Blow-in insulation behind pegboard?

[AGRIMAN]

Have you ever had any complaints from people that have used Attic Cat blown in insulation?

Eddie,

No, not so far. A few mouths back we sprayed 2" of closed cell in a crawl space for a guy and he asked us about coming back and spraying his roof line. He currently has the attic cat blow in, but he didn't really have anything bad to say about it.

All he really said was that after researching foam, he decided it a better choice for him. To the best of my memory, that's the only time we have ran into anyone that had it. Most people around here have cellulose.

 

[Sodo]

I'm looking at all the options and pretty much have to blow in AttiCat and get moving on my workbench. If I start tearing into the walls then it's moving outlets, taping, mudding and I don't have the time. Some of the tool pegs have the 1/4" peg and they are hard to pull out. The thinner ones practically jump out on their own.

I've torn out the old workbench - its now a clean slate (empty room). I'll repaint the ceiling and the floor. I wish the pegboard was white. Wonder if paint will stick to it, its kind of glossy. I might cover some of the pegboard with drywall (near the woodstove).

 

[AGRIMAN]

Not to be argumentative, but at what cost is spray foam the best?

I agree that it's superior to anything else on the market, but I struggle with the cost of it over fiberglass bats for the walls in a shop or barn with big doors in it that are rarely sealed, and usually wide open when working on projects. In my opinion, the best bang for the dollar is maxing out your R value in the attic and sealing off your exterior walls so the air cannot get through it.

Eddie,

It really depends on what kind of shop you have. If it's a house style structure (stick built wall, with a ceiling and roof line) then fiberglass bats can be and option, but if it's a red iron building or a included pole barn built with purlins than your options are fewer.

Either way, the same basic principles still apply. In the summer with the door open you are still trying to deflect the radiant heat off the roof and walls to keep it cooler inside. In the winter with the doors closed you are trying to stop any unwanted air flow to help keep the cold out. Foam is the superior product, but it come at a cost.


Everyone has to decide what's important for them. For the man that only works in his shop for a few hours a month, the added cost of foam might seem too much. For the man that spends most of his time in the shop, his comfort may be well worth it.

Here are two pictures of red buildings that we have sprayed foamed (and painted). One did not have any insulation, the other one had the normal fiberglass (with white plastic backing) which we cut out in order to foam it. Both were foamed mainly to keep them cooler in the summer.


3,000 sqf Welding Shop

19,000 sqf Car Action.

 

[EddieWalker]

I'm all for closed cell foam. There is no doubt that it's the best of the best out there. The question is the cost of it compared to other options. With metal buildings, there really isn't anything else that will work. But for a work shop that isn't used every day, all day, year round, I struggle with the cost of it compared to fiberglass in the walls and attic cat in the attic. Maybe if I lived up North, I would think differently. Here, the heat is our biggest enemy, and summer will always be brutal!!! If I can lower the inside temp of my shop ten degrees, it's night and day different. Attic cat accomplishes this nicely.

 

[Gary Fowler]

What is the cost of AttiCat vs blown in fiberglass?

 

[EddieWalker]

What is the cost of AttiCat vs blown in fiberglass?

I haven't seen blown in fiberglass in a very long time. The main two choices for blown in insulation in attics is Atticat and that nasty, dusty, smelly stuff. I haven't used it in years, and forget the brand name. The price per bag is a lot more for Atticat, but when you do the math comparing it to the other stuff, it comes out to be the same per square foot and thickness. On the houses that I've done, most don't have enough insulation in their attics to cover the 2x6 ceiling joists. For about a grand, depending on the size of the house, I can bring that up to 24 inches. In every case, their energy bills drop dramatically. I don't know of anything else that will give you such a quick and easy to see payback.

 

[Industrial Toys]

I had my basement walls foamed. When I burned the scrap, I was alarmed at the explosiveness of the burn process, and am reluctant to use it anywhere else. Our rather large local Ice Cream plant was completely destroyed when a welder touched off that foam! Unless you want to save adjacent structures, there isn't even much use calling the FD when that stuff goes off!

I just have to look at pegboard hooks and they fall out. Why not blow in glass behind the pegboard and re-panel it over the pegboard along with a vapour barrier?

 

[Sodo]

If I get tired of pegboard I can just bury it. Thats a good suggestion it lets me get going.

 

[AGRIMAN]

I had my basement walls foamed. When I burned the scrap, I was alarmed at the explosiveness of the burn process, and am reluctant to use it anywhere else. Our rather large local Ice Cream plant was completely destroyed when a welder touched off that foam! Unless you want to save adjacent structures, there isn't even much use calling the FD when that stuff goes off! ?

I would really like to know the brand name of the explosive foam that was sprayed in your basement. Modern quality foams will not burn (melt) without a direct flame source. Take the flame away and it will stop.

 

[KennyG]

I just have to look at pegboard hooks and they fall out. Why not blow in glass behind the pegboard and re-panel it over the pegboard along with a vapour barrier?

I'm in agreement with you on the vapor barrier and blown in insulation but I would go with cellulose instead of fiberglass if there is a good moisture barrier on the outside (like house wrap). If there is not, moisture will get into the insulation (fiberglas or cellulose) and be a problem. Also, if you have trouble with pegboard hooks, go to Ebay and search for "plastic pegboard hooks". I've been using them for years and never had one fall out.

 

[radioman]

personally i hate pegboard. even with the plastic clips to hold the hooks is pita. i had a customer last week that wanted pegboard in his closet and had blown in insulation in one corner of a wall. its the gray cellulose stuff -if you tap the pegboard the stuff just flys out of the holes. i took the pegboard down and installed roxul for sound barrier for him. the pegboard was already white on one side so it brighten up the closet.

If i were you - i would be careful about adding blow in insulation because if you have metal siding - you WILL have moisture issues and all that money is wasted. I would just pull the pegboard off and install roxul. roxul has a "higher" melting point at 2100 f degrees and attic cat is classified at 1382f. plus you wouldnt worry about stuff flying out of the holes. it still will be insulated as long the insulation drys out completely.
I persoally think foam is best in buildings with metal siding but you need to install fire retardant covering like drywall, but hey this is a shop... no easy solutions here...

 

[s219]

When we built our house in 2012/2013, we decided to go with spray foam and cellulose in the 2x6 walls. There's about 1.5-2" of spray foam, then cellulose blown over that. One thing I like about the spray foam is that it makes the house snug as a bug and really seals up the walls. I also like the buffer it provides to keep any water vapor in the walls above the dew point, to avoid moisture problems. I am sure the insulation experts arrived at that arrangement as optimal somehow, in terms of function and cost.

Our attic is entirely blown cellulose. At some point I'd like to add more insulation up there and I'll be researching my options. I assume almost any blown in product will be OK on top of the cellulose.

By the way, one hard lesson I learned about peg board -- all my peg board accessories and hooks, many of which are hand-me-downs that date from the 1960s and newer, are sized for 1/4" peg board. Well, we bought a half dozen sheets of peg board for the workshop in my new house, and I was surprised to find all the hooks tip down when hung on the board. Turns out peg board sold at Lowes and HD now is about 1/8" thickness. They don't even offer 1/4" at these stores. I haven't searched to see if I can find 1/4" anymore, but I will if I ever need to install peg board again. The 1/8" stuff seems plenty stiff and has no problem holding lots of heavy tools, but I just don't like having the hooks all angled downhill. I have several long hooks for things like levels and hand saws, and you can watch the tools slide away from the wall after being hung up. A few minutes later and they are all at the downhill end of the hook.

 

[EddieWalker]

I tried pegboard a long time ago when I bought my first house and thought it would be nice over my work bench in my garage. I hated it. Now I just put up OSB and put a screw into the OSB where I want to hang a tool. If I already had pegboard up, I might try to live with it, but more then likely, I would just cover it up with OSB or plywood.

 

[s219]

It's kind of funny, out in my barn I have taken to putting nails in the wall girts to hang stuff. You can really hang a lot of crap on the walls -- to free up other space in the barn and make everything easy to find. I just keep an assortment of 16D-20D nails, and some larger spikes, and it's all I need out there. Adds a real charming country feel to the place to have tools and other crap randomly hanging on the wall (my wife says it's starting to look like the inside of a Cracker Barrel restaurant).

 

[EddieWalker]

I like screws because I can easily take them out and change locations. I've also found that for my wrenches, I have several in the same size that I can hang several on a three inch deck screw, or just one on a sheetrock screw.

For my shop, I don't like tool boxes. I like to be able to look on the wall and see what I have, or what isn't put away and missing. Sockets are on an open tray off to the side of my workbench where I can see if there is one missing at a glance. For me, the struggle is putting stuff away and having it there ready to use when I need it.

 

[Sodo]

It appears to be T-111 siding but I've only had the place for a week. You're right I need to know if it's sealed. It has several layers of paint.

I wonder if the AttiCat would dust out of the holes? If there was just a few holes, the pressure changes would each cause a puff of air out of the few holes. For example every time a door slams. But when it's completely perforated I don't see that happening. But certainly there can be some air movement and a dusty insulation would be trouble. Like what if you bump the wall, oilcanning the pegboard in a little, does it puff dust out like the guy above said? So what about AttiCat type? If there's truly no dust then it seems like it will work. And if not then I can bury it all in drywall.

So how do I find out if there's no dust? There's "not much dust compared to cellulose" .......and...... "NO DUST!" How do I find out where AttiCat falls (in that continuum)?

It's gettin' down to it, I need to s**t or get off the pot. I'm not looking forward to taping and mudding.

Something to be said for having a little time to put out a shop fire (as opposed to RUN!)

 

[Sodo]

For my shop, I don't like tool boxes. I like to be able to look on the wall and see what I have, or what isn't put away and missing. Sockets are on an open tray off to the side of my workbench where I can see if there is one missing at a glance. For me, the struggle is putting stuff away and having it there ready to use when I need it.

This is the conclusion / shop configuration I'm coming to..... If I have to open a drawer I think that's one reason it doesn't get put away.

 

[dragoneggs]

Looking' good Sodo! Did you have to cut two plugs between the studs because of blockers half way up?

 

[Gary Fowler]

I like screws because I can easily take them out and change locations. I've also found that for my wrenches, I have several in the same size that I can hang several on a three inch deck screw, or just one on a sheetrock screw.

For my shop, I don't like tool boxes. I like to be able to look on the wall and see what I have, or what isn't put away and missing. Sockets are on an open tray off to the side of my workbench where I can see if there is one missing at a glance. For me, the struggle is putting stuff away and having it there ready to use when I need it.

I agree with using screws, much easier to place without whacking my thumb with a hammer. I don't put my tools up on the wall though, well except for my pipe wrenches, hack saw, crow bar and a few other things that I rarely use. Wrenches are in my tool boxes, one drawer for my SAE, one for my metric, one for my screw drivers, one for pliers, one for my air tools and 4" grinder stuff, 2 small drawers hold my punches, chisels, flashlight, tire pressure gauge, felt tip markers and other metal markers plus a few other small items. I have one drawer for my portable socket set in 1/4" and 3/8" drive for small stuff. My larger sockets are on a shelf at the back of my shop along with my tap and die set, screw assortment and air nailer/stapler and assorted staples. Lots of other stuff on the 20 foot long shelf also like chargers for my batteries, chainsaws etc.
I put everything back in it's place when finished, that way I can find it again (CRS syndrome doesn't work against me that way). I hate working at my brother-in-laws shop because he seldom puts things back when finished and almost never puts the back in the same place. We spend more time looking for something than doing the work. Most of the time, if a machine is drivable, I have him bring it to my shop which is only about 350 feet away anyway and I can fix it faster than we can find the tools at his place.