Hourly vs Salary?

[ultrarunner]

I'm overwhelmed by all of the great advice which helps to formulate a plan if only in my head.

At 57 and no company retirement, frozen over 10 years ago, not sure I would be out looking to hire on.

Thankfully, I have kept a small portfolio of rentals which are now all paid for... so it is not a question of putting food on the table... my needs are really very modest.

Part of sticking with the program has been my desire to settle down at a forever property... someplace in the county with rooms for my tractors and cars.

One thing I learned is getting any kind of mortgage is heavily weighted on earned income... no job or no solid pension like my LEO friends makes a huge difference as rental income is so heavily discounted it rarely amounts to much.

A lot of TBN members like Curly Dave are living their dream which is one of the reasons TBN is inspiring... plans that become reality.

No one is indispensable but the loss of a key personnel can have very long lasting affect when all of a sudden the jobs still need to be done but who is going to do them.

Part of what I find prevalent in management is often the time it takes to bring someone in, supervise, etc... the job could have been done... plus more expensive because now there is the added overhead of a manager added to the cost.

Last year we brought in a new Laser for surgery... it required a dedicated 70 amp circuit that none of the Operating rooms have... the Doctor came to me at 3:30 in the afternoon and said it would mean a lot to make it happen... working most of the night I laid all the conduit, pulled the wire with my retired neighbor... the new circuit was in and ready overnight.

The big guys simply cannot move that fast... it would start with RFP and 6 weeks later might get done.

I'm a believer in Time and Materials for my best vendors... and never once have we not come out ahead... we share the risk and the reward...

Before I was recruited for this job, I ran my own full service Property Management company full time and something I could expand on.

What a lot in the corporate world forget is business is built on relationships... having committed people willing to step up when needed.

 

[ultrarunner]

It reads like you had a great 27 years, but a storm is coming. Perhaps you should find a job that can use your experience. Contact other small hospitals. Your main problem may be keeping your resume succinct. Maximize your rental properties, take care of your Mom, surf TBN.

I had a great 10 years followed by the facility being spun off as a stand alone with lots of cutbacks for the next 10 years followed by about 7 years where I basically ran my own show... with the OR Medical Staff Director and the Business Director... no onsite management and we made it even when I was told the business was no longer viable back in 2010... always paid our bills, met payroll, had a small contingency fund and passed accreditation and medicare plus all the state and local inspections with flying colors...

Two of the major physician partners have decided we have a viable business model and this would be a good time to cash out by being sold to one of the majors.

 

[MossRoad]

....

One requirement in bold is that I must be available to respond to the Hospital 24/365 days per year unless on approved PTO or approved sick leave.

...

You better start looking at California labor laws.

If you are truly hourly, they most likely have to compensate you for on-call and they also most likely have to pay you a minimum amount of hours for coming in. Don't know about travel time. There should also be some written policy as to how long you have to respond to their call and what your response time has to be.

For example (and this only applies to my situation), when I am on-call, it is on our work schedule that I am on call for said day. I get paid $50 for every day that I am on call, weather I'm called in or not. If I am called, I have 30 minutes to respond to the call by phone/text or in-person. I also have to be within 30 minutes of the plant. If I can fix it over the phone in short order, that's that. If I decide I have to go in to fix it, I'm on the clock NOW. I punch in over the phone and leave for work. I arrive, fix the problem, and I punch out as I leave the building. If I get called in again the same day, I punch in again, etc... We don't have a minimum amount of time that I get paid for, but the $50 for the day is pretty nice. I rotate on-call with several other folks so that I get time off with family. However, its understood that at any given time, even when I'm NOT on call, they can call me if there's something I have unique expertise in and I'll be happy to help them. But they can't tell me to come in off the boat on my day off when I'm not on call. And they don't do that anyway, so its not a problem.

Again, I say you best look into California labor laws.

A long time ago, a supervisor and the HR director took me off salary and put me on hourly, but exempt from overtime. They can legally do that if you have unique skills (such as I.T.). But what they neglected to notice on the next page of the law is that at the time, they would have had to pay me 4X minimum wage. At that time it would have been $26 per hour and I was making under $8.... I showed them that part of the law and told them my labor lawyer showed it to me (he did), and I was put back on salary and got a large compensation check and an apology shortly after. :laughing:

Thrice I say to you... you best look into California labor laws.

 

[MossRoad]

https://www.dir.ca.gov/dlse/CallBackAndStandbyTime.pdf

 

[MossRoad]

Reporting time pay vs. waiting time and on-call time - California Restaurant Association

Read this very carefully... There's rules and then there's California rules. It appears to be all about the agreement you sign.

Again, find the exact California laws, read them and understand them before you sign any agreement with your employer.

 

[MossRoad]

https://www.shrm.org/resourcesandto...ornia-oncall-standby-time-and-pay-policy.aspx

 

[ultrarunner]

Good advice because are new HR person was not able to answer any of these questions... she has never had that come up as most of the facilities are covered by Union Contract and mine is not...

In the absence of a labor agreement they really need to know Federal and State rules...

The guys at the Union sister facilities are all under collective bargaining... doubt they are going to let the union in for one person... as it would be different than the nurses or service employees.

It strikes me as odd that most of their facilities are Union but not all...

 

[California]

Thankfully, I have kept a small portfolio of rentals which are now all paid for... so it is not a question of putting food on the table... my needs are really very modest.

The first part caught my eye. In my 30's I got tired of life as a union Carpenter and contractor. I went back to school and earned an MBA. As we got into the Finance part of the coursework and I started writing analysis papers my eyes were opened. I realized my little empire of nine rentals I had accumulated cheap as fixer-uppers that I had made respectable, were now worth more to me if I sold them and carried the financing. The appreciation in sale price I had created with my renovation was an untapped and under-earning asset. Today 'house-flipping' is the modern strategy related to this.

The cash down I received on my first sale paid the 20% down payment on the nice home we had always dreamed of while the monthly mortgage payments we received carried more than half the payment on the home. Sale of the duplex we had lived in provided another chunk of cash that started our mutual-fund investments, the core for our retirement savings 20 years later. (along with adding to this by maximizing Deferred Compensation and IRA's during our working years).

Yes it's possible - or was for our generation - to go from needing a lean first year to accumulate our first $1000 savings to funding financial independence before we were too old to enjoy it. I don't think most people realize how valuable real estate and especially compound interest (on the receiving side) are for attaining financial independence.

Ultrarunner, run the numbers. You might discover selling into the extreme price appreciation that exists in Oakland today and carrying the notes would greatly exceed any wage income.

 

[LD1]

Every job I have had, all hourly and some union, some non.....all had call-in pay minimums for skilled trade jobs. Which is what I am. And some states do have laws. But how the company treats call in pay is not always right, and its usually up to the employees to force their hand. After all, they dont want to pay you any more than necessary.

IE: they call you in and you go out of your way, cancel all your plans, and go bail their @$$es out. Takes you 30 minutes to do so. If they have a 4 hour call pay minimum.....they have the option to find an additional 3.5 hours of work for you to do. If YOU decide to leave after the 30 minutes, they consider it voluntary and think they are not obligated to pay you anything more than the 30 minutes.

Now I cannot speak for a hospital environment, but the solution to this in an industrial sector......the handful of skilled trade employees (maintenance / electricians), have to stand together. If you get called in, save their butts in 30 minutes, and they force you to decide to stay to get full 4 hours call in pay, or voluntarily leave and not get paid.......well.......next time you dont answer your phone. And with everyone in the department on the same page, they get the idea real quick when they have production lines sitting idle all night because they refused to do what was right.

 

[Egon]

There were good points made by Moss. Look into them as well as getting proper legal advice. At age 57 and being on salary they may be able to do some good things for you.

From the sounds of what is happening your next supervisor may not even be on site but look after a number of buildings.

Proper knowledgeable advice on your situation and location would be advisable.

 

[California]

There were good points made by Moss. Look into them as well as getting proper legal advice. At age 57 and being on salary they may be able to do some good things for you.

From the sounds of what is happening your next supervisor may not even be on site but look after a number of buildings.

Proper knowledgeable advice on your situation and location would be advisable.

Ultrarunner, maybe the union for your nearest union hospital could direct you to a local labor attorney for pertinent advice. Or the union at this new firm's other facilities might be helpful in locating advice if the facilities are in California.

I think this goes way beyond timecard issues. You might try to get your position retitled something like VP for facilities management to preserve the breadth you have now.

 

[hawkeye08]

Years ago, we had an employee that took every advantage of the labor laws. His eventual downfall was when he claimed big overtime for working a 16 hr shift, then slept the next day and did not take time off. He expected to be paid for both the overtime and comp time (comp time was illegal at that time in our state). The company tightened the overtime rules and made it a mess. I will say though, when they played hardball with the honest folks, there were far fewer "phone fixes" and many more call outs that only took a few minutes to resolve (and get paid 4 hrs).

Ultra, you are in a good position, you can ask questions about all this without any worries about why, if you are salary now and moving to hourly, it is fair to ask how things work, you want to be able to properly complete your timecard, etc.

 

[jerrybob]

You're a smart guy......you have done well. Go enjoy life and drive your tractor. Screw the corp. life. You are 57.......you could die tomorrow....next week....next year.....who knows??? I hope you live a very long life.....go enjoy it.

 

[lennyzx11]

Having worked both ways and having managed hourly employees for the last 15 years, a lot will depend on how the company runs the budget.

You need to look up the pay/OT rules for your specific geographic location. For example, in Texas, OT (time & half) only kicks in when you work more than 40 hours within the company defined 7 day pay period (so you could work 20 hours 1 day, 20 hours the next and it would all be at straight time) and you never are eligible for double time and there are no special pay for working Federal or state holidays. In other locations, OT happens when you hit 8 hours in a given day and double time kicks in after 12 hours in a day or 60 hours in a week.

One of two things will happen:

1. You will be told do your 40 hours in week (around a standard schedule) and then go home. What gets done, gets done. What doesn't get done, doesn't get done.

2. You will be done to keep going on like you have been and let the chips fall where they may.

This is verbatim for what I wanted to say.
I worked hourly then worked on a retainer for 40 hours at a reduced rate(65%).

The absolute best deal I have so far is 40 hour salary no matter what plus what overtime I work. Norm is 60 a week when working.

I'm home 6 days every six weeks normally but have an open vacation policy.

I average working 280 days a year.

My buddy took straight salary at 20% more gross annual for same job and my gross has been 35% higher last 3 years vs my flat 40 plus overtime( which is same rate. No time and a half)
Lenny

 

[ultrarunner]

You're a smart guy......you have done well. Go enjoy life and drive your tractor. Screw the corp. life. You are 57.......you could die tomorrow....next week....next year.....who knows??? I hope you live a very long life.....go enjoy it.

The men in the family tend to kick off at age 73 and on the job... it has been this way for my Grandfather, Dad, Uncles and Dad's cousin... Mom's side, the farming side never really retire either but it is different and the men go in their 90's fairly fit... Dad's side it's always leukemia... I seem to be losing a good friend every couple of months and many are in their 60's and 70's.

 

[ultrarunner]

Around 5 pm as I was wrapping things up at work after just picking up after a homeless camp that spills over to hospital property and getting ready to take Mom Christmas shopping for the grandkids an alarm on the Tissue Bank went off... not good.

We store tissue at -80 and the freezer was trending warmer... the recorder showed over a few hours it had warmed to -70.

Had to make a dash to pick up 50 lbs of dry ice so I could move the critical grafts to a cooler while I unplugged the cryo unit... there is a good chance it will be fine after 48 hours off to thaw... then turn it on Christmas Eve in and let it take time to reach -80 and stabilize... if all goes well I can transfer the tissue to the freezer Christmas Day... so I know I will be babysitting the cryo freezer this Christmas...

Thankfully the inventory is low... about 20k of tissue in the freezer.

 

[riptides]

You have written your responsibilities and can do attitude, which appears to have save the corporation serious dollars in this thread.

I suggest you find a place for these awesome tidbits in a resume package lest you forget. They should be presented to the new employer ASAP and bargaining can start from that discussion about your worth and skills.

I am at a point in my life, where I do not want anyone calling me unless it is a civil or national emergency. There are younger people that would love to do the work. I need peace of mind. It seems you are still going strong and revel in the challenges, my fear is that you will be boxed in with the new employer, what you have written here does not bode well for the box-type managers. They will not have control and may come to view you as a threat no matter the good you are doing. Interview your supervisors, hard, when the time comes.

 

[ultrarunner]

Very insightful as I feel a 180 attitude shift on my part...

I can adhere to the new rules to the letter... make sure I take my breaks and mealtime to the minute and should something come up simply say it will have to wait as I am on mandatory meal break... not who I am but I have worked with people that have no problem saying something is not their job or clock watchers... can be frustrating as all get out for me.

Learned the regional manager is someone I have worked well with in the past and will be my direct supervisor... we back in the late 90's we were project managers and the CEO came up with the policy we could not both be off at the same time because it was important to the Hospital that one of us always be available... not that we did the same work but we were the problem solvers willing to put in the extra time and effort to see a project through and on budget.

In our brief meeting yesterday... I mention this was not at all what I was expecting and had no problem saying what allowed the Hospital to survive is having people that could think in their feet and cut through the red tape to make things happen... I was met with this was very true and it probably would have closed if it was not for the efforts of a few key people but this is a new chapter as part of a large corporate healthcare provider that has volumes of rules and policies so things will be very much different.

The new administrator did say the same concerns were voiced to the new company regarding my role but the decision is theirs at the corporate level.

Between the lines it came across as go along now and once the dust settles we can revisit... but the new administrator can only make recommendations for creating a "New" position vs staffing existing positions.

We had 15 good years working together as peers... I believe there will be friction if I follow my new job description to the letter.

Still waiting to hear back from HR on my questions...

 

[Turbys_1700]

I would imagine your questions were not addressed when your new position was identified. A lot of those corporate guys only know numbers and not operations. Hopefully they will give you the leeway you need to do your job. Good luck and keep us posted.

 

[ultrarunner]

I'm thankful to have the sounding board here at TBN and be able to tap into the knowledge base.

Some anxiety could be of my own doing... I do take things very literally, especially when I "Voluntarily" agree to the writing job description with the little footnote on the last page stating I will be evaluated by this agreement and failure to perform is grounds for dismissal... words have meaning.

The deadline to accept is at the close of business today... doesn't look like I will have answers before then... part of me wants to insert my own disclaimer at the signature line regarding unanswered questions... which will probably do more harm then good...