$11,000 Water Bill

[TnAndy]

The pic in this post show's the pipe is "DWV". I'm not a licensed plumber but as far as I know the "DWV" means Drain-Waste-Vent, only!

BINGO !

DWV pipe and fittings are not meant for pressure. Should have used sch 40, 480 PSI pipe with the bell sockets formed into the ends. The entire line needs to be pulled and replaced.

 

[BrokeFarmerJohn]

I like the idea of having the military lawyers help your wife out, I think it's only fair when your on active duty.

I would have your wife collect as much info as possible and sit down with a Jag? military lawyer and see what they think, you will get more out of your builder if he knows you and your wife are represented by a lawyer(s).

I'm sure the builder will try to get out of not properly fixing the line, I would also tell the guy to redo the line and burry it 3ft down, not the 2ft it was.

 

[justinramani]

The pic in this post show's the pipe is "DWV". I'm not a licensed plumber but as far as I know the "DWV" means Drain-Waste-Vent, only!

I read the ASTM D1785 listing on the pipe which seems to cover pressure systems....

 

[GregbkH]

Could be caused by excess glue not being wiped from the pipe. The glue will actually melt the pipe so the joint will "weld" together. Regardless, the fault should be on the plumber/contractor.

 

[justinramani]

So two votes for poly pipe. Any other potential options?

 

[Oldoak]

I read the ASTM D1785 listing on the pipe which seems to cover pressure systems....

Appears like you are fighting the people here who are trying to help you.

PVC DWV pipe is meant for just what is says: DRAIN-WAIST-VENT. It should have never been used for your water supply line, period.
50 joints, underground, is also ridiculous no matter what type of pipe is used. Just asking for trouble.

Toyboy describes what should be used. That's also what we used here in PA in rural areas from our well casings to dwellings. The only joints are at the connections on both ends and has the durability of a lifetime plus.

Up north here they use the flexible black plastic pipe that comes in a large coil. It's buried in all kinds of soil in a bed of sand. I don't know what they call it, but I'd never use the rigid plastic pipe for anything but drain. Indoor plumbing has gone from copper to PEX also. Home runs, no joints and tough.

 

[justinramani]

Appears like you are fighting the people here who are trying to help you.

PVC DWV pipe is meant for just what is says: DRAIN-WAIST-VENT. It should have never been used for your water supply line, period.
50 joints, underground, is also ridiculous no matter what type of pipe is used. Just asking for trouble.

Toyboy describes what should be used. That's also what we used here in PA in rural areas from our well casings to dwellings. The only joints are at the connections on both ends and has the durability of a lifetime plus.

Definitely not trying to fight anyone on here. Trust me - don't really have much fight left in me at this point. Just want to ensure that I have a full understanding of all the moving pieces. I absolutely appreciate all of the input thus far.

 

[ruffdog]

My house was build using the long black coil of tubing. It has lasted over 20 years with no leaks and it is a 650ft run from the well with a 2hp pump. The tubing says 100psi on it and I think 1-1/4......I'm running about 50psi for press.

 

[ruffdog]

BINGO !

DWV pipe and fittings are not meant for pressure. Should have used sch 40, 480 PSI pipe with the bell sockets formed into the ends. The entire line needs to be pulled and replaced.

Right! The op's pipe and the shape of the joint ends reminds me of the stuff we use as underground conduit.

 

[EddieWalker]

Yes, I know that at least two other leaks occurred at joints. I don't think those leaks were nearly as big.

I believe you said that the run is 1,300 feet. For a water line that far, gasketed pipe has to be used. There is so much movement in the ground that that it pulls and compresses the pipe over and over again. Eventually it fails. Your pictures showing the hole is a classic example of this type of failure. It only takes a hairline crack to give water the ability to leak. Then over time, that leak grows as the pipe erodes. I would have expected this to have taken several years to happen.

Since you have said that there where two other leaks, it's proof that the gluing up of the pipes was done wrong. I see the purple primer and clear solvent. Was Heavy Duty clear solvent used or Regular Solvent? How old was the solvent? I only use new Heavy Duty solvent for PVC water lines under pressure.

How do you know this is the only leak when they have already found two others? Is there a shut off valve just before the house? Can you turn it off and then look at the meter to make sure there the wheel isn't turning?

How old is the meter? The guy in charge of my water district told me that some water districts have older pumps that will surge the water. In older water meters, they will read this surge as water going through the meter as usage even though it's just surging back and forth.

Bottom line, the wrong pipe was used for your water line. Whoever made that decision is responsible for it failing. It has to be replaced with the proper pipe!!!!!!

 

[EddieWalker]

So two votes for poly pipe. Any other potential options?

Poly pipe has a horrible history of failure. I wouldn't use it. Granted, there are a variety of grades that it comes in that jump considerably in cost, so there is better and then there is very very good. But the cost is prohibitive compared to gasketed water line pipe. To my knowledge from what I've been told by people running and working for water districts, their experiments in poly pipe has proven to be a utter disaster.

For all of those who have it and haven't had a problem, that's great. But it's not something that I personally would recommend to anybody!!!

Look at what the water departments and new neighborhoods are using. It's all blue colored gasketed pipe. Probably C-900.

Be careful of advice from those who are suggesting using what they have just because it's worked for them. Research what has to be used over long runs. 1,300 feet is a VERY LONG run. Call the water department and ask them what the best pipe is to use. Ask them if you can buy it from them. My water department will sell me pipe at their cost, tax free.

 

[Sigarms]

Bottom line, the wrong pipe was used for your water line. Whoever made that decision is responsible for it failing. It has to be replaced with the proper pipe!!!!!!

+1

Eddie also brings up a good point on the glue. It's the "little" things that can add up between a good install and a bad install.

Absolute worst case, have your wife contact a reputable company and get a second "professional" opinion in writing about the issue and why it happened. The issue lies with the people who laid the pipe, and since you still have a warranty left on the install, needs to be addressed ASAP with the contractor, and dated in writing to cover your butt IMO.

I don't know about residential water lines in NC, but I do know on every HVAC install, in the State of NC, the contractor has to be licensed and a permit should be pulled on every job. The HVAC contractor is responsible for his work for one year, all labor included to rectify any mistakes they made (this includes sub contracting for new homes as well).

Complaint Information

It's apparent a mistake was made, and not on your end. It needs to be addressed.

 

[ray66v]

Poly pipe has a horrible history of failure. I wouldn't use it.

Ploy pipe has no strength if you heat it. So, perhaps the fact that you are in Texas has something to do your experience.

In northern Ohio, black poly is virtually all that's used now. And, it's extremely reliable.

 

[justinramani]

I've done a little digging on the state website and it doesn't look like the line was installed by a licensed plumber. I have already submitted an initial complaint to the State GC board.

 

[dodge man]

I wish I was more help, I hate your situation. I work for a civil engineering company and have a an engineering degree but am a land surveyor and am pretty clueless on this stuff. I have a service about 600 feet long and they used rolls of plastic pipe that was blue in color. I've kind of learned to trust Eddie on this stuff, he's built some stuff in his time.

All just add these meters tend to be pretty accurate. There could ba a problem but I bet the reading is correct. One thing that seems for sure is the builder used the wrong pipe. He went cheap and now it's time for him to pay the price. If he balks, a letter from a military lawyer might put the fear of God in him.

 

[nybirdman]

The pic in this post show's the pipe is "DWV". I'm not a licensed plumber but as far as I know the "DWV" means Drain-Waste-Vent, only!

EXACTLY! Builders/plumbers fault all the way.WRONG pipe used.Replace the WHOLE line with the proper materials.

 

[Sigarms]

I've done a little digging on the state website and it doesn't look like the line was installed by a licensed plumber. I have already submitted an initial complaint to the State GC board.

Have you thought having your wife making contact with the local TV station? Generally every TV station has a consumer complaint department that the news department finds interesting and note worthy to make the news in the buyers defense.

With a 11k water bill due to the apparent neglect of the builder, and the head of the family being deployed in a combat zone in defense of our country, I can't help but think that some news organization would think this would be a story looking into. If the builder doesn't care about bad press, I can assure you, the North Carolina sate inspections department does.

If the builder isn't having a "Oh S**T! moment, he darn well better should be IMO because he's the one who picked someone to run the lines to begin with.

 

[justinramani]

I'm going to ask my wife to talk about the situation with her JAG. So far I have complaints with the state GC board as well as the state plumbing board. Our 1 year warranty extends until the 31st, so that's some good news. We have initiated official communication with enough parties to demonstrate that the issue arose and was noticed prior to the warranty period ending. I hate to take the nuclear option. But I don't mess around when it comes to my family. This is a horrible thing for my wife to be going through. She's on active duty as well and is struggling to manage her schedule and our 1 year old as it is.

 

[ruffdog]

Ploy pipe has no strength if you heat it. So, perhaps the fact that you are in Texas has something to do your experience.

In northern Ohio, black poly is virtually all that's used now. And, it's extremely reliable.

Not only that but down there they may only bury it 12 inches deep while we bury it 4+ feet.

 

[Sigarms]

I hate to take the nuclear option.

With a 11k water bill, you have to.

I've known HVAC contractors to eat a homeowners $500 electric bill because they wired the stip heaters incorrectly which makes them run all the time. An 11k bill is a little harder to swollow on the contractors end, but the "nuclear option" may be the only way to right a wrong with that kind of "mistake money" involved.