Hydraulic options for 3 point log splitter

[Newbie7100HST]

Hey Folks,

Id like to get a log splitter attachment for my B7100. One of the splitters I'm looking at specs a minimum hydraulic flow of 4 gpm@2700psi I downloaded the shop manual and it looks like the pump on the B7100 does just hair under 4 gpm but only 1710psi.

What would be the simplest option to get a higher flow/psi? Id really like to be up around 8-10 gpm for a faster cycle time.

The PTO pumps I've seen are pretty expensive (could buy a used gas powered splitter for the same price)

Can I get a bigger pump to replace the stock pump?

Is it possible to mount a pump onto the stub at the front of the engine?

Would love to see some peoples set ups.

Thanks for any input you can provide.

 

[RNeumann]

You are into a much bigger project then it would be to buy a log splitter with its own motor.
But if you insist on using the tractor motor the "easiest" way is going to be to add a pump to the PTO. Then you will need to add a tank etc that is sized for the flow so you don't overheat things. Aftermarket higher flow pump that replace your existing pump don't really exist.
I looked into adding a pump etc so I could run a hydraulic snow blower. It didn't pencil..........
Good Luck

Btw at your current flow the splitter would be slow

 

[David_Kb7uns]

Self powered splitter, 8Hp 16GPM pump 34 ton force, and use BX to haul the rounds to the splitter and RTV hauls split wood.

David

 

[Dave M7040]

Hey Folks,

Id like to get a log splitter attachment for my B7100. One of the splitters I'm looking at specs a minimum hydraulic flow of 4 gpm@2700psi I downloaded the shop manual and it looks like the pump on the B7100 does just hair under 4 gpm but only 1710psi.

What would be the simplest option to get a higher flow/psi? Id really like to be up around 8-10 gpm for a faster cycle time.

The PTO pumps I've seen are pretty expensive (could buy a used gas powered splitter for the same price)

Can I get a bigger pump to replace the stock pump?

Is it possible to mount a pump onto the stub at the front of the engine?

Would love to see some peoples set ups.

Thanks for any input you can provide.[/QU


Why would you want to run up the hours on a great machine like a B7100 to split wood? Makes no sense! This from someone who did this on a 65 hp tractor.

First, if I am not mistaken the B7100 engine HP is 16 which means at the pto perhaps 12 or 13.

To drive your imaginary pump to produce 10 gpm at 2,500 psi:

GPM = 10
PSI = 2500
GPM X PSI X .0007 = 10 X 2500 X .0007 = 17.5 horsepower

I short you don't have the pto or even engine power to do what you want.

You have to buy almost everything except the gas engine to build your own splitter and, as you have realized, a pto pump from Princess Auto is $500 + taxes.
Connecting a pump to the front of the engine is great if you are a machinist otherwise you will be spending hundreds on hiring a machinist and buying couplings and hydraulic hoses and filters to connect everything together.

The pumps you get for the pto mount are not the two stage type which provide a high flow low pressure supply of oil until the pressure starts to build and then drop back to a high pressure, low flow configuration.

The cycle times for the gas engined two stage pump splitters will be so much faster and you will do double or triple the work that your B7100 machine will do.

Dave M7040

 

[boggen]

max hydrualic pressure = works out in some math to how much force the splitter can do.
the larger the diameter of the hydrualic cylinder. the more force it can produce to split a piece of wood.
the larger the diamter of the hydrualic cylinder, the slower it will move.
GPM (gallons per minute), the faster the GPM, the quicker the splitter responds, both in spitting the wood, and retracting.

TIP: goto google and type in...
wood splitter site:tractorbynet.com

the "site:tractorbynet.com" causes google only to search this site.

click up on images. there is a good amount of wood splitter threads and DIY setups. both mounted to FEL, and 3pt hitch, and various notations of folks using pallets and pallet forks on 3pt hitch to move split wood around, while leaving a pull behind splitter standing.

Surplus Center = good spot to find basic parts
grainger, northern tool, tractor supply, farm and fleet, farmking , and other local agriculture stores also a spot to find parts. if looking for DIY route.

 

[Newbie7100HST]

Thanks for the input folks.
I'm certainly not opposed to getting a gas powered splitter particularly if it's cheaper than the cost of upgrading my hydraulics.
That said I bought the tractor to do work with so it would be nice having one less engine to maintain, buy seperate fuel for.
I think I'll leave it up to fate to decide. If a decent gas powered splitter shows up for sale first in the online classifieds I'll go that route. If a 3point splitter with appropriately sized pto pump shows up I'll go that route.
From everyone's input I'll for sure rule out trying to install a front mount pump or an oversized pto pump.

 

[bellweather]

Another option is to rent a gas powered log splitter. Usually lots listed on Craigslist by folks who bought one then discovered it sits idle 90% of the time. I rented one for a weekend for $125 including pickup /delivery. I must have split 4+ cords of wood. Nice unit, but loud!

 

[Newbie7100HST]

Another option is to rent a gas powered log splitter. Usually lots listed on Craigslist by folks who bought one then discovered it sits idle 90% of the time. I rented one for a weekend for $125 including pickup /delivery. I must have split 4+ cords of wood. Nice unit, but loud!

Ya, I usually rent when I have a decent load bucked up. I like the idea of putting the hurt on someone else' equipment but its a pain to coordinate my time based on the availability of the splitter, go to the rental place (100km total to pick up and return) and then be under the gun to run it the whole time because I feel like I'm wasting money if its rented and not running. Plus after killing my self splitting all day I'd be looking at a giant pile to stack. I like the idea of going out for a couple of hours, splitting, stacking and cleaning up without feeling like I just ran a marathon.

I really like the Split-Fire splitter - double sided wedge is attached to the cylinder so it splits on both the foreword and back stroke. That way I'm not too concerned if its not super fast because its splitting twice as much each cycle. I'd be happy with a full one way stroke in 8-10 second.

 

[dodge man]

I looked at getting a splitter mounted on my BX. It seems like the splitter was almost as much money than a gas powered one and by the time I added in the cost for some rear remotes, it was a lot more than a stand alone splitter. Also like already said, its nice to have the tractor seperate for handling the wood.

 

[SDT]

Most folks are quickly dissatisfied with tractor driven log splitters for multiple reasons.

Operating a log splitter from the tractor pump will result in unsatisfactory cycle times. PTO driven pumps can rectify this problem to a degree but you will be using lots of fuel to provide engine RPM to produce GPM while running up engine hours to perform a task that is much better suited to a commercially available engine driven splitter.

Engine driven splitters have two stage pumps to produce high pressure and high volume and have small engines sized appropriately for the task.

SDT

 

[dougtrr2]

I heat with wood and use 4-6 cords of wood per year. I prefer a separate gas powered splitter. I cut the wood to length in the woods then load up my BX24 loader and carryall with wood. I drive it to my storage area and then split and stack it. I feel like I handle the wood the least amount that way.

Doug in SW IA

 

[bdhsfz6]

I can confirm what others have already said. Back in 1990, I built a splitter from a kit sold by Northern Tool and tapped into the FEL hydraulics of my B7100 HST to power it. My early model 7100 had a front mount external hyd. pump to power the FEL rated at 3 GPM / 1800 PSI. The splitter worked but was terribly slow. I spent more time waiting for it to cycle than actually splitting wood. I eventually added a 7HP gas engine and larger capacity 2 stage pump which worked much better. The project wound up costing more than a brand new gas powered model. It was a lesson learned and I don't recommend trying it.

 

[varmint]

Faced with such a decision, we went with the gas powered splitter, and I would do it again in a heartbeat. Tractor hauls log rounds, and pulls the trailer once it is filled with split wood.
The 35 ton gas splitter always starts easily, runs forever on a gallon of gas, and gets the job done no matter what gnarly stuff I throw at it. I wish it had a quicker return stroke- maybe a two stage sort of valuing? but otherwise a great tool. After years and cords, it leaks a bit of oil, but not enough to fuss about. If you don't already have a 3-point splitter, don't buy one! Lowe's sells the Dirty Hands brand, and I would check them out if in the market again.

(opps- I see you are in Ontario, so forget Lowes... Princess Auto sounds more likely!)

 

[ovrszd]

A tractor powered splitter requires one of two things. A very large tractor with hydraulic GPM approaching 20 gpm, or a PTO driven pump in the 20 GPM range. Without one of the two, it will become an extremely slow aggravation.

 

[Newbie7100HST]

Great real world experience and advice folks, Thanks so much. I'm still frustrated by the fact that I can't find a gas powered split-fire brand for under 3K. Having rented them a fair bit I feel like I'd be settling if I got a one way splitter weather it was 3 point or gas powered. I have found a 3 point split fire for around a grand. My brain can't get rid of the idea of mounting a gas motor/pump set up to it and running it that way. Motor/pumps can be found for around $350. I'd be into what I want for half the price of a stand alone unit.

 

[Dave M7040]

Newbie

As a Canadian engineer myself, I dont want to be seen as putting down the Splitfire product but there is no magic here.

Do you know about the push force of a hydraulic cylinder versus the pull force of a hydraulic cylinder. They are not the same!!!

The force the cylinder will produce while retracting is significantly less than the force when it extends.

The Split fire product, unless it has two hydraulic cylinders, which they don't mention, cannot provide the same splitting force on both of its strokes.

The area of the push rod of the cylinder takes away frolm the hydraulic force on the return stroke.

This illustration helps a little with the explanation.

Look at how Splitfire describes their cycle time, with two numbers such as 4-6 seconds.
That is telling you the volume of oil needed for one of the strokes is than the other stroke. The pull stroke, which has a lower force, also has a lower volume of oil needed to effect the stroke.
In my area, there are a lot of dead elm trees because of Dutch Elm disease. It is a gnarly, fibrous wood and you need all the power you can get to split it.
With the Splitfire, you would be waiting for the stroke with the most force to do the splitting.

If you want to see a fast cycle time look for the machines that use a big flywheel with a wedge mounted to the outside of the wheel. That style was around long before hydraulics became popular. i.e. When Cat D8 bulldozers used a winch to raise and lower their blades because hydraulics were rare.

Here are some youtube videos of very old and current models in action.

WORLDS FASTEST LOGSPLITTER - YouTube

How the DR Rapid Fire Log Splitter Works - YouTube

I will be interest in your thoughts after watching the two videos.

If you are really serious about splitting wood this video is of another Canadian made WOOD PROCESSOR.
Blacks Creek Wood Processor (1) - YouTube

Dave M7040

 

[Nevadblue]

Faced with such a decision, we went with the gas powered splitter, and I would do it again in a heartbeat. Tractor hauls log rounds, and pulls the trailer once it is filled with split wood.
The 35 ton gas splitter always starts easily, runs forever on a gallon of gas, and gets the job done no matter what gnarly stuff I throw at it. I wish it had a quicker return stroke- maybe a two stage sort of valuing? but otherwise a great tool. After years and cords, it leaks a bit of oil, but not enough to fuss about. If you don't already have a 3-point splitter, don't buy one! Lowe's sells the Dirty Hands brand, and I would check them out if in the market again.

(opps- I see you are in Ontario, so forget Lowes... Princess Auto sounds more likely!)

I learned pretty much the same thing. I have an 8 HP, 24 ton Harbor Freight splitter. It can run horizontally or vertically, but I always run it vertically. I have to use cottonwood, which can be very difficult to split. This monster will cut wood crosswise if needed. The tractor brings wood to the splitter and hauls it away. I sit on a log round and split wood. We are a good team.

 

[Dave M7040]

Faced with such a decision, we went with the gas powered splitter, and I would do it again in a heartbeat. Tractor hauls log rounds, and pulls the trailer once it is filled with split wood.
The 35 ton gas splitter always starts easily, runs forever on a gallon of gas, and gets the job done no matter what gnarly stuff I throw at it. I wish it had a quicker return stroke- maybe a two stage sort of valuing? but otherwise a great tool. After years and cords, it leaks a bit of oil, but not enough to fuss about. If you don't already have a 3-point splitter, don't buy one! Lowe's sells the Dirty Hands brand, and I would check them out if in the market again.

(opps- I see you are in Ontario, so forget Lowes... Princess Auto sounds more likely!)

We have a Lowes in Cornwall Ontario Canada: lowes.ca
so we are now in the big league

Dave M7040

 

[Newbie7100HST]

Hi Dave -
Not trying to be an A hole here but as for the first video, I would say that you are absolutely 100% entitled to impose what ever level of risk to your own person you choose.

Now not being an engineer and having only watched the 2nd video with the sound off (sleeping babies), my gut tells me when the inertial forces of the flywheel(s) not sufficient to split the log "instantly" the motor then has to work to both re-establish the speed of the flywheel and the force necessary to split the log. In other words, if the log doesn't split, the ram gets retracted, wait for the motor to get the wheel up to speed and try again.
If all I ever cut were logs that were easy to split I'd gladly just swing an axe.

I completely get the push/pull force theory illustrated based on the difference in cylinder volume. That said here are my real world observations having mowed through about 50 bush chord with a split fire:
1. A noticeable difference in in force between strokes has never been apparent to me
2. The output rate/cycle time (log split for every forward/backward stroke) is consistently higher than with conventional splitters
3. I didn't bother watching the 3rd video as I just watched my neighbour spend 5-6 eight hour days sitting in a tractor (Case) with forks on his bucket loading a brand new black creek processor while paying for the processor and the operator. With no bravado I can honestly say I'd have the same pile done in 7 days by myself with a chainsaw and a Split-fire. Yes with more aching joints and muscles but not with a $17,000 outlay for the processor and lord knows what for the tractor (Case DX45?)
D. Standing dead elm are my go to source for "need to burn tomorrow" logs in the dead of winter and the Split-Fire I normally rent does fine with them. Always brings a smile to my 89 year old father's face when he pulls the leaver and the knife literally slices through a gnarly block.
4. I've never checked if it has 2 cylinders and again, I'm not an engineer, and have no experience with hydraulic systems (I did however ace grade 9 science) and wonder if the vacuum force created by the draw on the side of the cylinder without the shaft in some way compensates and possibly accounts for my observations.


Thank you for presenting an alternative perspective and stimulating me to think about the physics behind the equipment I use.

 

[Dave M7040]

Newbie
I completely understand that, as the guy who is having to split the wood, the way a product feels to you when you use it is of the greatest importance. The rest is just fluff of little value.

If the Splitfire you use or buy has all the power you need, you will never notice the difference in splitting force on either stroke.

Where someone may get disappointed is, if they rent a bigger Splitfire product and then buy a smaller one because of the cost, then they may find it less than they thought they were buying because the return stroke power is less and may be less than they need.

I mention the other styles of splitters only because, as an engineer, I am fascinated by how the problem of splitting wood has been handled for centuries. With the technology of hydraulics, the options today are so much greater than our grandparents could ever have imagined when they were heating their homes.

I will be interested in your final decision and experience as time goes forward. This forum is a great community of people who have helped me learn so much and in a small way when I can, I try and pay it forward.

I notice you have a Belarus. Many years ago (before 1979) a friend and neighbor who had a farm equipment business began selling Belarus. Some were air cooled diesels. My friend had challenges with understanding the electrical systems which were different than he was used on Ford tractors and would call on me with my book learning to try and figure it out. They were strong tractors!

Dave