Buying Advice CK4010 Purchase-Am I crazy?

[SammyNole]

Hey everybody. New member and I was looking for some advice/encouragement. I am very close to pulling the trigger on a new CK4010HST tractor, which will be my first ever tractor. I have spent time looking at pretty much everything out there-Kubota, NH, Mahindra, LS, Kioti, and MF. I only own 2.5 acres and plan on mostly doing loader work and some brush cutting with the tractor on flat, dry ground, albeit around a bunch of pine trees from a former tree farm.

I really don't NEED a 40hp tractor NOW, but everything I have read says to go up one size from what you think you need. For me, that is realistically the CK2510, but I want/need the extra lift capacity that the larger-framed CK2610/3510/4010 frame gives you, so I moved my search up to the CK2610. The "one size up" thing would then put me at the CK3510HST, but the dealer that I talked with only showed a $2000 difference from the CK2610HST to the CK4010HST, so I am thinking that I would be a fool to pass up the CK4010HST. Or am I a fool for buying such a big tractor when I don't necessarily need it now? I am looking at a 10 to 15 year investment here, so I don't know what I will need later on, so I figured go big now.

What is anyone else's experience with these machines, especially with the DPF? I know that they need to be ran harder/hotter to get them to regen appropriately, but I haven't read too many bad things about them. Also, the closest dealer is about 150 miles from me, but I called Kioti and was assured by their regional manager that there SHOULD be dealers in my area within the next 6 months, ad hopefully by the end of the year. Would that turn anybody off? Assuming that everything goes OK, would I need anything from a dealer within that time frame? I can't imagine I would put more than 50-100 hours per year on a machine, so that would put my first service out to 6 months or a year.

Any help would be very much appreciated!

 

[jeff9366]

The closest Kitot dealer is about 150 miles from me, but I called Kioti and was assured by their regional manager that there SHOULD be dealers in my area within the next 6 months, ad hopefully by the end of the year.

I would give "dealer soon" zero credibility. An inexperienced dealer, with an inexperienced staff, may not be much help.

I appreciated the fair amount of hand holding I received from my dealer during the first 400 engine hours, spread over two Kubota tractors. Also, most new tractors require some adjustments during first 100 hours of wear in, with the "safety lockout" switches being the most common culprits.

However, everyone is different in the amount of tractor/implement coaching they want or need. (I did not discover T-B-N until tractor #2.)

I think your size choice is fine. I bought three increasingly heavy tractors before I got it right with #3.

Certainly "ENOUGH TRACTOR".

 

[murphy1244]

Even though my machine has not been back to the dealer I would not shop past 50 miles from my place if I can help it. Welcome to TBN!

 

[Wagtail]

G'day Mate and welcome to TBN from Downunder.

Enjoy the site.

150 miles is not that far of a distance if that dealership is truly supportive of you. (mine is a 1.5 hr. drive away) When you purchase your first tractor, ask them what you will need regarding tools & lubricants/oil/filters to maintain your rig. If you stock up initially, it'll save you heartache in the future.

A lot of modern tractors require a 17mm wrench. I've found that when purchasing a 'set' of metric wrenches/sockets, the 17mm is skipped. :smiley_aafz:

 

[Streetcar]

Welcome
As newbie, I would not want my dealer 150 miles away.
Being unfamiliar with tractors and implements, you are likely to have many questions and need guidance.
Decide what work needs to be done and size tractor based on that

 

[IslandTractor]

Hey everybody. New member and I was looking for some advice/encouragement. I am very close to pulling the trigger on a new CK4010HST tractor, which will be my first ever tractor. I have spent time looking at pretty much everything out there-Kubota, NH, Mahindra, LS, Kioti, and MF. I only own 2.5 acres and plan on mostly doing loader work and some brush cutting with the tractor on flat, dry ground, albeit around a bunch of pine trees from a former tree farm.

I really don't NEED a 40hp tractor NOW, but everything I have read says to go up one size from what you think you need. For me, that is realistically the CK2510, but I want/need the extra lift capacity that the larger-framed CK2610/3510/4010 frame gives you, so I moved my search up to the CK2610. The "one size up" thing would then put me at the CK3510HST, but the dealer that I talked with only showed a $2000 difference from the CK2610HST to the CK4010HST, so I am thinking that I would be a fool to pass up the CK4010HST. Or am I a fool for buying such a big tractor when I don't necessarily need it now? I am looking at a 10 to 15 year investment here, so I don't know what I will need later on, so I figured go big now.

What is anyone else's experience with these machines, especially with the DPF? I know that they need to be ran harder/hotter to get them to regen appropriately, but I haven't read too many bad things about them. Also, the closest dealer is about 150 miles from me, but I called Kioti and was assured by their regional manager that there SHOULD be dealers in my area within the next 6 months, ad hopefully by the end of the year. Would that turn anybody off? Assuming that everything goes OK, would I need anything from a dealer within that time frame? I can't imagine I would put more than 50-100 hours per year on a machine, so that would put my first service out to 6 months or a year.

Any help would be very much appreciated!

I'm not sure your dealer is doing you any favors by encouraging such an upgrade. With 2.5 acres doing mostly loader work and brush cutting you really would do fine with the CK2510. I'd agree that the extra loader capacity of the 2610 is nice as is the three range hst. The horsepower however is almost irrelevant for the type of work you are talking about. The loader is the same on all of the CK2610/3510/4010 tractors as is 3pt lift and tractor weight. All of those tractors will lift exactly the same amount. The engine in the 4010 has about ten percent more displacement and puts out about 60% more horsepower so it is tuned more aggressively. The only type of benefit you'd get with the 40hp would be the ability to run six foot implements instead of five footers. With only 2.5 acres I don't see that as much of a benefit. Figure a six foot mower might save you 10-15 minutes over a 5 footer for mowing that area but would also cost more and require more storage space.

I took care of about 4 acres with a CK20 with is the predecessor of the CK2510. It was more than adequate. I did upgrade but only when I started caring for an additional 15 acres or so.

Stick with the 2610 and put the extra $2000 into a grapple and hydraulic remotes. You'll get WAY more work done clearing brush with a CK2610 with grapple than with a CK4010 without.

 

[SammyNole]

Thanks for the information, everybody. It is true that I have zero tractor experience, but I have extensive excavator, dozer, skid steer, and backhoe experience, so I don't feel that I am going in blind with this purchase. I feel very comfortable operating equipment, their limitations, etc., and don't necessarily feel that not having a dealer next door is a bad thing as far as tips and tricks goes. If anything, it would be with new and different implements, sizing, and types, and those will be purchased more locally, so I think that will be handled. I am quite frankly shocked that their isn't a Kioti dealer already, but I am quite sure that there will be one soon, and more than likely as a second line at an already established shop, which I am fine with.

And I am a reformed diesel mechanic, so I have more than enough tools and shop supplies to do anything needed for maintenance or repair, and I even have EGR, DPF, and SCR factory training from both Bobcat and Detroit Diesel, so that isn't blind, either. I'm just scared of a $20,000 tractor's engine control system versus a $50,000 skid steer or even $120,000 highway truck.

-IslandTractor-I totally get your point about it being too big, but I am looking at this as a LOOOOONG term investment, and I really don't want to have to progressively go bigger, as I would rather spend a little more up front and have a tractor that may be a little too big-at least that's the thought process. I am already going with rear remotes "just in case".

 

[IslandTractor]

-IslandTractor-I totally get your point about it being too big, but I am looking at this as a LOOOOONG term investment, and I really don't want to have to progressively go bigger, as I would rather spend a little more up front and have a tractor that may be a little too big-at least that's the thought process. I am already going with rear remotes "just in case".

But what are you gaining? A more highly tuned engine. No increase in loader capacity or 3PT lift. You have flat land so hills are not an issue. You are mowing less than 2.5 acres. Why would you ever need more horsepower or a different tractor??? The only think I can think of is that someday you might want an air conditioned cab but that would require jumping up to the NX series and lots of $$$

 

[SammyNole]

But what are you gaining? A more highly tuned engine. No increase in loader capacity or 3PT lift. You have flat land so hills are not an issue. You are mowing less than 2.5 acres. Why would you ever need more horsepower or a different tractor??? The only think I can think of is that someday you might want an air conditioned cab but that would require jumping up to the NX series and lots of $$$

True, nothing much for now. In the future, though, we may wind up in Tennessee near my wife's family with rolling hills, or in Virginia with my family with steep mountains, so in that scenario I think more HP would work to my benefit, right? Plus now I have some stumps I would like to attempt to uproot, some old dead/dying pine to cut/knock down, so more pushing and pulling power, too. I think I am looking at it like a gun, or any other tool: I would rather have it and not need it (right now), than need it and not have it.

 

[IslandTractor]

True, nothing much for now. In the future, though, we may wind up in Tennessee near my wife's family with rolling hills, or in Virginia with my family with steep mountains, so in that scenario I think more HP would work to my benefit, right? Plus now I have some stumps I would like to attempt to uproot, some old dead/dying pine to cut/knock down, so more pushing and pulling power, too. I think I am looking at it like a gun, or any other tool: I would rather have it and not need it (right now), than need it and not have it.

Fair enough but keep in mind that even the 2610 has a lot of stump pulling power in low range and that a properly ballasted tractor is as important as power when considering ground engagement tasks. Most folks don't try to pull out stumps or trees anymore. Using a grapple to rip up roots and pushing trees over is more common. Those tasks are more a function of loader strength (same on 2610 and 4010) and weight which is also the same.

If you must have more horsepower no one will stop you but keep in mind that implements make more of a difference than horsepower for most tasks. Putting the extra money into implements is often smarter than paying the premium for horsepower. Offering 40 hp in this frame size is just a marketing game. Look back at the past twenty years of CUT development and you'll see that 25hp or so in that frame size has been considered decent power. They bore out the engine a tad, slap in bigger pistons and engine software and charge $2000 more. Easy for Kioti to make more money that way but not necessarily the best bang for the buck.

 

[SammyNole]

Fair enough but keep in mind that even the 2610 has a lot of stump pulling power in low range and that a properly ballasted tractor is as important as power when considering ground engagement tasks. Most folks don't try to pull out stumps or trees anymore. Using a grapple to rip up roots and pushing trees over is more common. Those tasks are more a function of loader strength (same on 2610 and 4010) and weight which is also the same.

If you must have more horsepower no one will stop you but keep in mind that implements make more of a difference than horsepower for most tasks. Putting the extra money into implements is often smarter than paying the premium for horsepower. Offering 40 hp in this frame size is just a marketing game. Look back at the past twenty years of CUT development and you'll see that 25hp or so in that frame size has been considered decent power. They bore out the engine a tad, slap in bigger pistons and engine software and charge $2000 more. Easy for Kioti to make more money that way but not necessarily the best bang for the buck.

I gotcha. I was also looking at PTO HP. Its a huge jump (in my mind) from the CK2610, rated at 21.5 PTO HP to CK4010 at 33.5 PTO HP, which is about 35% more power. Wouldn't that allow me to run implements more efficiently? I know a 5" rotary mower will be more than enough power, but what about other things? Tiller, wood chipper, stuff like that? It was basically a $1K jump from 2610 to 3510, and then another $1K from 3510 to 4010. The biggest bang for the buck seemed to be the 3510 with its 28 PTO HP, but then my inner Tim Allen "More Power" took over and said for $1K more why not get 5.5 more PTO HP. Also, with the 3510 I already have to be subject to the DPF as well, so no difference there either. I guess basically I am just scared of the 2610 for what I consider an extreme lack of PTO power (though I don't really know if that would be an issue or not). According to the spec sheet, they all have the same pump flow rate of 11.7 gpm, so there is no advantage there.

 

[KTMT]

Just a note--check on the loader models available. The CK2610 uses a KL2610 loader while the CK3510/CK4010 use the KL4010 loader which is a little heavier.

 

[IslandTractor]

Just a note--check on the loader models available. The CK2610 uses a KL2610 loader while the CK3510/CK4010 use the KL4010 loader which is a little heavier.

I hadn't noticed that. If the KL4010 loader has more power then that is certainly a consideration. Maybe the CK3510 is the sweet spot. A loader upgrade ( haven't seen the specs yet) would be worth paying more for. Edit: I see the KL4010 loader offers almost a 50% increase in lift capacity (1250 to 1800). That is certainly worth paying extra for. I'll change my tune and advocate for the CL3510. A strong loader makes a big difference in brush clearing when combined with a grapple. Is the upgrade only $1000?

 

[K man]

If you ask me, I think 30 HP is good enough for the size of your lot. I have a CK30 HST and love it. Great work horse not too big or too small just the right size for working around buildings etc.

 

[sd455dan]

G'day Mate and welcome to TBN from Downunder.

Enjoy the site.

150 miles is not that far of a distance if that dealership is truly supportive of you. (mine is a 1.5 hr. drive away) When you purchase your first tractor, ask them what you will need regarding tools & lubricants/oil/filters to maintain your rig. If you stock up initially, it'll save you heartache in the future.

A lot of modern tractors require a 17mm wrench. I've found that when purchasing a 'set' of metric wrenches/sockets, the 17mm is skipped. :smiley_aafz:

Must be an Aussie thing- in the US they seem to skip the 16 mm and 18 mm :confused3:

To the OP
For 2 K difference, and not knowing what all you may need the tractor to do in the future I vote for the largest machine /highest PTO HP
2k for the difference is money well spent my:2cents:

 

[dadster4]

I agree with your logic in considering the 4010 over the 3510..."if you move to TN in the future" even though it may seem silly to spend the 1K more now, a little more HP never hurts. It's not like you're jumping into the next series higher. The loader capacity of the 3510 and 4010 are much better than the 2610, and will DEFINITELY come in handy. The dealer I purchased from is over 2-1/2 hours away, but others are nearby if I need an emergency repair. Over 175 hours seat time since April with only an ECU update needed per Kioti and no other problems to date. With your experience servicing Bobcats (previously built by Kioti) maintenance shouldn't be a problem. And yes, you will need a 17mm socket for the front wheels:laughing:

 

[SammyNole]

Hey guys. Sorry for disappearing when I have been so much great advice. I actually went back over to the dealer today to look everything over, and I have been reading all the comments on the drive over and back.

KTMT/IslandTractor-
I saw the huge discrepancy in the loader capacities, so that is one reason why I was looking at the 3510, and was so surprised at the small price jump up to the 4010 is what instigated this whole thing.

sd445dan/dadster4-
I was thinking that as well, that for only $2k today why not go as big as possible. I'm sure with inflation in a couple of years it will be more like 3, 4, or 5k in difference if I decide that I want to go bigger. I want to take as small a hit as possible right now, especially considering added emissions, etc that could be down the road. I figure tractors are getting any cheaper and emissions regs aren't getting any looser.

dadster4-
I'm actually from close to Bristol, TN, on the Virginia side. Near Wise and Coeburn, VA. And my wife's family lives in Middle Tennessee, near Cookeville. Small world. And while I was at Bobcat we actually never handled any of the CT models, so I really am not familiar with them at all. But I figure should anything go wrong, I can try to troubleshoot over the phone with the dealer. They are a small town shop full of good ol' boys, not a big corporate shop who just say "bring it in". Heck, when I was over there today I was invited to eat lunch with them and treated like one of the guys. Seem like a good bunch, but we will see.

Oh, and I will be getting a new CK4010HST in my driveway at around 2pm central tomorrow.

 

[IslandTractor]

Congratulations and welcome to the pack!

 

[Wagtail]

Must be an Aussie thing- in the US they seem to skip the 16 mm and 18 mm :confused3:

Yeah, and I don't know why... unless it's a matter of supply/demand towards the automotive market. Oh well.

There are heaps of individual 17mm spanners available, just not normally in a 'set'. I've since bought 3 different versions (straight, ratchet & pivot-ratchet) and marked them all with green electrical tape.

 

[SammyNole]

Yeah, and I don't know why... unless it's a matter of supply/demand towards the automotive market. Oh well.

There are heaps of individual 17mm spanners available, just not normally in a 'set'. I've since bought 3 different versions (straight, ratchet & pivot-ratchet) and marked them all with green electrical tape.

Yeah it is weird, because for me, 17mm, 18mm, and 19mm were used on a pretty much daily basis, and 16mm on a semi regular basis. I would never buy a set of anything if it ever skipped a size, so everything I have runs at least from 10-19, but usually from 8-22 or 8-24, both in 1/2 and 3.8 drive. I've found that Grey Pneumatic and Sunex impact socket sets usually don't skip, are good values, and hold up well. Not sure what you have in Australia.