spreading small rock

[David M]

I was moving rock for a guy to put into his foundations with a BX2660. At the end, he asked me to spread the remainder of the pile around. All I had with me at the time was the loader. I gave it a shot and realized that would take a week. So I told the guy I'll have to come back with the box blade. He said, "Don't bother. I'll get a big unit out here to finish up." That kinda pissed me off. Was I justified in wanting to get the box blade to knock it out in an hour instead of a week? I AM rather new at that kind of work but it just seemed obvious to me. I wasn't going to charge him anything extra for YET ANOTHER trip for his add-on requests.

Opinions, please.

 

[MossRoad]

If I had a contractor tell me it would take 39 times longer to spread a pile of rock with a bucket VS a box blade on a 1 hour job, I’d be a little irritated as well. What kind of rock was it and how much are we talking about? Sounds like he wanted you out of there.

 

[rScotty]

That's not how I would have interpreted what the owner said. My first thought would be that he saw that spreading the rock with a loader was going to be a struggle and felt guilty enough about all the previous unpaid "add-on requests" that he didn't want to add yet another one.

My second thought would have been that he saw that a loader wasn't quite the right tool for the job and figured that he would do better to wait and find someone with a loader and landscaping rock rake. And in that I agree with him. Stone and rock is difficult to spread out evenly and just about impossible to "fix" if I get it wrong.
A 3pt corral finish rake it the right tool and does a heck of a lot better job.

I hope this helps, not hurts. You did ask for opinions, David. I'm just saying that neither yours nor MossRoad's opinion would have immediately occured to me.

BTW, I figure that add-on requests are just part of any job. Few people can predict just where a job is going to take them. If reasonable I simply add them on at the same hourly rate.

Good luck,
rScotty

 

[David M]

If I had a contractor tell me it would take 39 times longer to spread a pile of rock with a bucket VS a box blade on a 1 hour job, I壇 be a little irritated as well. What kind of rock was it and how much are we talking about? Sounds like he wanted you out of there.

Of course I didn't tell him that. Anyway, maybe he wanted me out of there, maybe I had already lost enough money on his "this little add-on" and "that little add-on" that I wanted gone. I gave him what we contracted for. This extra was just that: extra because we had done a lot of business together.
Rock kind? Small rocks, as concrete base I believe I mentioned. What difference does that make?

But you didn't answer my question.

 

[David M]

Thank you, rScotty. I didn't know those tools were available for subcompacts. Anyway, you ever tried to spread small rocks with just a loader blade? Wondering if you were going to break something any minute?
And yeah, box blades are for dirt, but I figured if I only did an inch or two at a time, nothing would break. The pile was not huge anymore as I had already filled in his porch areas for future concrete pours (and THAT is definitely someone else's job!) Me hates concrete.

 

[/pine]

just curious...did you not have anything on the 3ph for ballast?...when I'm moving gravel I like some weight on the back...it's generally my box blade...but then again I am not in the habit of transporting my tractor so room on a trailer may be a factor?

 

[David M]

Pine, the rear tires are filled. No problem with overflowing buckets and balance. Until one hits the <censored> humonguous dirt clods and holes left by the bulldozer around the area.

 

[rScotty]

Thank you, rScotty. I didn't know those tools were available for subcompacts. Anyway, you ever tried to spread small rocks with just a loader blade? Wondering if you were going to break something any minute?
And yeah, box blades are for dirt, but I figured if I only did an inch or two at a time, nothing would break. The pile was not huge anymore as I had already filled in his porch areas for future concrete pours (and THAT is definitely someone else's job!) Me hates concrete.

As long as the tractor has a cat 1 3pt hitch they probably make a landscape rake to fit it. Problem is that they are expensive implements (about $500 new) and they need the gauge wheel option to work well...and then they only work really well for spreading a topping layer onto fairly flat ground. But given all those things they do that very well.
I got mine at an auction where nobody wanted it. And frankly I've never made a penny on it. People do borrow it from time to time and for some it works and others not. I suspect it depends on how flat the ground is to start.
rScotty

 

[Fallon]

How much rock? Where would you spread it? If it was just flatening out a small pile I'd be able to back drag it flat with my bucket as fast as I could a box blade.

New at this? Define "this"... Tractor operating? Running & billing a business?

If you are going to take a couple hours to do a job that a big machine can do in under an hour, you better be noticably under a couple times cheaper. Especially if a bigger machine is going to be on-site soonish already. Are you working hourly or fixed bid? If fixed bid, why are you looking to do extra work without pay? B & BX sized machines obviously have their place, especially with small tight jobs, but bigger machines benefit from economies of scale & often double the machine will do more than double the work at less than double the cost.

Personally I have an hourly figure in my head & multiply job + transport time * hourly rate. Some times that gets multiplied by a pain in the *** factor if things look particularly hard on me or the equipment. At no point in that do I allow for scope creep. Any project manager will tell you scope creep kills projects & the bottom line. I'll happily work on any additional items on another bid or straight hourly rate if the scope is flexible or not well defined.

If you are doing free trips that's money out of your pocket. My side gig doing tractor work is evenings & weekends. Recently I've realized I'm underbidding or what not for multi-evening (especially as days get shorter) jobs because that extra 30-45 minutes of transport or commute eats into the bottom line. I may or may not change my bidding because of it for competitive reasons, but at least I'm aware of it.

 

[MossRoad]

Of course I didn't tell him that. Anyway, maybe he wanted me out of there, maybe I had already lost enough money on his "this little add-on" and "that little add-on" that I wanted gone. I gave him what we contracted for. This extra was just that: extra because we had done a lot of business together.
Rock kind? Small rocks, as concrete base I believe I mentioned. What difference does that make?

But you didn't answer my question.

The difference in rock size is I can spread crushed limestone and round gravel very easily with a FEL bucket but I can稚 spread 2 limestone and large rock worth a darn with a FEL bucket. I can稚 see how it would take a week with an FEL bucket VS an hour with a box blade. If you were more comfortable using a box blade, then by all means, go and get it. But if he saw you struggling and offered to get a larger machine to do it, why would that piss you off?

 

[MossRoad]

First, I’d use the FEL bucket to distribute the rocks about the area into small piles evenly spaced in the area. Then I’d fill the bucket with rocks, curl it all the way back, put it in float, and use the back of the bucket as a big, heavy straight-edged surface and back-drag the small piles to spread it out.

I used to do this annually on little league ball diamonds with my little PT425. Yards and yards and yards of granulated limestone. I’ve also done several pads of crushed limestone. And with my old IH2500b, I did about 100 cubic yards of slag in my driveway with the FEL bucket.

Back-dragging with the back of the bucket is a great technique to learn.

 

[wawajake]

Similar to Moss above post ..........when my daughter was building her rural home and had a long driveway to make , my BX2660 with a toothbar on the FEL spread 3 tandem dump truck loads of 2 inch gravel the first summer and then the second summer we topped that with loads smaller 3/4 inch gravel ...........I just brought the bucket fulls to where we needed it and then back bladed using the angle of the toothbar to get the 3 inch thick we wanted. Maybe a day of time each summer .

 

[s219]

Pine, the rear tires are filled. No problem with overflowing buckets and balance. Until one hits the <censored> humonguous dirt clods and holes left by the bulldozer around the area.

Filled rear tires is barely enough to counterbalance the weight of the loader, and it doesn't help take any load off the front axle. When moving a lot of heavy materials with the front loader, you definitely want some additional ballast hanging off the 3-pt hitch. Do not consider tire ballast as anything more than added stability to offset the nose heavy attitude of having a loader installed.

 

[bdhsfz6]

I'm not sure how applicable this is to the OP's question but here is my experience doing this sort of work.

Nine years ago, my neighbor and I put a 4" gravel overlay on our shared 1.25 mile private road. We used a product made by a local quarry called 2RC modified which consists of 3/4" and smaller crushed stone choked off with stone dust. It took 2000 tons of material and ten days to complete. We started using his BX2660 with box blade and my L3430 FEL to spread the stone. Neither of us are experts but we both have many hours on these small tractors and have quite a bit of experience doing this sort of work. We found the FEL to be more effective at spreading the material than the box blade using a technique similar to that described by MossRoad. After the third day, we switched from the box blade to a stone rake with blade and gauge wheels. That made all the difference and is definitely the right implement for the job.

Yes, a contractor who bid on the job would have taken 2 days to complete the work, but at almost 3 times the price. My neighbor and I are both retired and rather enjoy working our tractors so it was an easy decision. Since then, we have done a few driveways and made several road washout repairs using this same technique.

It's interesting to note, the contractor who bid the job would have used a track loader and small dozer. He saw the work we did and has since switched to a tractor with FEL and stone rake for similar jobs.

 

[David M]

All excellent posts, guys. I appreciate the input. I started doing the dragging of the rock with loader from the back but in that terrain it was going nowhere fast. This ground is far from level, plus all the ruts and mounds left by the bulldozer and it's tracks. At that point is where I saw my left from wheel had broken around 3 of the 4 lug bolts! (I was going to ask about that in a separate thread.) So I put the 2660 away in the trailer and cinched it down for travel when the owner returned. I only mentioned to him that I needed to get the box blade to continue (didn't have a chance to discuss the hardware failure) when he popped off about getting a larger machine to do the job.
The 2660 had done everything else he wanted, he was angry because he hadn't gotten his way in his time frame -- and on a FREEBIE!
That's the last time I help him. I neither need nor want that kind of hassle. There was *maybe* a cubic foot of the 1 inch rock or so left.

 

[Gary Fowler]

All excellent posts, guys. I appreciate the input. I started doing the dragging of the rock with loader from the back but in that terrain it was going nowhere fast. This ground is far from level, plus all the ruts and mounds left by the bulldozer and it's tracks. At that point is where I saw my left from wheel had broken around 3 of the 4 lug bolts! .

Broken lug bolts are usually cause by them working loose. It is very difficult to break a lug bolt when it is tight. Better check all the other ones while you are changing out the broken ones.

As for spreading the rock, I think I would have tried to level out the ruts first before spreading the rock. That would have made the whole process much easier. My B26 is about the same size as your 2660 although it is a bit heavier and I have no problem spreading rock or levelling ruts with it by back blading. On hard dirt piles I will pull onto the dirt pile, lower the FEL till the blade is vertical and then use it to cut into the pile and drag out some loose material. Some folks are afraid of damaging a cylinder doing this but I have never had any issue with either of my tractors doing this.

I have found that using the heel of the bucket spreads dirt and rock much better than using the back of the blade and it will knock down ruts better also because it tends to dig in rather than float over like the blade does.

 

[/pine]

Filled rear tires is barely enough to counterbalance the weight of the loader, and it doesn't help take any load off the front axle. When moving a lot of heavy materials with the front loader, you definitely want some additional ballast hanging off the 3-pt hitch. Do not consider tire ballast as anything more than added stability to offset the nose heavy attitude of having a loader installed.

Agree...my rears are also loaded and without any rear ballast I will get bounced around moving full buckets of gravel...

 

[Monster diesel]

Ratchetrake is crazy cheap and works well. Tractor supply has them.

 

[Chewwy]

My tractor is slightly larger but found spreading rock using FEL to be pretty easy and fast. Learned this after watching guy on skid steer do it.

Simply fill the bucket and with the bucket elevated where you can see the rock fall, SLOWLY curl bucket forward while backing up. Coordination the bucket uncurling with backing speed takes some time but with a little practice you get the knack of it. When thru with the pile of gravel, can use loader bucket backdragging to smooth it out.

What took me the most time to learn was making small blade adjustments using more passes rather than trying to do it taking larger bites.

 

[Thomas]

Attitude such as his been long while before my tractor treads made print on his land.