Converting FEL Bucket to Four in One

[npalen]

Wondering if anyone has tried modifying a standard bucket to make it a four in one? Seems like it should be possible but would like to hear of some of the issues that might be involved.

 

[BukitCase]

I'll be watching this one for sure, been trying to find a 4n1 for my 580B ever since I bought it about 12 years ago - NOBODY sells a 4n1 unless you wanna buy whatever it's attached to also -

The Case models are only about 80% of the capacity of standard buckets, most likely because the 4n1 has 2 extra areas (back of the clamshell and front of the "blade") that are beefed up for grading, grabbing, etc, plus extra metal to mount/protect the cylinders that operate the clamshell - so if you were to convert a standard bucket there's a good chance it would end up a few hundred lbs heavier than it started -

With a big enough tractor, might be a moot point.

After looking in vain for the last dozen years, I bought a 2-lid 6' grapple for mine - haven't set it up yet, too many other irons in the fire - but when I do, the whole loader will get a (not skid steer) QA setup so I can swap between bucket, brush forks, fork lift, grapple, and any 3ph implement I might wanna try out front - possibly including a hydraulic motor driven 6' flail that's now only rear mount pto driven - I never thought it was a good idea to first DRIVE OVER stuff and flatten it, and THEN try to mow it....

Anyway, from what I've figured out on my stuff I'd probably recommend KEEPING your full-size bucket and fabbing a slightly smaller 4n1 - not only for weight, but it's almost ALWAYS easier to design something from scratch KNOWING what it's gonna be asked to do, than to band-aid something that's ALREADY functional into something that's SORTA functional.

YMMV, but that's been my experience on most things... Steve

 

[RickB]

There's nowhere near enough steel in a standard bucket to make it practical or worthwhile to convert it.

Go look at some 4 in 1's and look at how they are built.

Note that I said practical, worthwhile. Possible was not a term I used.

 

[MechE1]

Agree with RickB. For the time, effort, and money involved in converting to a practical unit, you could buy one for sure. I considered making my own from scratch. I have all the materials, tools, and knowledge at my disposal. It just was not worth it. Not even close. But, if you decide to go for it, good luck.

Here's another thread. I don't think he went forward, but you could check.
http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/...ndard-bucket-4in1.html?highlight=#post4428298

 

[ovrszd]

There's nowhere near enough steel in a standard bucket to make it practical or worthwhile to convert it.

I agree.

 

[npalen]

Thanks for the feedback guys! Some very good opinions based on knowledge and experience.

Edit: Some interesting pics of 4 in 1's:

Photo Gallery

 

[ovrszd]

Thanks for the feedback guys! Some very good opinions based on knowledge and experience.

As I mentioned in the linked thread, I'd start with a dozer blade of the right width if I proceeded to build.

Please start a thread and post your progress if you decide to tackle this project. Friend of mine has an old 450 JD tracked loader/backhoe. It has a 4 way bucket. Very, very handy!!!!

 

[Xfaxman]

If you are looking for new: Everything Attachments | Skid Steer Attachments, Tractor Attachments, 3 Point Hitch Attachments, and Farm Tractor Implements.

 

[npalen]

As I mentioned in the linked thread, I'd start with a dozer blade of the right width if I proceeded to build.

Please start a thread and post your progress if you decide to tackle this project. Friend of mine has an old 450 JD tracked loader/backhoe. It has a 4 way bucket. Very, very handy!!!!

I agree that a dozer blade would be a good start as it would have the designed strength for the "push mode" and the rest of the bucket could be built strong enough. The angular shaped cross section of a conventional bucket gives it strength in both directions but that is lost if a bucket would be cut apart to make a 4 in 1. Torsional strength comes into play also if trying to "grapple" an object at one end of the bucket.

I've noticed that the 4 in 1's on the market are at about 60" for narrowest width available. I could go to a 54" probably but a 60" is starting to get a little wide.

I agree that weight is definitely an issue especially with my little B9200 and BF350 loader. (350 kg rating) May have to build this puppy out of titanium. I don't have quik tatch either so a 4 in 1 would serve as a mini grapple as well as bucket.

 

[txndncowboy]

Could I ask a dumb question, just what is a 4-n-1 used for? There must some benefit to having such a tool but I'm having trouble figuring out just what all 4 tools are that are now in 1 tool that would all work off a FEL.

 

[k0ua]

Could I ask a dumb question, just what is a 4-n-1 used for? There must some benefit to having such a tool but I'm having trouble figuring out just what all 4 tools are that are now in 1 tool that would all work off a FEL.

The idea of a 4 in 1 bucket is this.

1: It works as a standard bucket for scooping loose material
2: It works as a bulldozer blade (well sort of) when the upper clamshell is raised up out of the way
3: It works as a scraper in the back dragging mode with a cutting edge on the back lower side of the bucket
4: It works sort of like a grapple with the clamshell opened up to grasp logs and rocks between the upper clamshell portion and the lower portion.
There are usually some "teeth" on the lower portion to help hold these logs or debris from slipping out.

You maybe could even argue that a 5th function is the dumping of loose material can be accomplished by opening the clamshell for a "bottom dump" instead of the normal scoop being turned downward into "dump" angle. This would kinda allow for possibly a higher height to clear the side of a dump truck without having to angle the scoop down.

In my analysis a 4 in 1 bucket does a bunch of things, and doesn't do any of them as well as a dedicated front implement. BUT it does it with just one tool that you always have with you. Sort of like a multitool. Is it as good of a screwdriver or wrench or even knife blade as a dedicated screwdriver, wrench or knife? No probably not, or at least not in all circumstances.

So you have to decide, is having a "multitool" with you all the time vs having dedicated tools the way you want to go? For some folks, yes, for others, no, not so much.

 

[ArlyA]

We plan to get one for doing trail work. That is, we're getting logs and slash off our trails on a regular bases. Maybe dozing dirt and rocks as well??? (do people know what slash is?)

 

[npalen]

The idea of a 4 in 1 bucket is this.

1: It works as a standard bucket for scooping loose material
2: It works as a bulldozer blade (well sort of) when the upper clamshell is raised up out of the way
3: It works as a scraper in the back dragging mode with a cutting edge on the back lower side of the bucket
4: It works sort of like a grapple with the clamshell opened up to grasp logs and rocks between the upper clamshell portion and the lower portion.
There are usually some "teeth" on the lower portion to help hold these logs or debris from slipping out.

You maybe could even argue that a 5th function is the dumping of loose material can be accomplished by opening the clamshell for a "bottom dump" instead of the normal scoop being turned downward into "dump" angle. This would kinda allow for possibly a higher height to clear the side of a dump truck without having to angle the scoop down.

In my analysis a 4 in 1 bucket does a bunch of things, and doesn't do any of them as well as a dedicated front implement. BUT it does it with just one tool that you always have with you. Sort of like a multitool. Is it as good of a screwdriver or wrench or even knife blade as a dedicated screwdriver, wrench or knife? No probably not, or at least not in all circumstances.

So you have to decide, is having a "multitool" with you all the time vs having dedicated tools the way you want to go? For some folks, yes, for others, no, not so much.

I hadn't considered that "5th function" but that would be important on my loader that only raises the bucket to about six feet. Thanks for your input.

Edit: Here's another interesting bucket: Demo-Dozer Skid Steer Attachment
- YouTube

 

[ovrszd]

We plan to get one for doing trail work. That is, we're getting logs and slash off our trails on a regular bases. Maybe dozing dirt and rocks as well??? (do people know what slash is?)

Maybe explain?

 

[RickB]

Slash is the resulting debris from the use of an implement called a slasher.

A mulching head would be a type of slasher, I suppose. A Brown Tree Cutter also comes to mind.

 

[Xfaxman]

I thought slash was tree tops and limbs.

 

[ArlyA]

You are correct, it is the debris left over from harvesting trees.

I thought slash was tree tops and limbs.

 

[MossRoad]

That's not the first thing google brings up when you search for slash....

 

[k0ua]

That's not the first thing google brings up when you search for slash....
View attachment 498112

is that what you run through a slasher?

 

[RNeumann]

The idea of a 4 in 1 bucket is this.

1: It works as a standard bucket for scooping loose material
2: It works as a bulldozer blade (well sort of) when the upper clamshell is raised up out of the way
3: It works as a scraper in the back dragging mode with a cutting edge on the back lower side of the bucket
4: It works sort of like a grapple with the clamshell opened up to grasp logs and rocks between the upper clamshell portion and the lower portion.
There are usually some "teeth" on the lower portion to help hold these logs or debris from slipping out.

You maybe could even argue that a 5th function is the dumping of loose material can be accomplished by opening the clamshell for a "bottom dump" instead of the normal scoop being turned downward into "dump" angle. This would kinda allow for possibly a higher height to clear the side of a dump truck without having to angle the scoop down.

In my analysis a 4 in 1 bucket does a bunch of things, and doesn't do any of them as well as a dedicated front implement. BUT it does it with just one tool that you always have with you. Sort of like a multitool. Is it as good of a screwdriver or wrench or even knife blade as a dedicated screwdriver, wrench or knife? No probably not, or at least not in all circumstances.

So you have to decide, is having a "multitool" with you all the time vs having dedicated tools the way you want to go? For some folks, yes, for others, no, not so much.

4.1 is the clamshell on a job site. It's used to load the bucket with material from a pile without pushing into the pile. It is also used to pick up the last bit of a pile. Especially if said pile is on a surface that you don't want scratched etc.

5 is definitely in play! This is the best way to meter sand or other material.

In construction it is the go to bucket style. It does the tasks needed extremely well!

Also note for optimum use, the 3rd function needs to be a "true" third function so you can curl squeeze and lift at the same time.

The one downside is weight. If you need the extra few hundred pounds of lifting capacity this isn't the ideal tool.