Need help! Dk40se sensor stuck in Low

[Apsterbobed]

I stalled my DK40se HST out in the woods, and when I went to restart it the dash range light is blinking L. I can't seem to find N, it stays in L (and blinks) no mater where I put the shift lever. It has been acting up as far as the dash and the lever get out of sync but I can always find N somewhere along the shifting range. It has never blinked before. The worst part is that it's 1/2 mile in the woods and they are calling for on and off rain all week! Does anyone know how to bypass the neutral safety so I can get it up to the garage to make the repairs? The worst part is I asked my dealer to look at it last spring and it never acted up while they had it! Then when it went in this spring I asked them to check it again and again it worked perfectly for them!

 

[ritcheyvs]

Here are two things you might try:
1. Disconnect the battery for perhaps a minute, Reconnect and see if that resets the blinking light.
2. If that doesn't work, BE SURE YOU ARE IN NEUTRAL with the parking brake set HARD, turn the key to ON and (after the glow light goes out) use the brute force technique to run the starter.

Be advised that there is danger here. The tractor could start and run over you. If possible, have a trustworthy helper in the seat, just in case.

I would not recommend option 2 except you have something of an emergency and you need to move the tractor to fix it.

 

[Apsterbobed]

Here are two things you might try:
1. Disconnect the battery for perhaps a minute, Reconnect and see if that resets the blinking light.
2. If that doesn't work, BE SURE YOU ARE IN NEUTRAL with the parking brake set HARD, turn the key to ON and (after the glow light goes out) use the brute force technique to run the starter.

Be advised that there is danger here. The tractor could start and run over you. If possible, have a trustworthy helper in the seat, just in case.

I would not recommend option 2 except you have something of an emergency and you need to move the tractor to fix it.

Thanks, I didn't think about disconnecting the battery, I did unplug the range switch but that didn't get me anywhere. I will try that then the starter jump this afternoon. I had thought about jumping the starter but didn't try because I figured the safety would prevent it from starting even if it cranked over. Again thanks for the information, unfortunately I have to work and won't be able to try it untill this evening.

 

[LouNY]

I am not familiar with your tractor but,
when you disconnected your range switch what does that do to your dash lights?
How many wires on that switch connector and there colors, you should be able to use a jumper between terminals or to ground to activate your dash lights and make it possible to start your tractor, or price the range switch and connect it to the wiring and activate it by hand.
None of which is a safe or recommended way to run your tractor.

 

[Apsterbobed]

I am not familiar with your tractor but,
when you disconnected your range switch what does that do to your dash lights?
How many wires on that switch connector and there colors, you should be able to use a jumper between terminals or to ground to activate your dash lights and make it possible to start your tractor, or price the range switch and connect it to the wiring and activate it by hand.
None of which is a safe or recommended way to run your tractor.

Disconnecting it changed nothing on the dash, it's 3 wires and a variable resistor (I think). I get that its not ideal to run it without the safety features but I would prefer to make the repairs in a dry garage than out in the mud and rain. Also we are not talking about a safety that is all that important. I would have to start it while standing on the ground and leaning on the go pedal after having forgot to put the parking break on and forgetting to put it in neutral last time it was used. Also the throttle would most likely need to be above an idle to keep from stalling if I was pushing on the go pedal. So for me to risk all that so I can start it once maybe twice to bring it up to the shop or load it on the trailer is an acceptable risk in my book. My atv will start in any gear and never once has it caused a problem, I would be much more worried about bypassing the pto interlock. This tractor never had a seat safety, I could ghost walk next to it with cruse set and the rotary cutter running full speed! Not that I ever would! Also this all was written in a joking manner I try and work safe and keep all the factory safety in place.

 

[Coyote machine]

I stalled my DK40se HST out in the woods, and when I went to restart it the dash range light is blinking L. I can't seem to find N, it stays in L (and blinks) no mater where I put the shift lever. It has been acting up as far as the dash and the lever get out of sync but I can always find N somewhere along the shifting range. It has never blinked before. The worst part is that it's 1/2 mile in the woods and they are calling for on and off rain all week! Does anyone know how to bypass the neutral safety so I can get it up to the garage to make the repairs? The worst part is I asked my dealer to look at it last spring and it never acted up while they had it! Then when it went in this spring I asked them to check it again and again it worked perfectly for them!

I'm wondering if when it stalled it was in L and even though you are able to move the range selector lever the transmission is actually still stuck in L? Can you possibly move the tractor slightly, enough to be able to release it from being in low range; for instance with a come along and nearby tree, or similar?
I have had some issues with the range selector and finding neutral, and as I write this I recall there is a way to reset it by using the key switch in a certain sequence, I just can't recall where that info lies at the moment. I'll see what I can do to find it via a search...

Here's a link to some parts of the problem explained.
(I believe the switch reset fix is detailed in the shop manual, so I may take a trip to my barn to find it for you if I can't on the net).

RECOGNISE that the neutral switch IS tied into the CRUISE Control Module, as the link and thread will detail. This may be part of why your dealer didn't find the issue, or they may be unaware of the connection in the circuit. Think about it; it makes sense that the cruise circuit would be involved since it needs to 'read' what 'gear' the tractor is in to work, or to lockout cruise engagement, as required, based on position of the range selector lever and PTO switch, etc.
Here's the link for now:
http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/...02554-dk40se-hst-neutral-safety-switch-4.html

I'll be back with more shortly, hopefully. :thumbsup:

 

[Coyote machine]

I'm back, and I found the instructions for: "Functions for setting the range shift sensor and turning on the lamps, HST tractors ONLY.
This is almost all of the text in the manual; I left out basic items like having a fully charged battery and working ignition relay, etc.
Beginning at the top of page 11-36, in the electrical section of the July 2008 edition of the Kioti Service manual, is the section: Engine Starting Function.

Then: Conditions for Setting:

This entails two conditions, and it seems the brake pedal(s) MUST both be engaged while performing the following: 1. PTO is OFF. 2. Range selector must provide required voltage, (value) to indicate it is in NEUTRAL position.


Then, the 'H' lamp flashes when placing the CRUISE switch from neutral to ON and then to OFF position. (The H lamp will continue to flash while in setting mode).

NOW the SENSOR SETTING procedure:

When moving the range shift selector between the ranges, each will FLASH (on the dash indicator).
When each lamp flashes, move the CRUISE CONTROL from ON to NEUTRAL position. The corresponding lamp comes ON for 1 second to indicate the completion of the setting. My add: (Go through each position of the range selector, from L to H, including BOTH neutral positions).
Once complete, the sensor will operate normally, once the KEY switch is turned from ON to OFF and then ON again, after having completed the set sequence.

This may very well fix your issue and get you literally out of the woods and on the way back to Grandma's house.:licking:
Hopefully it will. Let us know....

 

[ritcheyvs]

I am not familiar with your tractor but,
when you disconnected your range switch what does that do to your dash lights?
How many wires on that switch connector and there colors, you should be able to use a jumper between terminals or to ground to activate your dash lights and make it possible to start your tractor, or price the range switch and connect it to the wiring and activate it by hand.
None of which is a safe or recommended way to run your tractor.

This "switch" is not like the neutral safety switch on a car. It is a potentiometer, like the volume control on an old analog radio. One lead is ground, one lead is 5v, and the third lead is the wiper. Neutral is indicated by one of several voltages that should be seen when the range selector is in a neutral position between ranges. I believe this "switch" is physically on the range select lever. The "switch" is connected to the cruise unit (a small electronic box) which provides the ground to the starter relay only when all the safety checks are OK.

 

[Apsterbobed]

Coyote Machine, thanks for all that info, I haven't read the thred you posted yet but I will take a look, I did know that the cruse and range switch were connected somehow. As far as being in neutral, it definitely is or was. I had shifted up to medium to run to the brush pile, when I got back to where I was working I forgot to drop back to low and stalled because I was up in medium. But I was working up hill so I put it in neutral and let the tractor roll back 2 or 3 feet before trying to restarting it. When I get out there I will try the sensor reset first then jumping the starter, sofar no rain bur I know it will as soon as I get out there!

 

[k0ua]

The starter relay is the first relay on the left on the tractors firewall as you stand by the radiator and look back at the operators station. The Black/blue wire is the wire that the cruise module throws a ground on when all safety parameters have been met. The key switch throws a 12 volts from the start position of the key on the other side of the relay coil. The black/blue wire is considered the ground side. When the relay energizes its main contacts it throws voltage toward the starter solenoid up on the starter to begin cranking the engine. If no ground is thrown by the cruise module then the key switch throwing 12 volts to the high side of the starter relay coil will not make the relay energize. SO, you COULD take an alligator clip (jumper wire) with one side clipped on a ground and the other side clipped on the black/blue wire connection (remove a little insulation if you have to) Then go try to engage the starter and the engine should crank. You do this all at your own risk, and I take no responsibility if you mess up. But if nothing else works, and you have to get the tractor out of the woods. this is one (not the only) way to do it. It may be a bit safer than applying power to the starter solenoid stud with a screwdriver. Or not. Good luck.

 

[Coyote machine]

Coyote Machine, thanks for all that info, I haven't read the thred you posted yet but I will take a look, I did know that the cruse and range switch were connected somehow. As far as being in neutral, it definitely is or was. I had shifted up to medium to run to the brush pile, when I got back to where I was working I forgot to drop back to low and stalled because I was up in medium. But I was working up hill so I put it in neutral and let the tractor roll back 2 or 3 feet before trying to restarting it. When I get out there I will try the sensor reset first then jumping the starter, sofar no rain bur I know it will as soon as I get out there!

No problem, you're welcome. I would have tried to post the actual schematics, but taking pics of them then uploading them, then posting them on this thread is too much like work.
Before you go trying all the other ideas in this thread try resetting your range selector the way its supposed to be done, as I detailed above.
It seems you already had the issue previously; it just decided to strand you most recently.

 

[Apsterbobed]

Alright, the tractor is back in the garage! First I tried disconnecting the battery, no change. Next I double checked that none of the wire harness plugs under the tractor had pulled loose, everything looked good and felt tight, no change. Checked the fuse for the cruse module, looked good but didn't put a meater on it. Next I double checked that I hadn't bumped the pto on, nope. Really hopefully I had missed something stupid, nope. Next I tried to reset the range slector, couldn't get anywhere with that. Now it is starting to lightly mist, so I popped the hood and stuffed a wire on the starter. That worked to start the tractor but didn't solve the underlying problem, still have the blinking L and can't start with the key. At least now it's sitting in the garage, I plan on calling the dealer tomorrow.

 

[Coyote machine]

Well the good news is it's back inside. I suspect the potentiometer at the range selector has gone south. Now you can get your dealer to work on the problem while it's present; a lot easier to fix than when it's not showing up when in the shop.
Keep us posted, we all want to know exactly what it turns out to be.:thumbsup:

 

[k0ua]

The easiest way to check the range sensor potentiometer is to pull it out and bench test it with an ohmmeter. I would prefer you use an actual meter not your "meater".

Here is what you should read. with the leads across the hi side and the ground side you should read 2000 ohms. if you place your meter across either hi or low sides and measure the wiper by moving the lever arm attached to the shaft of the "sensor" (potentiometer) you will see a varying resistance from near 0 ohms rising to 2000 ohms as the lever is moved. By placing the leads on the wiper and the other end terminal (hi or lo) you will see the same varying reading only in the opposite direction as it relates to the movement of the lever. If anything checks open, then you can be pretty assured the potentiometer is defective. The structure and function of this "sensor" is exactly the same as any other potentiometer or more commonly called a volume control when it is on a radio.

In this application on one end of the potentiometer 5 volts is applied and on the other end is ground. The wiper has a varying voltage sent back to the cruise unit depending on where in the arc of movement the lever attached to the wiper of the pot is located. The below picture is an example of little fellow that allowed his "meater" to get too near an electrical device.

 

[Apsterbobed]

Oh the joys of using my phone for everything... combine that with a lack of proof reading and autocorrect will get you every time! I have seen autocorrect change every character in a word except the first from simply switching the placement of two letters. Except this time I just fails to catch my own mistake. :laughing:

 

[k0ua]

Well the good news is you have the tractor in the dry where you can work on it. If you need further help let us know. If you decide to just let the dealer sort it out, then please let us know what he finds. It helps us help others in the future. All fun poking was done in the spirit of friendship.

 

[Apsterbobed]

Oh I found it funny, make me wonder what crazy things I had in work email from my phone :laughing: I have a call in with the dealer his techs haven't see the blinking L and couldn't find it in their (crap now you got me wondering if thats the correct their) manuals, so he called his kioti rep and is waiting on him to get back to him. Depending on what he hears I plan to give it to the dealer because it should be covered seeing as it has been an ongoing problem. I will let you know once it's resolved.

 

[Apsterbobed]

I talked to the dealer yesterday, not the usual person in service (probably because it was Saturday) they told me that they have ordered a new cruse module. He said if they wiggled the wires going into it they could get it working. Part should be in end of the week, hopefully this will fix this problem permanently!

 

[kco]

I realize this is an old thread but it appears a good one to add note my 2011 Kioti DK35SE HST's "Range Shift Selector". It looks like the name has changed to the "Stroke Sensor" assembly with a price of $135.14 (from the Michigan Iron site). This morning my tractor had neutral position display problems similar to this thread's original post.

It seemed to start after I had difficulty shifting from Neutral to Medium range despite following the procedure of trying to slowly ease it into gear while slightly pressing the forward pedal. However, I was able to shift to Low range and after that could shift through all ranges. I did not notice the problem until I tried to restart it after unloading a bucket load of firewood. It would not start in any Neutral position but would start in the Medium and High range positions. I think, but am not sure it did not start in the Low range position.

The dash range indicator showed:
"N" with the lever was in "H"
"M" with the lever was in "N" position between "M" and "H" positions
"N" with the lever in the "M" position
"L" with the lever in the "N" position between "L" and "M" positions
"L" with the lever in the "L" position

I finished a few more bucket loads of wood and came in and found this thread. It seemed like the previous difficulty shifting into "M" might be related to binding in the "Stroke Sensor/Range Shift Selector" part. I checked it from underneath since KOUA said that is how the dealer changed his switch (rather than removing the seat). I wiggled the lever and checked the nut on the shaft that appears to hold the shaft on the sensor and all seemed tight. I decided it would be easier to remove the seat (I had done so before when removing the rear hydraulic detentes) and decided to move the tractor to the shop. When I went to start it all had returned to normal and has remained that way. I wonder if something in the switch or the lever rotated on the sensor's shaft when it refused to shift into "M" this morning (although I did not use undue force attempting that).

My question is; is the lever on the switch's shaft fixed in one position or is it possible for the lever to rotate if the nut is not tight enough? If the lever is fixed in one position I suspect the problem is internal and it is just a matter of time before I need a new switch. For now I'll carry a wire to jump the starter solenoid in case it gives more serious trouble again.

 

[k0ua]

I realize this is an old thread but it appears a good one to add note my 2011 Kioti DK35SE HST's "Range Shift Selector". It looks like the name has changed to the "Stroke Sensor" assembly with a price of $135.14 (from the Michigan Iron site). This morning my tractor had neutral position display problems similar to this thread's original post.

It seemed to start after I had difficulty shifting from Neutral to Medium range despite following the procedure of trying to slowly ease it into gear while slightly pressing the forward pedal. However, I was able to shift to Low range and after that could shift through all ranges. I did not notice the problem until I tried to restart it after unloading a bucket load of firewood. It would not start in any Neutral position but would start in the Medium and High range positions. I think, but am not sure it did not start in the Low range position.

The dash range indicator showed:
"N" with the lever was in "H"
"M" with the lever was in "N" position between "M" and "H" positions
"N" with the lever in the "M" position
"L" with the lever in the "N" position between "L" and "M" positions
"L" with the lever in the "L" position

I finished a few more bucket loads of wood and came in and found this thread. It seemed like the previous difficulty shifting into "M" might be related to binding in the "Stroke Sensor/Range Shift Selector" part. I checked it from underneath since KOUA said that is how the dealer changed his switch (rather than removing the seat). I wiggled the lever and checked the nut on the shaft that appears to hold the shaft on the sensor and all seemed tight. I decided it would be easier to remove the seat (I had done so before when removing the rear hydraulic detentes) and decided to move the tractor to the shop. When I went to start it all had returned to normal and has remained that way. I wonder if something in the switch or the lever rotated on the sensor's shaft when it refused to shift into "M" this morning (although I did not use undue force attempting that).

My question is; is the lever on the switch's shaft fixed in one position or is it possible for the lever to rotate if the nut is not tight enough? If the lever is fixed in one position I suspect the problem is internal and it is just a matter of time before I need a new switch. For now I'll carry a wire to jump the starter solenoid in case it gives more serious trouble again.

The dealer did not change that potentiometer that detects the position of range selector. He changed the cruise control module which this potentiometer feeds. This NOT a switch it is a pot. Another word for it is variable resistor. The cruise module reads a variable voltage that comes out of the center lead (wiper) of the pot. I think it is 5 volts that is fed into the pot on its high side and the low side is grounded and the wiper is a variable voltage, which an integrator circuit in the cruise module reads this voltage and decides to light up the range lights or N light. There is a calibration alignment procedure and a test procedure in the manual. As for how the shaft is attached, I can't remember as I thew away the one that Motor 7 sent me a couple of years ago. I tested it as a pot and it was defective, it had some dead spots (resistance opened up) in its rotation. Motor 7 had already replaced this pot and it had solved his problem but wanted me to double check it and I confirmed it was defective. Let me know if I can be of any further.