Can anybody share experiences laying fiber optic cable for data?

[KubotainNH]

Cost? Time? Effort?

The cost of the pre-term stiff is actually quite low. Time/effort- the physical work doesn't take much time especially seeing his trench will be in place, effort is minimal as long as you have the correct items. They are plug and play, no configuration to mess with. Use a site like listed earlier (lanshack) and they will walk you through what you need. Really all that is needed is preterm fiber and the 2 converters that the fiber ends plug into. It comes on a spool, hange it on a pipe and drag it into the trench. Takes 10 seconds to plug in each side then plug in the power, you'll have a working line. The outdoor stuff may not even need to be in a conduit but it's obviously safer. Once in the ground there's no interference from trees and such.

Loss of sanity, as you try and learn a whole (complex) industry for just one project.

Mind you, I live in this backwoods country (Canada) without the choices Americans enjoy, but I could not find an affordable pre-packaged, plug-n-play, say 500' fiber set up.

If that same site mentioned sells to CA then they can get you the items that work together.

That's my 2 cents, I know I've had 0 issues since installing mine a few years ago and no more blown up equipment.

BTW, the warranty on the $90 Unicom VELOCITY converter is lifetime.

 

[quicksandfarmer]

For 306 feet I wouldn't consider anything other than Cat 5e. You can buy a premade 100m cable for 40 bucks. Run it in plastic pipe and leave a pull string. If it's buried with a water pipe there isn't going to be any electrical interference, which is what really limits your distance. The biggest problem with cables is always at the ends, which is why I recommend premade. Leave a loop at each end to take the stress off the ends.

 

[newbury]

It's probably because us old timers (at least in the IT world) remember filing down fiber cables for hours to make them work correctly. And let me clarify my point, fiber is the best of the best, there's no question about it. But, in this case, I just don't see it as necessary and there are downsides (just like there are downsides to wireless setups). If I was in the OP's situation, I'd use wireless, but I'm comfortable with the technology and I'm not a fan of burying cable. Now, if I was more comfortable pulling cable, knew the land was nice and soft between me and the barn and had a good ripper with a cable layer or vibratory plow? Heck yeah, I'd be pulling the fiber. Just not my situation, pulling stuff through the land is hard for me, and, there's a lot of worked land between me and my pole barn giving me plenty of chances to try and cut the cable that I pull. Therefore, I use wireless.

I think I mentioned my Father worked at IBM (Burlington) when they were first introducing fiber back in I think the early 1970's. He was a top end machinist and helped develop a cutter/grinder so they could do the ends. As I remember it took them months to make progress. He'd come home complaining about trying to polish itty-bitty glass fibers.

And as I mentioned the ditch is going in whether I put fiber in it or not, so that's saves about $1,000 off a more normal project.

Cost? Time? Effort?

Cost differences between wireless, RG 6, fiber seem minimal, especially if I put it on a per Mbps basis. Matter of fact now I'm thinking of going with either 4 strand or 6 strand multimode fiber rated indoor/outdoor. They cost nearly the same, and some places don't even offer 2 strand. Prices for the same spec cable are all over the place. Some are charging like it's the 1990's, seems their attitude is "It's fiber for business and just a cost you can pass on to your customer".
And I'd hate to get down the line and start kicking myself for not putting in enough strands. I've been wanting to run some video cams off the back of the sheds for monitoring some deer "plots". I also used to be in mapping and would like to start doing that again, which requires transfer of LARGE files.

Loss of sanity, as you try and learn a whole (complex) industry for just one project.

Mind you, I live in this backwoods country (Canada) without the choices Americans enjoy, but I could not find an affordable pre-packaged, plug-n-play, say 500' fiber set up.

Actually maintaining sanity. It's cool out, snowing, long nights. Also relearning old skills and adding new knowledge. They do seem to have gotten it down to plug-n-play for fresh setups and the cost of the fiber is almost minimal for additional distance.

And as I was composing this my home wireless locked up again, reminding me why I prefer a hardline. 10base5 is too slow. 10baseT too short.

I sure appreciate all the help people.

Oh, and if I go with 1.25 poly and a 6 strand indoor/outdoor cable for the run any idea of the difficulty to pull another similar sized cable 5 years later?

 

[JimRB]

I always had the main thought that extra fibers were a safety net for one going or being bad, not so much for more connections. You can run animal cams over ethernet, I would think.

The problem with adding anything to an existing filled conduit is the friction of the new pull twisting and wrapping around the existing. My limited experience is that pulling three cables at once is a whole lot easier than pulling one then adding another.

 

[newbury]

For 306 feet I wouldn't consider anything other than Cat 5e. You can buy a premade 100m cable for 40 bucks. Run it in plastic pipe and leave a pull string. If it's buried with a water pipe there isn't going to be any electrical interference, which is what really limits your distance. The biggest problem with cables is always at the ends, which is why I recommend premade. Leave a loop at each end to take the stress off the ends.

Like I thought I wrote, that 306 feet is google earth distance from the corner of my house to the corner of my sheds along the planned trench. But I want to run it to the back of the far building where I've an apartment and plan on an office, that's about another 100 feet. I know I could put a switch in at the 306 foot place but at the present I'm planning on the back corner of the big building.

And as far as making cable ends for Cat Cable, unless things have changed a lot in the last 6 years since I retired that was always a piece of cake if I had a magnifying lamp, quality connectors with a load bar and a good crimper. But fiber - NO WAY.

My biggest problem with cable was when we strung it between shelters and someone would trip over it.

 

[Tractor Seabee]

This thread has evolved into a lot of technical issues with fiber and the equipment that is outside my expertise. I do know about a lot about preparing the infrastructure to install the fiber into from point X to point Y. Designed, specified, and performed QA for such installs. Remember fiber is glass so is easily damaged in handling, never kink or make short bends while handling. For underground: 1. Always install in some type raceway; you will cuss a bunch if you get it covered and it doesn't work. If non metallic, install a tracer wire and warning tape in the ditch. 2. Any pull over 100' needs to have a pull box at least every 100' to reduce pulling strain and just plain easier all around. 3. Pulls up to 100' use a minimum of 1" raceway (interior work; not less than 1") and long sweeps for direction change or use a pull box that location if close to the 100', follow the directions packed with the cable to the T.. 4. Use plenty of "veener slickum" as friction is your worst enemy and fiber bundles are not slick in themselves. 5. Runs longer than 100', up the raceway size to 2"; you will praise this before you are done. The pipe is cheap compared to the fiber, actually DWV PVC is suitable except for under roads and etc. If you can afford the fiber and the translating equipment you can well afford the raceway. Concrete encase under roads if shallower than 2'.

Have a good project with perfect results,

Ron

 

[dragoneggs]

This thread has evolved into a lot of technical issues with fiber and the equipment that is outside my expertise. I do know about a lot about preparing the infrastructure to install the fiber into from point X to point Y. Designed, specified, and performed QA for such installs. Remember fiber is glass so is easily damaged in handling, never kink or make short bends while handling. For underground: 1. Always install in some type raceway; you will cuss a bunch if you get it covered and it doesn't work. If non metallic, install a tracer wire and warning tape in the ditch. 2. Any pull over 100' needs to have a pull box at least every 100' to reduce pulling strain and just plain easier all around. 3. Pulls up to 100' use a minimum of 1" raceway (interior work; not less than 1") and long sweeps for direction change or use a pull box that location if close to the 100', follow the directions packed with the cable to the T.. 4. Use plenty of "veener slickum" as friction is your worst enemy and fiber bundles are not slick in themselves. 5. Runs longer than 100', up the raceway size to 2"; you will praise this before you are done. The pipe is cheap compared to the fiber, actually DWV PVC is suitable except for under roads and etc. If you can afford the fiber and the translating equipment you can well afford the raceway. Concrete encase under roads if shallower than 2'.

Have a good project with perfect results,

Ron

Good to hear from you, Ron! Happy New Year!

 

[dmccarty]

Tractor Seabee touched on what I was thinking.

When we were building the house, we had a trench from the house to the well house. The trench had the water supply pipe, power to the well pump, and wire for future power extension to the barn.

Our soil is rocky so I had some sand delivered and I buried the power lines and water pipe with that sand. Then I back filled with the native soil. The sand is to protect the pipe and cables AND warn that one is getting close to said pipe and cables. Our soil is all clay and rock so to see sand should be a clue. :laughing::laughing::laughing: At some depth, I buried bright flagging as another indicator that one was getting to something important if one was digging.

If the conduit is cheap enough, it might be a good idea to put down a spare conduit for future use.

Later,
Dan

 

[newbury]

That's why I started this thread - good info.

This thread has evolved into a lot of technical issues with fiber and the equipment that is outside my expertise. I do know about a lot about preparing the infrastructure to install the fiber into from point X to point Y. Designed, specified, and performed QA for such installs. Remember fiber is glass so is easily damaged in handling, never kink or make short bends while handling.

So let me parse your statement and add comments

For underground: 1. Always install in some type raceway; you will cuss a bunch if you get it covered and it doesn't work. If non metallic, install a tracer wire and warning tape in the ditch.

Hadn't thought about warning tape

2. Any pull over 100' needs to have a pull box at least every 100' to reduce pulling strain and just plain easier all around.

I was tentatively thinking of two primary sections: 1 section from the house to about the slope up to the driveway, about 150 feet. Then 1 section under the driveway for about 75 feet going into a 90 degree turn of an appropriate radius and then about another 75 feet up to the corner of the first shop, so I was thinking the second section would be about 150'.

As I wrote previously I'll probably be doing this by myself or with relative help. I planned to lay out the pipe cut into subsections small enough to easily pull through, with them either on the ground or in the ditch, then put the subsections together get them in the ditch and carefully cover.
Will I still need a pull box every 100 feet? Could I get by with one at about the half way point, beside the driveway?
How long a section do you think I could pull ? The cable weighs 64 lbs/km. I'm planning on pulling about a tenth of that, so say 10 lbs max.

3. Pulls up to 100' use a minimum of 1" raceway (interior work; not less than 1") and long sweeps for direction change or use a pull box that location if close to the 100', follow the directions packed with the cable to the T..

I planning on using a 1.25" ID poly pipe, and planned on a gradual sweep.

4. Use plenty of "veener slickum" as friction is your worst enemy and fiber bundles are not slick in themselves.

any recommendations for slickum?

5. Runs longer than 100', up the raceway size to 2"; you will praise this before you are done. The pipe is cheap compared to the fiber, actually DWV PVC is suitable except for under roads and etc. If you can afford the fiber and the translating equipment you can well afford the raceway. Concrete encase under roads if shallower than 2'.

I wouldn't call the pipe "cheap" compared to fiber. One place DLW has 450' of

Preterminated fiber optic cable - 6 fiber indoor/outdoor MM 62.5/125 cable terminated with LC connectors

for $247.50 (plus $170 for termination). The translators look like about $100@. The pipe at HD - 1-1/4 in. x 300 ft. IPS 100 PSI UTY Poly Pipe is $174 for the 300 feet. For 2" 80 PSI, 300 ft it would be $404. The labor is free (me) and the ditch is for another project.

Have a good project with perfect results,

Ron

Thanks for the pointers!

 

[kcflhrc]

Interesting. Do you have a link to the exact product?
I found Corning - 434401EB1H20400FP - 400' OptiTapｮ Single-Fiber SST-Drop Single-Tube for $135 and an OptiTap to SC APC connector for $52 (I would need 2).
How easy is it to pull? I was anticipating buying a roll of 1.25 black poly and cutting it into "manageable" lengths, adding a connector, pulling the fiber through the length, add another length, etc. I'd plan on running about 130' above ground through or on the outside of buildings.

So many options

Yes, I use Corning in various lengths. From 75' to 300' All of ours comes coiled in a box and the longest we use is 300 foot. Our pedestals are positioned to where no drop is more than 300'. I just pull it out of the bos and uncoil it across the ground.

 

[hawkeye08]

If possible, hook it up and test before unrolling.

 

[Tractor Seabee]

That's why I started this thread - good info.


So let me parse your statement and add comments

Hadn't thought about warning tape

I was tentatively thinking of two primary sections: 1 section from the house to about the slope up to the driveway, about 150 feet. Then 1 section under the driveway for about 75 feet going into a 90 degree turn of an appropriate radius and then about another 75 feet up to the corner of the first shop, so I was thinking the second section would be about 150'. The 100' rule is based on the common max fish tape length of 125'. Never seen one longer. most long underground runs usually have a pull string installed as the pipe is assembled unless in a long roll. The the fish tape is pulled in with that. You could even install the cable that way and save a step, but the cable is vulnerable somewhat.

As I wrote previously I'll probably be doing this by myself or with relative help. I planned to lay out the pipe cut into subsections small enough to easily pull through, with them either on the ground or in the ditch, then put the subsections together get them in the ditch and carefully cover.
Will I still need a pull box every 100 feet? Could I get by with one at about the half way point, beside the driveway?
How long a section do you think I could pull ? The cable weighs 64 lbs/km. I'm planning on pulling about a tenth of that, so say 10 lbs max. KEEP the dirt out of it. You will be surprised how heavy that 10#s gets when you add friction, especially around bends. As you are using ready made ends; those connectors will add a lot of friction and tend to snag on coupling edges. Why fight it, put the pull boxes (hand holes) in to reduce the frustration factor.

I planning on using a 1.25" ID poly pipe, and planned on a gradual sweep. What about those ready made ends? How much larger will the gob you are pulling through get? On commercial jobs we always always used 2" from the street (manhole or pole) to inside the building for insurance.
any recommendations for slickum? It is what electricians call the wire pulling compound they use. It is a soap/glycerin compound. The expensive variety is called KY Jelly)
I wouldn't call the pipe "cheap" compared to fiber. One place DLW has 450' of for $247.50 (plus $170 for termination). The translators look like about $100@. The pipe at HD - 1-1/4 in. x 300 ft. IPS 100 PSI UTY Poly Pipe is $174 for the 300 feet. For 2" 80 PSI, 300 ft it would be $404. The labor is free (me) and the ditch is for another project. Boy fiber has sure come down in price in the last 10 years. 2" DWV PVC 20' length water pipe is $1/FT at Lowes. The cable does not care about the value of the pipe, only the protection it gives. Yeah on Gov jobs we specified some pretty expensive stuff with no value added.
One more thing, plug the raceway with "Pug Duct Seal" when done to keep bugs and mice out of the pipe. Mice will go along way and tend to chew stuff up as they go. Lowes has it.
Thanks for the pointers!

LOL, Ron

LOL Ron

 

[newbury]

<snip> The 100' rule is based on the common max fish tape length of 125'. Never seen one longer. most long underground runs usually have a pull string installed as the pipe is assembled unless in a long roll. The the fish tape is pulled in with that. You could even install the cable that way and save a step, but the cable is vulnerable somewhat.

I was planning on the old "vacuum/plastic bag/string trick" (/edit - note the guy tried 3 times and I was LFMAO) Looking at a number of SUCCESSFUL videos it appears that pulling the string, a"fish line", then the cable 150' should be relatively easy. Few of the vids used lube. For the "fish tape" I was planning on using a saltwater fishing reel w/ real Heavy Duty line, or some 1/4 inch nylon rope so length is not very important.

<snip> KEEP the dirt out of it. You will be surprised how heavy that 10#s gets when you add friction, especially around bends. As you are using ready made ends; those connectors will add a lot of friction and tend to snag on coupling edges. Why fight it, put the pull boxes (hand holes) in to reduce the frustration factor.

I'm only"fighting" putting pull boxes at 100 foot intervals. I'll probably put one in about the middle where it will be out of the way of mowing and traffic
I've only one bend and I was planning on laying it straight, pulling, then bending it when I placed it in the trench. If the 150' section from the building to the "breakout box" is all 1 piece there won't be any coupling edges, if it's 2 piece only one joint.

<snip>What about those ready made ends? How much larger will the gob you are pulling through get? On commercial jobs we always always used 2" from the street (manhole or pole) to inside the building for insurance.
any recommendations for slickum? It is what electricians call the wire pulling compound they use. It is a soap/glycerin compound. The expensive variety is called KY Jelly)

The max diameter of the "pulling basket" if I go 6 strand will be 3/4". The Pull Eyes (pulling baskets) are made from Super strong polyethylene mesh and feature a free-spinning buckle to eliminate twisting, thus it reads like they should slide easily.

<snip>
One more thing, plug the raceway with "Pug Duct Seal" when done to keep bugs and mice out of the pipe. Mice will go along way and tend to chew stuff up as they go. Lowes has it.

Thanks, another good suggestion.

/edit - Darn, I was looking at the price of fusion splicers to terminate Fiber and found on Alibaba the ILSINTECH SWIFT KF4A Splice-On Fusion Splicer for < $2,000, and I found it in the States for $7,500. That's a big diff in price. My Dad would probably have bought one!
/edit 3 - in the firt vid I reference the guy only tried 2 times, not 3

 

[TemporaryKubotaOwnerMark]

For the "fish tape" I was planning on using a saltwater fishing reel w/ real Heavy Duty line, or some 1/4 inch nylon rope so length is not very important.

I have found the braided poly is very effective, and cheaper than the nylon. It's also very slick, reducing the friction.

Shop Lehigh 1/4-in x 1-ft Yellow Braided Polypropylene Rope at Lowes.com

 

[lennyzx11]

I definitely agree with

I too remember my first computer, a Radio Shack TRS80 with a cassette tape back up drive and a 5.5in optional floppy! Experience tells me now to buy the best you can't afford. :laughing:

Off the subject. My first one. I had a Radio Shack Color Computer 2. I remember to this day paying 500 bucks plus for the optional 5 1/4 floppy and the 10 Megabyte external drive.
Yesterday, I picked up a "throwaway" tablet brand new for less than 100 bucks just because.

 

[newbury]

I have found the braided poly is very effective, and cheaper than the nylon. It's also very slick, reducing the friction.

Shop Lehigh 1/4-in x 1-ft Yellow Braided Polypropylene Rope at Lowes.com

Yes that may be cheaper but since I got my place in Mississippi I've started buying the BIG roles of rope and twine. I've almost gone through a 300 foot roll of 1/2 inch and maybe 150' of a 600' roll of 1/4 inch. So I've got a little on hand Remember - Sam Gamgees Grandfather told him to always bring rope. That and a sharp knife has gotten me through many a situation where others have been unable to accomplish the task.

Off the subject. My first one. I had a Radio Shack Color Computer 2. I remember to this day paying 500 bucks plus for the optional 5 1/4 floppy and the 10 Megabyte external drive.
Yesterday, I picked up a "throwaway" tablet brand new for less than 100 bucks just because.

WOW!! I'm jealous! I had to operate with a cassette recorder until I bought my first Intel based computer, a PC-Limited 286 with floppies, a hard drive came later.

Back then it would have taken a long time for me to generate enough data to use a gigabyte network for a few seconds

 

[Tractor Seabee]

Newbury, you seem to be someone that believes in pre-planning your work. Here are 3 web sites relating to what your are contemplating. They will lead you into a lot more info plus there are many U-Tube videos on the web. Be careful with the how to videos as a lot of them are by novices that may provide bad info. I would stay with the experts on those 3 sites.http://www.polywater.com/commcabl.html [url=http://ecmweb.com/content/setting-your-fiber-optic-cable-pull]Setting Up For Your Fiber-Optic Cable Pull http://www.thefoa.org/tech/ref/OSP/install.html[/URL] The FOA Reference For Fiber Optics - Fiber Optic Installation

Ron

 

[newbury]

Newbury, you seem to be someone that believes in pre-planning your work. Here are 3 web sites relating to what your are contemplating. They will lead you into a lot more info plus there are many U-Tube videos on the web. Be careful with the how to videos as a lot of them are by novices that may provide bad info. I would stay with the experts on those 3 sites.http://www.polywater.com/commcabl.html [url=http://ecmweb.com/content/setting-your-fiber-optic-cable-pull]Setting Up For Your Fiber-Optic Cable Pull http://www.thefoa.org/tech/ref/OSP/install.html[/URL] The FOA Reference For Fiber Optics - Fiber Optic Installation

Ron

Yes, as I wrote it's cool and wet outside. I'd rather spend time planning.

And thanks for the links, I'd read/rather watch them than SWMBO's cooking shows.

Did any of you watch the link I posted earlier vaccuming a string through a pipe - YouTube ? It sort of shows what NOT to do when sucking a line through a tube.

 

[Industrial Toys]

I blew a mouse and strong string through five hundred feet of 5/8" thin wall plastic tubing as an extra measure of protection for my coax. To my amazement it actually worked and then pulled in the coax, out in the open. Actually, I lie. Thinking back, I did it in two pieces, but was still amazed.

 

[KubotainNH]

I've done the vac thing myself at home on a close to a 100' run, it was easy. I've seen cable vendors do much longer distances. Sometimes they need a pusher vac too to get it moving. I don't recall exactly how they fed the string in on the blow in side though.