Herbicide. 24D or what?

[LD1]

Whated to start an herbicide discussion. My lawn is anything but nice. And don't really desire a golf course lawn either. But have ALOT of weeds.

Dandilion, broadleaf plantain, buckhorn plantain, some viney yellowing flower things (creeping buttercup I think), and lots of clover.

Sprayed basic amine 24d in the spring at 1qt mixed with 30 gallons water per acre. Obviously fall is the best time, but a gallon of 24d is cheap, and I was spraying the yard anyway with insecticide.

So been reading about herbicides until I'm cross-eyed. Lots of big words. The weeds aren't really that big of a deal, but stemmy weeds like the plantains, red clover, that yellow flower crap...cuts like crap.

So...what do you guys spray? Seems there are several different things that they mix with 24d to have two active ingredients, as well as some have 3. Of 20 different products I have looked at with 24d, it seems none have the same combination of ingredients.

And the more I read, it kinda has me re-thinking wanting to kill the clover. As it is claimed to add alot of nitrogen (which the grass needs). And that if I kill EVERYTHING but the grass, I will have a high maintenance lawn that requires fertilizer. That's not what I want.

So is it possible to kill EVERYTHING but the grass AND clover. The spring spraying of 24d seemed to do nothing. Things wilted for about a week, then turned green and healthy again.

 

[jeff9366]

2,4-D is the broadest spectrum lawn herbicide. I have not been able to notice any difference between brands, except concentration. I buy at Tractor Supply. 2,4-D is most effective when the lawn/weeds are growing rapidly. Spray at the recommended interval, which will vary by mix ratio.

Roundup/Glycophosphate will kill the grass.

In Ohio there may be demand for specialized herbicices not sold in North Florida. I would peruse the selection available and read the labels closely. Herbicide regulations require complete descriptions. It is possible you may need two or three different types to kill your entire spectrum of weeds: Dandilion, broadleaf plantain, buckhorn plantain, some viney yellow flowering things (creeping buttercup I think).

 

[Wakey]

I'll cede to more knowledgeable folks but I was told 24-D works best in the spring. I use Grazon Next HD for the summer and fall. Honestly I'm in the process of honing my craft as well. In the past I think I was using more chemical than necessary in the pasture. I just purchased the Fimco TSC Exclusive 3-Gallon 12-Volt 2.1 GPM Pump Trailer Sprayer with 3-Nozzle Boom - For Life Out Here for my lawn, about 3 acres. I'm curious about using the trailer to spray fertilizer as well because using the broadcast hand spreader bag is a bit of a pain.

 

[Big Barn]

LD1.
Here on the turf farm in the PNW we used a commercial combination of 2,4-D and Mecoprop-p and Dicamba.

It should be available in other parts of the country under different brand name/ labels/ concentrations.

Since our "lawn" was only in our care for 10 months or less weeds were never much of a problem. However it was a matter of economics. Cheaper in the long run to spray the whole darn farm than than have a problem area that could jeopardize a sale. (I am NOT an anti-environmentalist so we can leave that for another day....

Good "kill" results for clover will rarely occur in the spring. You need hot weather for the herbicide to be effective.

Maybe check with your local Ag extension services or Ohio State University for problem weeds specific to your area.

HTH
Terry

 

[LD1]

LD1.
Here on the turf farm in the PNW we used a commercial combination of 2,4-D and Mecoprop-p and Dicamba.

It should be available in other parts of the country under different brand name/ labels/ concentrations.

Since our "lawn" was only in our care for 10 months or less weeds were never much of a problem. However it was a matter of economics. Cheaper in the long run to spray the whole darn farm than than have a problem area that could jeopardize a sale. (I am NOT an anti-environmentalist so we can leave that for another day....

Good "kill" results for clover will rarely occur in the spring. You need hot weather for the herbicide to be effective.

Maybe check with your local Ag extension services or Ohio State University for problem weeds specific to your area.

HTH
Terry

Yep, those are some familiar terms I have been reading about.

Alot of stuff labeled as 24d also contains dicamba. Don't remember specifically what the dicamba targets that the 24d don't.

24d has little to no effect on. Clover.

Some things I have been reading about to rid clover are the mcpp (acronym for that last thing you spelled) and tryicopyr which is another common active ingredient in "brush killer".

Then there's the combination of many active ingridents.

Like crossbow has ester 24d, and tryicopyr.
Gordon's trimec (lawn weed killer common at tsc or rural King) is a 3 ingredient. Amine 24d, mcpp, and dicamba. Basically what you mentioned you used on the turf farm.

Lots of different options, lots of different prices, lots of different concentrations. And even though I have seen 24d concentrations vary from as little as 7% in the 2 or3 part weed killer to over 35%, it always seems to call for around 1qt per acre??

Still up in the air on weather I want to kill the clover. Anyone care to chime in on that?

This is a 4 acre country yard with no irrigation and a mix of grasses including blue Grass and fescue. I don't want to kill the clover if the results will be detrimental to the grass and require constant maintenance and fertilizer application.

If I can rid the clover and all other weeds and still have a maintenance free lawn, great. If not, I want something to kill everything BUT grass and clover. And I don't think 24d alone is the answer for the plantains and buttercup.

 

[Big Barn]

Yep, those are some familiar terms I have been reading about.

Alot of stuff labeled as 24d also contains dicamba. Don't remember specifically what the dicamba targets that the 24d don't.

24d has little to no effect on. Clover.

Some things I have been reading about to rid clover are the mcpp (acronym for that last thing you spelled) and tryicopyr which is another common active ingredient in "brush killer".

Then there's the combination of many active ingridents.

Like crossbow has ester 24d, and tryicopyr.
Gordon's trimec (lawn weed killer common at tsc or rural King) is a 3 ingredient. Amine 24d, mcpp, and dicamba. Basically what you mentioned you used on the turf farm.

Lots of different options, lots of different prices, lots of different concentrations. And even though I have seen 24d concentrations vary from as little as 7% in the 2 or3 part weed killer to over 35%, it always seems to call for around 1qt per acre??

Still up in the air on weather I want to kill the clover. Anyone care to chime in on that?

This is a 4 acre country yard with no irrigation and a mix of grasses including blue Grass and fescue. I don't want to kill the clover if the results will be detrimental to the grass and require constant maintenance and fertilizer application.

If I can rid the clover and all other weeds and still have a maintenance free lawn, great. If not, I want something to kill everything BUT grass and clover. And I don't think 24d alone is the answer for the plantains and buttercup.

I'm pretty certain the MCPP will kill the clover. Check to see how the chemical works best. Hot weather yes, but perhaps the lawn must be irrigated/actively growing and not under stress.

Just keep in mind IF you have large expanses of clover and IF you are indeed successful in eradicating it, new lawn in the form of seed, sod, or sprigs will be necessary to REcover these areas to hinder future weed populations.

Terry

 

[Ford850]

LD1, I'm pretty close to you here in Ohio and have the same weeds. This is what I do, and it works well.
Trimec from Rural King. I buy it when it's on sale and have it on the shelf so it's ready when that perfect weather day arrives and I decide to spray at moment's notice.
Surfactant from Rural King - Drexel Hum-AC 820. I get a gallon and it lasts for years. It makes all the difference especially when battling the tough weeds, but I add it to every spray batch.
Crossroads from Rural King. It's the generic Crossbow, and works well on brush and poison ivy, and I occasionally use it on the tough viney weeds (and clover) in the yard.
Trimec will knock out clover when you add the surfactant. That makes all sprays work better since it's getting the leaves soaked by breaking that surface tension (especially on clover and ground ivy). I've used Trimec for years, and it didn't control my clover at all, until I started adding the surfactant.
I try to spray once a year and that controls things pretty well. Sometimes I spray 2 times but that's rare. I spray spring or fall, when the temps are not too high, and the weeds are growing actively.

 

[Big Barn]

LD1, I'm pretty close to you here in Ohio and have the same weeds. This is what I do, and it works well.
Trimec from Rural King. I buy it when it's on sale and have it on the shelf so it's ready when that perfect weather day arrives and I decide to spray at moment's notice.
Surfactant from Rural King - Drexel Hum-AC 820. I get a gallon and it lasts for years. It makes all the difference especially when battling the tough weeds, but I add it to every spray batch.
Crossroads from Rural King. It's the generic Crossbow, and works well on brush and poison ivy, and I occasionally use it on the tough viney weeds (and clover) in the yard.
Trimec will knock out clover when you add the surfactant. That makes all sprays work better since it's getting the leaves soaked by breaking that surface tension (especially on clover and ground ivy). I've used Trimec for years, and it didn't control my clover at all, until I started adding the surfactant.
I try to spray once a year and that controls things pretty well. Sometimes I spray 2 times but that's rare. I spray spring or fall, when the temps are not too high, and the weeds are growing actively.

Good point on the surfactant (surface tension reducer). I pretty much ALWAYS add it to the tank.

Some products such as Roundup already contain it (supposedly) but a "little more" will work wonders on the waxy leaved weeds such as ivy. A little OT but Roundup DOES kill blackberries. Use extra surfactant and spray IN THE FALL when the plant is withdrawing back into the roots.

Terry

 

[Big Barn]

LD1 I will change hats and attitude now. (annoyingly **** to relaxed and humorous. )and offer another suggestion.

Four acres is a good chunk of lawn. If you're not looking for a golf course, consider spraying for weeds as planned....

Then in the fall (early - mid September) overseed the entire area with a hard fescue suitable for your climate. (You will need to be prepared to irrigate if it doesn't rain).

You may need to redo it in varying degrees in subsequent years in order to keep your desirable grass population at a level to suppress new weed growth.



(new improved relaxed) Terry

 

[LD1]

Still concerned about having a lawn that is 100% grass. And no clover to help keep it healthy.

Maybe I should quit reading the various lawn care forums where they want to sell customers on 5 or 6 fertilizer applications a year, etc.

Another thought (and alot of work).....I ran tile in one area of they yard that was always wet. Doing so and backfilling I had a pretty good sized area rutted up. Once the tile did it's thing and it was dry, I disc'd it pretty good, and cultipacked and lawn rollered it to get it smooth again. (Well kinda smooth....better than the ruts.)

Never reseeded any if it. Got some nice lush grass growing back and almost no weeds. Probably the best looking area of the whole yard

 

[LD1]

LD1, I'm pretty close to you here in Ohio and have the same weeds. This is what I do, and it works well.
Trimec from Rural King. I buy it when it's on sale and have it on the shelf so it's ready when that perfect weather day arrives and I decide to spray at moment's notice.
Surfactant from Rural King - Drexel Hum-AC 820. I get a gallon and it lasts for years. It makes all the difference especially when battling the tough weeds, but I add it to every spray batch.
Crossroads from Rural King. It's the generic Crossbow, and works well on brush and poison ivy, and I occasionally use it on the tough viney weeds (and clover) in the yard.
Trimec will knock out clover when you add the surfactant. That makes all sprays work better since it's getting the leaves soaked by breaking that surface tension (especially on clover and ground ivy). I've used Trimec for years, and it didn't control my clover at all, until I started adding the surfactant.
I try to spray once a year and that controls things pretty well. Sometimes I spray 2 times but that's rare. I spray spring or fall, when the temps are not too high, and the weeds are growing actively.

So you mainly is trimec, and only the crossroads when it's some tough stuff right.

Any reason other than cost to not just use crossroads and skip the trimec?

 

[Big Barn]

Something to consider.

At our farm sales office we encourage the use of our private labelled "starter", "spring/summer" and "fall/winter fertilizers for optimum results on their new lawn purchase.

It's all about market share. We already have a potential customer in the store to "upsell". If we don't do it they'll just go to Home Depot down the road. I like to think I'm saving them money on gas.

As a side note: I NEVER fertilize the lawns around my house. The increased mowing got to be a PITA.

 

[LD1]

.

As a side note: I NEVER fertilize the lawns around my house. The increased mowing got to be a PITA.

Agreed. I don't like mowing anymore than I have to. Just don't want a dead brown lawn either. As much as I hate grass, and mowing, dirt, mud, and thistles are are much less desired

 

[Ford850]

So you mainly is trimec, and only the crossroads when it's some tough stuff right.

Any reason other than cost to not just use crossroads and skip the trimec?

Trimec is labelled for lawn and turf use. Crossroads seems much more harsh and I don't like the idea of using it across my entire lawn, especially with a well. When I use Crossroads on my lawn, it is only on small problem areas, usually with a 2 gallon hand sprayer, or 4 gallon backpack at the most. Also, Crossroads will kill shrubs and trees if it drifts, while Trimec might slightly damage them but I've never had a problem. Trimec is cheaper too.
I have a tall fescue lawn and keep it mowed at approximately a 3 1/2" deck setting. I have been using the 5 fescue blend from Rural King to reseed areas etc, and that is a nice mix and reasonably priced. Fescues go dormant in the hot dry summers though, and I consider that a bonus but the lawn will be brown during droughts. It always comes back 100% after the first heavy soaking rain.

 

[Coyote machine]

Curious as to whether anyone uses products like Scots weed and feed? I admit I am NOT knowledgeable about lawn/fertilizers, etc., so please just let me know what the 'collective' thinking is on bang for buck, etc.

Thanks,

CM

 

[LD1]

Everything I have ever seen that has "Scott's" on the label is about 3x the price of the exact same thing in a different brand.

Kinda like Roundup vs generic 41% glyphosphate

 

[oldballs]

I've been at it for years and keep learning more about it and still trying different approaches. I have found that Trimec and Trimec 899 work real well in my 50 gallon, gasoline powered spray unit. I also note that various weeds do return after a season or two. Often times I use Ortho "Weed B Gone" for spot spraying (two gallon sprayer) over my 3 acres. But, "hey", I'm retired with not a whole lot else to do....sometimes.

Those clover patches are okay and will often return in the same place when sprayed and apparently "dead". A little clover doesn't bother me that much anymore. I do use a lawn fertilizer around the house and sometimes on the rest of the place when I'm flush with cash.

I generally seed with a broad blade fescue like K-31 or some of the more expensive varieties. Even retired I get out of sync with things when other projects come up. Unlike some of the other posters, I keep the yard looking the best right around the house. ... The open fields I'm not that picky about.

 

[Larry Caldwell]

2,4-D works best in the spring. One quart in 30 gallons is pretty thin, but I don't mix big tank. In a 1.5 gallon tank I use 12 oz. of 2,4-D or Dicamba (Banvel), or Crossbow (2,4-D and Garlon-triclopyr) for brush control and add a little Dawn dish soap for a spreader-sticker. Then I don't have to wet the dickens out of everything, I can just use a fine mist for weed control. The directions will give ounces or gallons per acre, not a percentage mix in the sprayer.

Here in the West we have a summer drought and the subterranean clover goes dormant about this time of year. The dandelions keep right on growing, so I can spray out the dandelions without hurting the clover at all. 2,4-D only works on growing vegetation. It has little effect on mature plants, and no effect on dormant plants.

 

[Larry Caldwell]

Curious as to whether anyone uses products like Scots weed and feed? I admit I am NOT knowledgeable about lawn/fertilizers, etc., so please just let me know what the 'collective' thinking is on bang for buck, etc.

Thanks,

CM

Congratulations on your fat bank account. Weed and Feed is a waste of money, but if you are flush, go for it. A gallon of 2,4-D and a small garden sprayer will take care of the weeds, and allow you to spot weeds instead of treating the whole lawn. Then buy 50 lbs of 21-4-6 or something similar at any farm store, which should be enough to do a huge lawn.

Success with Lawn Fertilizers: Buy & Use the Right Type at the Right Time.

 

[LD1]

Everyone has been telling me it's best to spray 24d in the fall, when the plant is putting energy into the roots for the winter. In the spring, you may "appear" to kill the plant, but really you are just killing the foilag. And the plant will come right back because you didn't kill the root.

As to thin vs thick. Accord to label I am actually on the heavy side (least diluted.) The jug I have, iirc, says 1.5-3 pts per acre. So I use two pints. It also says in the column right next to that 20-200 gallons per acre.

So diluting 1 pt in the 15 gallon sprayer, and spraying 1/2 acre is not the middle of the road in terms of per acre, and toward the lower end of dilution.

Mixing 8 oz per gallon (12 oz per 1.5 gal)...seems strong as crap. Perhaps not a concentrated version of 24d?