Herbicide. 24D or what?

[Ford850]

Everyone has been telling me it's best to spray 24d in the fall, when the plant is putting energy into the roots for the winter. In the spring, you may "appear" to kill the plant, but really you are just killing the foilag. And the plant will come right back because you didn't kill the root.

As to thin vs thick. Accord to label I am actually on the heavy side (least diluted.) The jug I have, iirc, says 1.5-3 pts per acre. So I use two pints. It also says in the column right next to that 20-200 gallons per acre.

So diluting 1 pt in the 15 gallon sprayer, and spraying 1/2 acre is not the middle of the road in terms of per acre, and toward the lower end of dilution.

Mixing 8 oz per gallon (12 oz per 1.5 gal)...seems strong as crap. Perhaps not a concentrated version of 24d?

I agree.

 

[Big Barn]

Curious as to whether anyone uses products like Scots weed and feed? I admit I am NOT knowledgeable about lawn/fertilizers, etc., so please just let me know what the 'collective' thinking is on bang for buck, etc.

Thanks,

CM

IMO, there is nothing exceptional about Scott lawn care products.

I do have to admire their brilliant and well executed advertising campaign though.

 

[ustmd]

Everyone has been telling me it's best to spray 24d in the fall, when the plant is putting energy into the roots for the winter. In the spring, you may "appear" to kill the plant, but really you are just killing the foilag. And the plant will come right back because you didn't kill the root.

As to thin vs thick. Accord to label I am actually on the heavy side (least diluted.) The jug I have, iirc, says 1.5-3 pts per acre. So I use two pints. It also says in the column right next to that 20-200 gallons per acre.

So diluting 1 pt in the 15 gallon sprayer, and spraying 1/2 acre is not the middle of the road in terms of per acre, and toward the lower end of dilution.

Mixing 8 oz per gallon (12 oz per 1.5 gal)...seems strong as crap. Perhaps not a concentrated version of 24d?

24d (and most other herbicides) are taken up into the plant through the stomata (the little holes in the leaf for transpiration-absorption of and CO2 and release of O2 and H2O). If the plant is under stress (drought, temperature too hot or too cold), the stomata close and the plant will not absorb the herbicide. Generally, Spring is the best time (sufficient water and mild temps) as the plant is less like to be under stress and growing new leaves drives significant transpiration.

 

[LD1]

24d (and most other herbicides) are taken up into the plant through the stomata (the little holes in the leaf for transpiration-absorption of and CO2 and release of O2 and H2O). If the plant is under stress (drought, temperature too hot or too cold), the stomata close and the plant will not absorb the herbicide. Generally, Spring is the best time (sufficient water and mild temps) as the plant is less like to be under stress and growing new leaves drives significant transpiration.

Seems to be two schools of thought.

1. Spray in spring when plant is actually growing rapidly.
2. Spray in fall to kill the root as plan is storing nutrients away for winter in the root system.

Whats right? I dont know. Possibly varies by plant too.

But who cares. I sprayed in the spring, I will spray in the fall. And if next spring I have weeds, I'll spray then too, and if next fall rolls around, and still have weeds left, I'll spray then too.

So at least 50% of the time I will be right:thumbsup:

 

[Big Barn]

Seems to be two schools of thought.

1. Spray in spring when plant is actually growing rapidly.
2. Spray in fall to kill the root as plan is storing nutrients away for winter in the root system.

Whats right? I dont know. Possibly varies by plant too.

But who cares. I sprayed in the spring, I will spray in the fall. And if next spring I have weeds, I'll spray then too, and if next fall rolls around, and still have weeds left, I'll spray then too.

So at least 50% of the time I will be right:thumbsup:

I knew you'd figure it out!

 

[TNhobbyfarmer]

Seems to be two schools of thought.

1. Spray in spring when plant is actually growing rapidly.
2. Spray in fall to kill the root as plan is storing nutrients away for winter in the root system.

Whats right? I dont know. Possibly varies by plant too.

But who cares. I sprayed in the spring, I will spray in the fall. And if next spring I have weeds, I'll spray then too, and if next fall rolls around, and still have weeds left, I'll spray then too.

So at least 50% of the time I will be right:thumbsup:

Sounds like a solid plan to me.

 

[Wakey]

Does anyone have some thoughts on spraying fertilizer? I wondered if it might be cheaper, it would definitely be easier.

Also a bit more on topic, crabgrass. I found this looking around on the net, my local feed and seed had nothing. Amazon.com : Drive XLR8 Herbicide 1/2 Gallon 64 OZ. KILLS CRABGRASS : Patio, Lawn & Garden

It appears to kill centipede which is OK, i'll replace with Bermuda.

 

[fishheadbob]

My father once owned a golf course. Some of the best advice he ever gave was "Don't fertilize grass unless you really like to mow."

Regarding Scotts' and other brand name fertilizers: if you really must fertilize save yourself some money, read the label to see what's in it, then go buy the same stuff generically. A 20-5-10 with a big name label will cost many times the amount of the generic version.
If you do not understand that, you probably shouldn't be applying fertilizer for a lot of different reasons.

 

[TheMan419]

Does anyone have some thoughts on spraying fertilizer? I wondered if it might be cheaper, it would definitely be easier.

Also a bit more on topic, crabgrass. I found this looking around on the net, my local feed and seed had nothing. Amazon.com : Drive XLR8 Herbicide 1/2 Gallon 64 OZ. KILLS CRABGRASS : Patio, Lawn & Garden

It appears to kill centipede which is OK, i'll replace with Bermuda.

I have looked at it a little bit since I bought a sprayer. It looks cheaper. Also Scott's is all marketing. You can find generic with the same stuff in it for half the price. Much like with weed killer.

My concern with spraying is that I will have to use the NH Boomer 25 on the lawn. I suppose if is dry and I use 2wd it should be ok. Lots of areas I will have to shuck and jive to get into tight spaces. So we will see.

Regarding clover it thrives in soil that is nitrogen depleted. So if you kill it you need to add nitrogen to the soil or it will come back hard.

 

[Larry Caldwell]

Everyone has been telling me it's best to spray 24d in the fall, when the plant is putting energy into the roots for the winter. In the spring, you may "appear" to kill the plant, but really you are just killing the foilag. And the plant will come right back because you didn't kill the root.

As to thin vs thick. Accord to label I am actually on the heavy side (least diluted.) The jug I have, iirc, says 1.5-3 pts per acre. So I use two pints. It also says in the column right next to that 20-200 gallons per acre.

So diluting 1 pt in the 15 gallon sprayer, and spraying 1/2 acre is not the middle of the road in terms of per acre, and toward the lower end of dilution.

Mixing 8 oz per gallon (12 oz per 1.5 gal)...seems strong as crap. Perhaps not a concentrated version of 24d?

Roundup in the fall, 2,4-D in the spring. Auxin based herbicides interfere with rapidly growing plant tissue. It is often used for late season application in field corn, but that is to control weed seed production in late maturing weeds. Here are the directions from a generic 2,4-D label:

Generally the lower dosages given will be satisfactory for young, succulent growth of
sensitive weed species. For less sensitive species and under conditions where control is
more difficult, the higher dosages will be needed. Apply this product during warm weather
when weeds are young and growing actively.

The concentration in the sprayer depends on application technique. You notice I added dish detergent as a spreader-sticker. Surfactants are only allowed with 2,4-D on non-crop applications. There will be none in the bottle, so for field spraying the only way to get coverage is to soak the plant. The field mix is a suspension, not a solution, and requires agitation. Lawns are not crop land, and using a detergent surfactant turns the sprayer mix into a solution, so much lower quantities of water can be used. I have about a half acre of lawn, and can do the whole thing with one 1.5 gallon sprayer full, while the label mix requires 2.5-10 gallons of mix for the same area.

 

[ericm979]

I've been using Triclopyr on the poison oak on my land. I found that the recommended concentration in homeowner product was all over the map. I ended up finding a document on PO control from the University of California at Davis (big ag school) summarizing results of studies and listing actual percentage concentations they recommend. From that I calculated that the homeowner stuff was too weak. I don't want to spray more herbicide than I need but I also don't want to suit up and crawl through poison oak more times than I have to.

I bought some serious Triclopyr (64% vs 8% in Brush B Gone) and mixed my own with surfactant. It's much more effective even at the lowest concentration in the UCD document.. which is about 8x the "strong" concentration on the label of Brush B Gone.

 

[rswyan]

Trimec and then Trimec 899 here ...

But it's been a few years since I was really spraying regularly.

 

[Coyote machine]

Congratulations on your fat bank account. Weed and Feed is a waste of money, but if you are flush, go for it. A gallon of 2,4-D and a small garden sprayer will take care of the weeds, and allow you to spot weeds instead of treating the whole lawn. Then buy 50 lbs of 21-4-6 or something similar at any farm store, which should be enough to do a huge lawn.

Success with Lawn Fertilizers: Buy & Use the Right Type at the Right Time.

Every girl crazy 'bout a sharp dressed man! Jive coat, jive hair, and I don't worry 'cause my wallet's FAT! - ZZ Top : zz top sharp dressed man - Google Search

So, I know I prefaced my question with I'm NOT a knowledgeable person when it comes to lawncare fertilizers, BUT I just wanted to know if Weed N Feed was good stuff or is/was there something better...
No need to shoot the inquirer- we all have to learn from zero starting point about anything we're not already familiar with...

 

[Big Barn]

Every girl crazy 'bout a sharp dressed man! Jive coat, jive hair, and I don't worry 'cause my wallet's FAT! - ZZ Top : zz top sharp dressed man - Google Search

So, I know I prefaced my question with I'm NOT a knowledgeable person when it comes to lawncare fertilizers, BUT I just wanted to know if Weed N Feed was good stuff or is/was there something better...
No need to shoot the inquirer- we all have to learn from zero starting point about anything we're not already familiar with...

Weed N Feed is the proverbial product marketing dream in my opinion.

Think of it in terms of a multivitamin for yourself. A product containing various beneficial ingredients which may or may not be needed by your body in the provided dosages or if at all.

Back to lawns. Does your lawn currently HAVE weeds? If not, you don't need a herbicide (the WEED portion of the product).

Does your lawn require nutrients? (the FEED part). Try not to get caught up in the race to have the "greenest" lawn on your street. Higher Nitrogen formulations for a greener lawn mainly encourages short term foliage growth which equates to more frequent mowing(s).

IF you have weeds you don't want, then use a herbicide, if allowed in your area. (Pesticides are largely banned for homeowner use in most municipalities of BC where I live)

IF you feel your lawn needs feeding then buy a quality product recommended by a LOCAL garden center or landscape pro designed for your particular plant zone.

Save your money and stay away from the "one size fits all" products.

 

[TheMan419]

Also a lot of weed problems can be taken care of by feeding the lawn. The nice grasses will help crowed out the weeds.

Weed and feed however has the advantage of being easy. Not meant as a slam to anyone. Sometimes we make the decision to spend more money to save time. Other times we decide to save money and spend more time. Just depends on your personal situation and which one you want to save.

 

[Coyote machine]

Weed N Feed is the proverbial product marketing dream in my opinion.

Think of it in terms of a multivitamin for yourself. A product containing various beneficial ingredients which may or may not be needed by your body in the provided dosages or if at all.

Back to lawns. Does your lawn currently HAVE weeds? If not, you don't need a herbicide (the WEED portion of the product).

Does your lawn require nutrients? (the FEED part). Try not to get caught up in the race to have the "greenest" lawn on your street. Higher Nitrogen formulations for a greener lawn mainly encourages short term foliage growth which equates to more frequent mowing(s).

IF you have weeds you don't want, then use a herbicide, if allowed in your area. (Pesticides are largely banned for homeowner use in most municipalities of BC where I live)

IF you feel your lawn needs feeding then buy a quality product recommended by a LOCAL garden center or landscape pro designed for your particular plant zone.

Save your money and stay away from the "one size fits all" products.

Thanks, that's helpful. I will probably return the Weed-N-Feed that I picked up but haven't used.

Also a lot of weed problems can be taken care of by feeding the lawn. The nice grasses will help crowed out the weeds.

Weed and feed however has the advantage of being easy. Not meant as a slam to anyone. Sometimes we make the decision to spend more money to save time. Other times we decide to save money and spend more time. Just depends on your personal situation and which one you want to save.

Yep, that makes sense- most products today are aimed at ease of use/spend 'mo $ to get there....

 

[ray66v]

+1 on the Trimec, and the surfactant.

I mix about 32 ounces of Trimec, in 25 gallons. And, a few ounces of surfactant. That sprays about 1/2 to 3/4 acre.

Clover is waxy, and the spray will generally run off it, without a surfactant.

You can't eradicate clover from a lawn, in one spraying. It takes patience, and persistence. One spraying usually just affects the top layer. I try to go back and hit where the clover is a second time, inside of two weeks. It may take several rounds of this, to get all of it.

If your lawn is dry, or stressed, from the summer heat, you should wait for it to rain some, before going to war. That usually keeps me from getting it all out of my lawn during the summer. But, I do keep most of it under control.

If all else fails, the frost does kill it, for now.