reverse rotaton pump mount

[muddstopper]

Tranny had a pto, thats where the problem begin. Someone removed the pto and didnt replace the coverplate. Fellow bought the truck not knowing the cover plate was off or that tranny didnt have any oil and then drove the truck. Tranny is toast. I have known about this truck for a couple of years, The buyer sold the truck to another guy and he let it set for a couple of years until I bought it last week. We had been haggeling on price for quite a while and I kind of out waited him.

 

[bigdeano]

Usually the only difference between a CW and CCW pump is a little hole that connects the shaft seal pocket to the suction port so the seal isn't pressurized. You could probably plug the hole that's there and drill a new one. Maybe you've already looked at it. Would sure save a lot of hassle.

 

[muddstopper]

Bigdean, I havent had the pump apart. The guy I got the pump from did take it apart and he said it couldnt be changed, without replacing some parts inside. Cost for those parts are almost as much as a whole pump. I'll take his word for it as I know his hyd background in build and designing hyd equipment for a very large equipment manufactoring company. I could contact him and see just what it is inside this pump that would have to be changed, but I pretty much believed him the first time.

I know having to build mounts to reverse this pump will be a pain in the rear, but I dont think its going to be all that hard, just takes some metal and some time.

 

[CJONE]

You cannot get enough HP from a manual trans pto opening. It will only handle 40-50hp before destroying itself. You would need a 8 bolt pto for this. Yes a belt drive will work BUT you will side load the crank big time. I have never done this with a 7.3 so I can't say it wouldn't work but I doubt very highly that it was ever intended for that kind of load. If this engine if fly by wire, you cannot use a throttle stop like you can with a mechanical injected engine. If you pull more than 20-30 hp out of the engine it will drop RPMs bad. If you set the throttle stop under load it will rev almost to the governor when the load is lifted. Tried this a couple of times. Ended up going with a electrical PTO control that Ford supplies. If the engine was out of a International truck I have done the throttle stop and it worked, don't know why but it is different. I can't remember if you needed to drive off the back I can give you a number to my supplier who builds me the engine drive mounts for the powerunits we build for the oilfields. If it is off the front you would have to build it and use a coupler.
Edit. Just reread the first post. You could build a skid and pump/engine mount with a coupler and be out your time and $150 for the coupler. Another option for you is to buy the exact pump you need with the separate circuits for the processor with a engine drive plate. Done a few of them. CJ

 

[CJONE]

Usually the only difference between a CW and CCW pump is a little hole that connects the shaft seal pocket to the suction port so the seal isn't pressurized. You could probably plug the hole that's there and drill a new one. Maybe you've already looked at it. Would sure save a lot of hassle.

There are quite a few larger gear pumps that are set up as single direction. All of the multi circuit pumps that I have purchased or replaced are single direction units. CJ

 

[muddstopper]

You cannot get enough HP from a manual trans pto opening. It will only handle 40-50hp before destroying itself. You would need a 8 bolt pto for this. Yes a belt drive will work BUT you will side load the crank big time. I have never done this with a 7.3 so I can't say it wouldn't work but I doubt very highly that it was ever intended for that kind of load. If this engine if fly by wire, you cannot use a throttle stop like you can with a mechanical injected engine. If you pull more than 20-30 hp out of the engine it will drop RPMs bad. If you set the throttle stop under load it will rev almost to the governor when the load is lifted. Tried this a couple of times. Ended up going with a electrical PTO control that Ford supplies. If the engine was out of a International truck I have done the throttle stop and it worked, don't know why but it is different. I can't remember if you needed to drive off the back I can give you a number to my supplier who builds me the engine drive mounts for the powerunits we build for the oilfields. If it is off the front you would have to build it and use a coupler.
Edit. Just reread the first post. You could build a skid and pump/engine mount with a coupler and be out your time and $150 for the coupler. Another option for you is to buy the exact pump you need with the separate circuits for the processor with a engine drive plate. Done a few of them. CJ

My engine is out of a old international, 87 or 89 model, pre turbo. No fancy electronics on it. I'll try to explain how I plan to mount the pump via jack shaft. I plan on using the bellhousing and making a stub shaft that bolts directly to the crank. I will machine a bearing mount to run the shaft thru the bellhousing tranny hole. the shaft will then be supported by a bearing where it comes out of the bellhousing. On this shaft, I would mount the pulley to drive the pump. There would be no sideloading on the crank at all. I plan on another jack shaft to pull the pump since I have to mount the pump in reverse. A pulley will be placed in the middle of this jackshaft and the shaft would be supported on each end with a pillowblock bearings. With this method, I could mount a pump on each end of the shaft, one with CW and one CCW. This would provide all the oil of the splitter saw circuts and the smaller pump for the conveyor and knuckle boom loader. My big concern is total mass. A 7.3 is a pretty big size engine, physical dimensions, Hanging a couple of pumps at the rear and off to the side is going to make it that much bulkier. Also if belts do break, it going to mean removing the pumps and unbolting bearings just to change a belt. Only advantage doing it this way would be the pumps would be out where you can get to the plumbing. I have a plan for a timing belt pulley drive that fits a 1.5in shaft. The belt is about 2in wide. Its a Goodyear belt, but I dont know the hp rateing on it yet. I have used them to drive large reels, but until I get the specs on the belt, I dont know if it will work for my application.

 

[CJONE]

My engine is out of a old international, 87 or 89 model, pre turbo. No fancy electronics on it. I'll try to explain how I plan to mount the pump via jack shaft. I plan on using the bellhousing and making a stub shaft that bolts directly to the crank. I will machine a bearing mount to run the shaft thru the bellhousing tranny hole. the shaft will then be supported by a bearing where it comes out of the bellhousing. On this shaft, I would mount the pulley to drive the pump. There would be no sideloading on the crank at all. I plan on another jack shaft to pull the pump since I have to mount the pump in reverse. A pulley will be placed in the middle of this jackshaft and the shaft would be supported on each end with a pillowblock bearings. With this method, I could mount a pump on each end of the shaft, one with CW and one CCW. This would provide all the oil of the splitter saw circuts and the smaller pump for the conveyor and knuckle boom loader. My big concern is total mass. A 7.3 is a pretty big size engine, physical dimensions, Hanging a couple of pumps at the rear and off to the side is going to make it that much bulkier. Also if belts do break, it going to mean removing the pumps and unbolting bearings just to change a belt. Only advantage doing it this way would be the pumps would be out where you can get to the plumbing. I have a plan for a timing belt pulley drive that fits a 1.5in shaft. The belt is about 2in wide. Its a Goodyear belt, but I dont know the hp rateing on it yet. I have used them to drive large reels, but until I get the specs on the belt, I dont know if it will work for my application.

Yep, I understand what you are doing. The pully size has a lot to do with the load they can transmit. The bigger the pully dia the more it can transmit. A cogged belts are a lot better with HP than a standard. I don't have any charts for them so I cant help you there. CJ

 

[cbailey1956]

Hello. You might look for a old fire truck pump drive. I stripped the tank and pump off an 82 ford c800. The engine drives a frame mounted PTO that disconnects the rear output shaft and drives a shaft out the side which has a front and rear facing shaft. The unit drives a 1500 gpm water pump so it is sturdy enough for the hp rating you want to run. You could run all ins and outs with stub shafts. This is a stand alone drive independent of the trans. Very heavy duty and reliable. Also would allow no load engine operation for start up.

 

[muddstopper]

Not sure what kind of drive you are talking about, but either way, the transmission in this truck is toast so anything that needs to attach to a tranny to work, wont help me. I think my current plan is valid and unless someone can say why it wouldnt work, its the plan I will stick with. I will readly admit my plan isnt perfect, but without spending a ton of money on a sunstrand type of pump drive system to drive two pumps like I need to drive, It is something I think I can live with. If it ever quits raining, I plan on going and getting the truck and pulling the parts I need and scrapping the rest.