it still is now. It gets cleaned out and a new nozzle in every year. My two chimneys get swept every year by a service that is qualified to do so.
I have no clue what the % efficiency is on the wood stoves, but I can tell you that they are both Regency and are both rated to heat 2400 square feet.

 

[4570Man]

You're playing a dangerous game by trying to justify it either way. If you get to sliding down that slope you'll probably find your should sell most of your life possessions.