New Septic System Troubles

[KYErik]

Do you have a sizable ditch within 100 feet of your house? If so, it might be easier for them to replumb your washing machine and shower drain lines into a 2" grey water line (assuming grey water lines are legal in your state). Installing a grey water line might save them some time and $ over making a major expansion to your drain field and it would likely result in your system lasting a lot longer. Even if they can add just enough leach field to keep it from coming out the top now in the dry summer, you might have the same problem sometime in a year or two during an exceptionally wet period.

 

[jrdepew]

Quick Update...

Finally started to really draw the attorney card about a month or two ago. Suddenly, everyone became a lot more responsive.

Long long long story short...

A different septic company came by and dug some small test holes by hand...easy digging in this sand. They verified that the organics/clay layer was never removed. They stopped hitting organics/clay about 16" down.

Another soil classifier was also sent by and did soil borings...he also verified that the organics/clay was not removed. He also discovered some roots and clay in the fill that was supposed to be clean sand fill. He advised removing this fill where possible and replacing it with the fill that is to be brought in (see below).

Both of them reported into the engineer. We all met and/or talked on the phone a few times and devised a plan to get this thing fixed once and for all.

1. All of the original septic system minus one of the original beds will be removed and the spoils hauled away. One bed is being left in service so we can stay in the house. This is a big deal since my wife and I both work from home.
2. As much of the soil in the buffer zone and taper of the original bed that is being left behind is to be removed.
3. Septic installer will continue to remove material until all organics/roots/clay has been passed. The installer advised that this has been as much as 4ft of material in past installs, but is usually <2ft.
4. Clean fill will be brought in to replace all removed soil and to build up the area of the septic system to original grade. I hand delivered a sample of this sand to the soil classifier and he verified that it is a "Class 1" sand and is perfect for septic systems. This is the fill that was originally called out in the engineering drawings.
5. The new septic system will be installed per the new engineering drawing. This septic system is identical to the design of the original septic system in size. Therefore the resulting system (remember that one bed is being left behind) will be 150% the size.
6. Sod will be brought in to cover all exposed soil.

I have not been asked for a dime, and will not be paying for any of this.

We have now had this issue for ~1yr and have had our septic tank pumped 6-7 times at 300-400 dollars a pop.

I also talked extensively with the DHEC during this time about what is going on.

I hope this fixes the issue, and I will keep doing updates until this is resolved. They are supposed to get machines delivered and the fence to the back yard taken down today.

I forgot to report earlier...but was looking at getting gutters on the house (builder offered to pay and sent a gutter company over). I finally agreed after some back and forth and they came to do the install. We have a shadowboard on our fascia (essentially a stepped fascia). Instead of getting the special brackets that fully support the gutter with this style fascia, or installing a PVC adder board to support the fascia, the gutter installers were going to tuck the gutter up hard against the shingles and OVER the dripedge. They showed me what they planned to do and after explaining to the installer all the things wrong with what they were doing I asked them to leave...so, no gutters yet for me.

I have since noticed that there are TONS of gutters installed this way down here. Many of the new developments have house after house after house with the gutter up tight to the shingles, over the dripedge, and inadequate support for the gutter. The question I keep asking myself is...in an area that gets as much rain as Charleston, SC...why the heck would a shadowboard be used on the fascia, which makes gutter installs more complicated ?! Especially since the gutter will cover the shadowboard detail anyway...

Makes me sick to my stomach looking at some of the building practices down here and I wonder what issues I will have with my house in the future. Good thing the beach is so close so I can crack open a few Coronas and forget about it on the weekends

-Joe

 

[hawkeye08]

Sounds like some progress, hopefully you get some positive progress and get this behind you soon.

 

[TemporaryKubotaOwnerMark]

Quick Update...

Finally started to really draw the attorney card about a month or two ago. Suddenly, everyone became a lot more responsive.

Whoda thunk.

 

[RNeumann]

Quick Update...

Finally started to really draw the attorney card about a month or two ago. Suddenly, everyone became a lot more responsive.

Long long long story short...

A different septic company came by and dug some small test holes by hand...easy digging in this sand. They verified that the organics/clay layer was never removed. They stopped hitting organics/clay about 16" down.

Another soil classifier was also sent by and did soil borings...he also verified that the organics/clay was not removed. He also discovered some roots and clay in the fill that was supposed to be clean sand fill. He advised removing this fill where possible and replacing it with the fill that is to be brought in (see below).

Both of them reported into the engineer. We all met and/or talked on the phone a few times and devised a plan to get this thing fixed once and for all.

1. All of the original septic system minus one of the original beds will be removed and the spoils hauled away. One bed is being left in service so we can stay in the house. This is a big deal since my wife and I both work from home.
2. As much of the soil in the buffer zone and taper of the original bed that is being left behind is to be removed.
3. Septic installer will continue to remove material until all organics/roots/clay has been passed. The installer advised that this has been as much as 4ft of material in past installs, but is usually <2ft.
4. Clean fill will be brought in to replace all removed soil and to build up the area of the septic system to original grade. I hand delivered a sample of this sand to the soil classifier and he verified that it is a "Class 1" sand and is perfect for septic systems. This is the fill that was originally called out in the engineering drawings.
5. The new septic system will be installed per the new engineering drawing. This septic system is identical to the design of the original septic system in size. Therefore the resulting system (remember that one bed is being left behind) will be 150% the size.
6. Sod will be brought in to cover all exposed soil.

I have not been asked for a dime, and will not be paying for any of this.

We have now had this issue for ~1yr and have had our septic tank pumped 6-7 times at 300-400 dollars a pop.

I also talked extensively with the DHEC during this time about what is going on.

I hope this fixes the issue, and I will keep doing updates until this is resolved. They are supposed to get machines delivered and the fence to the back yard taken down today.

I forgot to report earlier...but was looking at getting gutters on the house (builder offered to pay and sent a gutter company over). I finally agreed after some back and forth and they came to do the install. We have a shadowboard on our fascia (essentially a stepped fascia). Instead of getting the special brackets that fully support the gutter with this style fascia, or installing a PVC adder board to support the fascia, the gutter installers were going to tuck the gutter up hard against the shingles and OVER the dripedge. They showed me what they planned to do and after explaining to the installer all the things wrong with what they were doing I asked them to leave...so, no gutters yet for me.

I have since noticed that there are TONS of gutters installed this way down here. Many of the new developments have house after house after house with the gutter up tight to the shingles, over the dripedge, and inadequate support for the gutter. The question I keep asking myself is...in an area that gets as much rain as Charleston, SC...why the heck would a shadowboard be used on the fascia, which makes gutter installs more complicated ?! Especially since the gutter will cover the shadowboard detail anyway...

Makes me sick to my stomach looking at some of the building practices down here and I wonder what issues I will have with my house in the future. Good thing the beach is so close so I can crack open a few Coronas and forget about it on the weekends

-Joe

It will work out and the correct fix will happen. Sounds like the contractor is doing a lot- including bringing in a new septic contractor.

 

[Steppenwolfe]

Quick Update...

Finally started to really draw the attorney card about a month or two ago. Suddenly, everyone became a lot more responsive.

Long long long story short...

A different septic company came by and dug some small test holes by hand...easy digging in this sand. They verified that the organics/clay layer was never removed. They stopped hitting organics/clay about 16" down.

Another soil classifier was also sent by and did soil borings...he also verified that the organics/clay was not removed. He also discovered some roots and clay in the fill that was supposed to be clean sand fill. He advised removing this fill where possible and replacing it with the fill that is to be brought in (see below).

Both of them reported into the engineer. We all met and/or talked on the phone a few times and devised a plan to get this thing fixed once and for all.

1. All of the original septic system minus one of the original beds will be removed and the spoils hauled away. One bed is being left in service so we can stay in the house. This is a big deal since my wife and I both work from home.
2. As much of the soil in the buffer zone and taper of the original bed that is being left behind is to be removed.
3. Septic installer will continue to remove material until all organics/roots/clay has been passed. The installer advised that this has been as much as 4ft of material in past installs, but is usually <2ft.
4. Clean fill will be brought in to replace all removed soil and to build up the area of the septic system to original grade. I hand delivered a sample of this sand to the soil classifier and he verified that it is a "Class 1" sand and is perfect for septic systems. This is the fill that was originally called out in the engineering drawings.
5. The new septic system will be installed per the new engineering drawing. This septic system is identical to the design of the original septic system in size. Therefore the resulting system (remember that one bed is being left behind) will be 150% the size.
6. Sod will be brought in to cover all exposed soil.

I have not been asked for a dime, and will not be paying for any of this.

We have now had this issue for ~1yr and have had our septic tank pumped 6-7 times at 300-400 dollars a pop.

I also talked extensively with the DHEC during this time about what is going on.

I hope this fixes the issue, and I will keep doing updates until this is resolved. They are supposed to get machines delivered and the fence to the back yard taken down today.

I forgot to report earlier...but was looking at getting gutters on the house (builder offered to pay and sent a gutter company over). I finally agreed after some back and forth and they came to do the install. We have a shadowboard on our fascia (essentially a stepped fascia). Instead of getting the special brackets that fully support the gutter with this style fascia, or installing a PVC adder board to support the fascia, the gutter installers were going to tuck the gutter up hard against the shingles and OVER the dripedge. They showed me what they planned to do and after explaining to the installer all the things wrong with what they were doing I asked them to leave...so, no gutters yet for me.

I have since noticed that there are TONS of gutters installed this way down here. Many of the new developments have house after house after house with the gutter up tight to the shingles, over the dripedge, and inadequate support for the gutter. The question I keep asking myself is...in an area that gets as much rain as Charleston, SC...why the heck would a shadowboard be used on the fascia, which makes gutter installs more complicated ?! Especially since the gutter will cover the shadowboard detail anyway...

Makes me sick to my stomach looking at some of the building practices down here and I wonder what issues I will have with my house in the future. Good thing the beach is so close so I can crack open a few Coronas and forget about it on the weekends

-Joe

Welcome to SC... we lived there for 25 years, good contractors are so hard to find. Even the yankee one's who moved south quickly became terrible...watch them like a hawk...

 

[Tractor Seabee]

It's all about competition and dollars especially the residential trades. If you bid to do it right you won't get the work. The average homeowner hasn't a clue as to workmanship so they drive the train with dollars. I am going through the same thing up here on this new to us house. The younger workers do not know any better and think their sloppy cheap work is the norm. Sad state of affairs. I am redoing a lot of substandard work done in the last 10 years. One furnace crew running gas pipe did not know you were supposed to use a level on both horizontal and vertical work, did not have one on the truck. Piping on an angle instead of square corners and offsets was a new concept to them. Gas pipe is now installed as limber plastic the just draped into place like noodles, not even any hangers.

I am sure your septic installer honestly thought that the specification for the install and fill was not really a requirement and the cheapest material was normal.

Ron

 

[jrdepew]

Quick update....

Septic subcon has been by and set a temporary culvert pipe in the ditch and dropped a couple loads of dirt on it to make a temporary driveway. He is staying off my driveway 100% with his machines, which I appreciate. He dropped off his excavator but it is sitting idle because we have gotten nearly 5" of rain over the past few days...with more in the forecast.

Just called the builder to get my 7th or 8th septic tank pump in a years time because it is full enough again that I cannot flush toilets.

But we are making progress!!

-Joe

 

[hawkeye08]

Keep after them... been very dry here, 5-6 weeks with any moisture, plenty hot.

 

[CincyFlyer]

...in an area that gets as much rain as Charleston, SC...why the heck would a shadowboard be used on the fascia, which makes gutter installs more complicated ?! Especially since the gutter will cover the shadowboard detail anyway...-Joe

Simply. Many houses in Charleston will never have gutters! I happened to visit Charleston quite a bit back in the 1980's and 1990's; my friend's new house had no gutters. He's a civil engineer, and said that's what they do, the general theory being that the coastal soil is great for drainage (at least in some places!) He was on a salt marsh anyway, so there was a place for water to go besides into the ground. I went down there after it had rained for essentially two weeks, because he said that it simply couldn't rain any more. It rained for the whole week I was there; his construction project shut down, normally brackish water tasted fresh. (Charleston gets 9" more rain per year than Cincinnati, and gets it in fewer days.)
Given the growth in the area in the last few decades, perhaps gutters would be a good thing, as long as there's a viable place to drain them (that won't flood your septic field!)

 

[clemsonfor]

Im from that area. HOpe you get this sorted out. Johns Island can be WET!! I would think now a days even johns island there in Charleston county has codes and you would not be able to separate the grey water unless it had its own septic system.

going to skip forward now and read.

 

[clemsonfor]

When It rains for days the whole ground is saturated to the surface. It really doesn't matter if you shoot the water off 5 ft from your foundation or not its resting on wet ground that is saturated dwn there. Especially when It rains like that at high tide!

And you hit the nail on the head. There are so many people in that area , there is a shortage of homes and its booming. Anyone that can build homes is and as fast as they can. You moved there so your one of the 34 new people in the area to move there. There are homes and subdivisions on James and Johns Islands that use to grow tomatoes and watermelons when I was growing up just 20 25 years ago. Charleston Metro Area has doubled in size since then. How is the traffic on Maybank Now a days? has to be awfull, it was way back then and with only one brige over to west Ashley , or do they have a huge or multiple bridges across the Stono river. going to look at a satellite image to see now.

 

[jrdepew]

When It rains for days the whole ground is saturated to the surface. It really doesn't matter if you shoot the water off 5 ft from your foundation or not its resting on wet ground that is saturated dwn there. Especially when It rains like that at high tide!

And you hit the nail on the head. There are so many people in that area , there is a shortage of homes and its booming. Anyone that can build homes is and as fast as they can. You moved there so your one of the 34 new people in the area to move there. There are homes and subdivisions on James and Johns Islands that use to grow tomatoes and watermelons when I was growing up just 20 25 years ago. Charleston Metro Area has doubled in size since then. How is the traffic on Maybank Now a days? has to be awfull, it was way back then and with only one brige over to west Ashley , or do they have a huge or multiple bridges across the Stono river. going to look at a satellite image to see now.

I have only been on John's Island for a little over a year now, but there are only 2 ways onto the island...A bridge on Main Rd between Johns Island and West Ashley, and the bridge from James Island to Johns Island on Maybank. Maybank traffic can be a real nightmare. I always tell our visitors to avoid getting here at rush hour, but they always seem to get here at that time anyway :dance1:. They will usually call and say that they are 15 minutes away...I tell them, see you in 30 minutes, you will see what I mean when you get to the bridge.

At least the view from that bridge is so nice. My wife and I love this area.

Maybank is currently under construction to add a second lane for traffic coming onto Johns Island. At least they have the foresight to build the bridge wide enough to support this back when they built it. The entrance to the island is also getting a bike trail and a pedestrian trail. Should really be something when it is all said and done. And of course, they are keeping most of the old, giant Live Oaks intact. Those trees were the first thing we noticed when coming to look for houses on Johns Island.

The expansion in this area is a little scary to be honest...and I suppose I am part of the problem! I hope that Charleston County stops fumbling this expansion though and works hard to get the infrastructure improvements in place. I could go on all day on this subject...

On a septic note....the installer should finish the first phase of this project today, which is installing the third bed and connecting it to the existing system. Hopefully, this will provide relief for the upcoming rain we have. Since I work from home, I have been monitoring the project. There were a lot of topsoil and roots left where the third bed is going. This was outside the area of the original septic system. The installer mucked all this out and is currently trucking it away. The soil changed color significantly at the point he stopped digging. This soil was a grayish color sand. The fill the installer brought in is extremely clean sand. I grabbed a sample of it.

After this third bed is installed, he is going on vacation (as am I it turns out...). In two weeks he will be back to muck out the whole area past the first drain bed and re-install that part of the system.

Judging by what has come out of the ground so far, and what is going back in...I am hopeful that we will be fixed up in a few weeks.

The side yard and back yard are truly a disaster from the equipment, which is exactly what I expected. It is likely going to get real ugly after 3" of rain that is in the forecast.

Thanks all,
Joe

 

[clemsonfor]

I have only been on John's Island for a little over a year now, but there are only 2 ways onto the island...A bridge on Main Rd between Johns Island and West Ashley, and the bridge from James Island to Johns Island on Maybank. Maybank traffic can be a real nightmare. I always tell our visitors to avoid getting here at rush hour, but they always seem to get here at that time anyway :dance1:. They will usually call and say that they are 15 minutes away...I tell them, see you in 30 minutes, you will see what I mean when you get to the bridge.

At least the view from that bridge is so nice. My wife and I love this area.

Maybank is currently under construction to add a second lane for traffic coming onto Johns Island. At least they have the foresight to build the bridge wide enough to support this back when they built it. The entrance to the island is also getting a bike trail and a pedestrian trail. Should really be something when it is all said and done. And of course, they are keeping most of the old, giant Live Oaks intact. Those trees were the first thing we noticed when coming to look for houses on Johns Island.

The expansion in this area is a little scary to be honest...and I suppose I am part of the problem! I hope that Charleston County stops fumbling this expansion though and works hard to get the infrastructure improvements in place. I could go on all day on this subject...

On a septic note....the installer should finish the first phase of this project today, which is installing the third bed and connecting it to the existing system. Hopefully, this will provide relief for the upcoming rain we have. Since I work from home, I have been monitoring the project. There were a lot of topsoil and roots left where the third bed is going. This was outside the area of the original septic system. The installer mucked all this out and is currently trucking it away. The soil changed color significantly at the point he stopped digging. This soil was a grayish color sand. The fill the installer brought in is extremely clean sand. I grabbed a sample of it.

After this third bed is installed, he is going on vacation (as am I it turns out...). In two weeks he will be back to muck out the whole area past the first drain bed and re-install that part of the system.

Judging by what has come out of the ground so far, and what is going back in...I am hopeful that we will be fixed up in a few weeks.

The side yard and back yard are truly a disaster from the equipment, which is exactly what I expected. It is likely going to get real ugly after 3" of rain that is in the forecast.

Thanks all,
Joe

I left out a word, that's 34 new people a day moving there. That number does not even count all the births that happen in a day either!!

Yep those were the only 2 ways onto the island for years now. That bridge on Maybank though is 2x the size it was back in the day I think it use to be a short 2 lane bridge that opened and had a bridge tender on it like all the bridges in the area when I way young. They use to get stuck open all the time as well:confused2: At least the stuck bridges is a thing of the past! There is a third way onto the island but that doesn't do you any good to go toward Charleston as it is the bridge to Wadmalaw island which one onto that island your dead ended into it at that point, no other way off Wadmalaw, it is totally surrounded by marsh and river and no other exit/entrance except onto Johns island then onto Johns. Wadmalaw when I was growing up as I am sure most still is was extremely rural, still strong in the Gullah accent as much of the native johns island population, at least what's left of it still is. The road ends on Wadmalaw in Rockville where they have the Rockville Regatta every year, or at least they use too.

I am born and raised in Charleston. Younger years downtown, near the Citadel then on Folly Beach and James Island my highschool years. It use to have a small town feel on James Island back then. Everyone knew or knew of most everyone else and now there is so many people farms out there and so many new folks moved in and the cost is so high many folks my age (35 ) and younger cant afford to live on the island anymore and are forced out.

 

[jrdepew]

Update, hopefully the final one...

Well, it is finally done! The new septic installer had a ~3 week vacation during our install and was only working on it in between jobs, so it took a few months...

The fix that was implemented was as drawn by the engineer...I was watching closely the whole time. First, a third gravel bed was installed adjacent to the existing septic system. This was mucked out properly, and all existing organic matter was removed down to sand. The soil engineer checked the seasonal high water table and verified that the newly installed bed was installed at the correct height (as high as we could get it based on the height of the septic tank essentially).

Next, the second bed in the original system, which sat between the first bed and the newly constructed third bed, was dug out completely. The new installer confirmed that the site was not mucked out properly in the first place, pulling up tons of top soil/organics and roots from beneath the drain bed. This whole area was heavily saturated with water as the original system was not draining properly...so much so that at one point he had to stop digging and wait a couple days to see what he was dealing with. He finished mucking this out, and re-installed a septic bed in this same location. Much of the material that was dug out had to be trucked to a special waste site.

Because of the install of the third bed, we lost a couple small trees, which was fine. The septic contractor hauled all of the waste wood away, and even snagged some of the stuff the original site clearing company left behind. Then he smoothed out all the dirt, regrading it properly, and he was done.

The next day a landscaping company was sent over...they used a small tracksteer to do some final grading and smoothing, then hand raked the whole area, and laid centipede sod down the match the existing yard.

That all happened about a week ago, and I have been busy watering all the sod since. I still need to replace some mulch, and get the fence to the backyard put back together, but I am praying this is the last of this saga!

Thanks for all that posted!

-Joe

 

[hawkeye08]

Thanks for the update, hoping your septic troubles are over.

 

[TemporaryKubotaOwnerMark]

Well, sounds like it finally got done right. I hope it's great from now on!

:thumbsup:

 

[RNeumann]

Sarcasm-

U say u lost a few trees? I'm betting at this point you would have been happy with a working system even if cost you your guest bedroom!
U say u r watering the sod. Is that water as in garden hose. Or water as in flushing the toilet?

 

[jrdepew]

Sarcasm-

U say u lost a few trees? I'm betting at this point you would have been happy with a working system even if cost you your guest bedroom!
U say u r watering the sod. Is that water as in garden hose. Or water as in flushing the toilet?

:laughing:

It is amazing how long this took...but I am so so so glad it appears to be over!

As to how I am watering...all of the above I suppose!

-Joe

 

[RNeumann]

Here's to leaching! Cheers!!