Applying for jobs and scheduling interviews????

[rox]

It sure is! But, it can get a lot worse. We had to recruit 4 new people last year and it was a multi-month process whereby we had to rate hundreds of applications, most of which came electronically, and had sometimes 100's of pages in them. Then, after paring it down to a short list of 4 candidates for each of the four positions, we had to (usually) fly them in for interviews (6 or 8 or even 10 interviews per candidate), listen to them give a talk, take them out to dinner etc. etc. etc. How would you like to do THAT every time you had to hire somebody?

That would be very painful. On my last paid position over a decade ago I convinced my boss to have the entire team conduct the interviews. We all made up our list of questions on our own, we asked the same questions to each candidate, the candidate came in went from team member to team member being interviewed. Then the team got together and talked about the candidates. What was really cool about this is I convinced my boss to let the team also interview candidates, not just him, when the candidate would be hired he would be the boss to all of us :licking:

I really dislike hiring from the outside, it is so much easier to hire someone already within the org, but sometimes it happens. Another thing I dislike is training. Particularly when the person I am training is not bright enough for the work. I was very successful avoiding training. One time my boss got mad at me because he hired a person who was to take over parts of my responsibilities as I was overloaded, I wasn't involved in that hiring process. After about 2 weeks I went to him and told him the new person was weak. He was highly offended. However the new person quit within a month, couldn't handle the work. It was after that hire where I approached him about doing team interviewing and that time he went along with me.

 

[dickfoster]

A lot of my friends work in Silicon Valley... they are very good at what they do and have moved around a lot with increases in compensation.

The 4 I'm thinking of have almost been exclusively recruited... no sending out resumes and "Applying" for positions.

The Head Hunters can be very good at what they do and the ones that deliver are highly sought after on a one to one basis.

Poaching, Recruiting is the natural order of things...

Several have left very good positions at the angst of their spouses... the reason they left is fo Stock Options/Ownership positions... do they always work... no, but when they do it is very lucrative...

SRI, Genentech, Apple, etc...

All have done very well in a highly competitive environment and the employment contract based on the strength of the company making the offer is everything.

Some have been paid hundreds of thousands in severance packages... as per contract.

The skill set varies... Technical Writer, Management, Coder... etc.

That was my experence in SV too. I found the best jobs when I wasn't really looking for one. Either they found me or I'd ask an if by chance question in passing and the next thing I knew I'd be at a new job. The last company I worked for I started as a customer and ended as an employee. They hired me with no position in mind, they just figured it was a good fit and I had some knowledge of a new technology so off we went.

 

[dickfoster]

That would be very painful. On my last paid position over a decade ago I convinced my boss to have the entire team conduct the interviews. We all made up our list of questions on our own, we asked the same questions to each candidate, the candidate came in went from team member to team member being interviewed. Then the team got together and talked about the candidates. What was really cool about this is I convinced my boss to let the team also interview candidates, not just him, when the candidate would be hired he would be the boss to all of us :licking:

I really dislike hiring from the outside, it is so much easier to hire someone already within the org, but sometimes it happens. Another thing I dislike is training. Particularly when the person I am training is not bright enough for the work. I was very successful avoiding training. One time my boss got mad at me because he hired a person who was to take over parts of my responsibilities as I was overloaded, I wasn't involved in that hiring process. After about 2 weeks I went to him and told him the new person was weak. He was highly offended. However the new person quit within a month, couldn't handle the work. It was after that hire where I approached him about doing team interviewing and that time he went along with me.

I always figured that companies who interviewed you with everybody from the CEO to the janitor and did everything by committee didn't know what the h e l l they were doing. To me that's the manager's job so I always did my own hiring and my own firing. I'd let HR get place ads and get resumes in the door then I'd take it from there. I figured if I was going to have to be the one who had to fire them then I wanted to do the hiring too. If you don't know how to hire the right people then you've got no business being a manager of anything or anybody. I always considered it a personal failure if I had to fire someone, even if it was for cause.

 

[MossRoad]

We usually did team interviews. The three most experienced people and the boss would sit down and read resumes. We'd make a pile of YAY and NAY, then the boss would send the YAYS to HR and they'd set up interview times. We'd re-read the resume before the interview, and then all four of us would meet with the person. If the person wasn't a lying turd (would you believe people are deceptive in their applications? SHOCKING!!! :laughing: ), the boss would break away with the person and give them a one-on-one interview. If they were a tying turd, the boss would thank them for coming in. Later in the day, we'd meet again and discuss pros and cons of the person. Eventually, we'd rank them in the order we liked them, and offer the job to the person with the highest score. Worked good for us and I've made a lot of friends getting to pick them like that. :thumbsup:

 

[check]

I always figured that companies who interviewed you with everybody from the CEO to the janitor and did everything by committee didn't know what the h e l l they were doing. To me that's the manager's job so I always did my own hiring and my own firing. I'd let HR get place ads and get resumes in the door then I'd take it from there. I figured if I was going to have to be the one who had to fire them then I wanted to do the hiring too. If you don't know how to hire the right people then you've got no business being a manager of anything or anybody. I always considered it a personal failure if I had to fire someone, even if it was for cause.

OK, we don't give the Janitor a say. But (and this may surprise you) the Boss doesn't get a say either until we decide who we want to hire, and then he is expected to rubber stamp our chosen candidate(s). In fact, in our latest round of hiring (earlier this year), the Boss did say no to one of our four hires - so we launched a grievance with the Union! (Still pending.) He is no longer the Boss - he finished his term as The Boss and now he comes back into the ranks of us Peasants.

 

[dickfoster]

OK, we don't give the Janitor a say. But (and this may surprise you) the Boss doesn't get a say either until we decide who we want to hire, and then he is expected to rubber stamp our chosen candidate(s). In fact, in our latest round of hiring (earlier this year), the Boss did say no to one of our four hires - so we launched a grievance with the Union! (Still pending.) He is no longer the Boss - he finished his term as The Boss and now he comes back into the ranks of us Peasants.

I never did unions either nor did I want to. I was almost always a salary slave and couldn't stand punching clocks. Although I think I did once for about six months until I moved on.

 

[dieselcrawler]

I'm on the hunt for a new job myself...

LD1, I can't say I've had the issue you started this thread over, as I don't commonly apply for jobs, or put my resume out there. But I agree, it does seem like it should make sense to do a preliminary phone conversation. Lots of jobs on the local job advertising boards, but most are far below the salary I would be willing to accept. A major drop in wages with my current employer is the reason I'm looking in the first place! (Real good way to kill employees loyalty is cut wages, 18% in my case) When searching the list, I have simply passed over any not listing salery.

I have an interview on Tuesday, good wages, union job, close to home, industrial chemical plant setting. Fingers crossed.

 

[check]

I never did unions either nor did I want to. I was almost always a salary slave and couldn't stand punching clocks. Although I think I did once for about six months until I moved on.

We're all salary slaves at my work, and when we hire someone, we are stuck with them for 30 and even 40 years, until they retire. (We don't have mandatory retirement, and the last guy to retire finally left of his own accord at the ripe old age of 71.) In fact, since I got there 33 years ago, only 2 that I remember have "moved on" to other employers. Also, our Union has done very well by us, and we have a Collective Agreement that is envied by many! Wouldn't have it any other way.

 

[NorTracNY]

We're all salary slaves at my work, and when we hire someone, we are stuck with them for 30 and even 40 years, until they retire. (We don't have mandatory retirement, and the last guy to retire finally left of his own accord at the ripe old age of 71.) In fact, since I got there 33 years ago, only 2 that I remember have "moved on" to other employers. Also, our Union has done very well by us, and we have a Collective Agreement that is envied by many! Wouldn't have it any other way.

Wow! That is some advertisement you've just given for you place. Not many places are that good for the turnover to be so low. Can I ask what type of business and what size company?

 

[Turbys_1700]

Take this for what it's worth...

I've worked both in industry and education... Going on 35 years...

In education hiring is strictly on qualifications and reviewed by committee... It always helps to "know" someone in the loop... Connections... It's still important...

In industry I would make recommendations on hiring an individual after interviews... The President would either agree or not... It was my call... Again, connections and "knowing someone in the loop" is important...

I've had 5 different jobs in my life... Everyone of those jobs my qualifications met the requirements for the position... And in everyone of those hires, I knew someone in the company... Connections... It's still important...

YMMV...

 

[rox]

I always figured that companies who interviewed you with everybody from the CEO to the janitor and did everything by committee didn't know what the h e l l they were doing. To me that's the manager's job so I always did my own hiring and my own firing. I'd let HR get place ads and get resumes in the door then I'd take it from there. I figured if I was going to have to be the one who had to fire them then I wanted to do the hiring too. If you don't know how to hire the right people then you've got no business being a manager of anything or anybody. I always considered it a personal failure if I had to fire someone, even if it was for cause.

I should clarify, the hiring decision was made by my manager. We all interviewed around 5 candidates, but the actual hiring decision was his. However he did hire the person who the team most recommended. In other words, we interviewed and gave him our input.

 

[dickfoster]

We're all salary slaves at my work, and when we hire someone, we are stuck with them for 30 and even 40 years, until they retire. (We don't have mandatory retirement, and the last guy to retire finally left of his own accord at the ripe old age of 71.) In fact, since I got there 33 years ago, only 2 that I remember have "moved on" to other employers. Also, our Union has done very well by us, and we have a Collective Agreement that is envied by many! Wouldn't have it any other way.

In general, that's the first thing that's wrong with unions today. Unions are OK if they are needed but only as long as there is right to work protection for everyone. There is a fine line between actual need and abuse. Generally socialism of any kind just isn't my cup of tea as it cheats those who contribute more, do more and who are driven to succeed and advance themselves. Many unions are also baskets of corruption that cheat those they are supposed to represent the most. Public employee unions should not even exist as their employers are the taxpayer and duly elected representatives so in essence they already have a voice at the polls. In many cases where there was an actual need for a union to correct employer abuses, they corrected the initial problems then went on to outlive their usefulness, many times costing the membership their jobs and livelihood.

 

[dickfoster]

Wow! That is some advertisement you've just given for you place. Not many places are that good for the turnover to be so low. Can I ask what type of business and what size company?

The Peoples Republic of Canada perhaps. :laughing:

 

[check]

Wow! That is some advertisement you've just given for you place. Not many places are that good for the turnover to be so low. Can I ask what type of business and what size company?

Well, there are about 1500 of us permanent front-line "worker bees", and another 5500 or so support staff, all serving about 53,000 customers. And the turnover amongst the full-time faculty is so low because no one wants to leave, and no one wants us to leave. (We all spent so much time and effort getting hired and ensuring the right "match" that there really is no good reason to leave.) And, by the way, each of us are on probation for anywhere from 3 to 6 years before the employer decides whether to keep us or not, so by that time both sides are pretty satisfied with the employer-employee relationship.

Have you guessed it yet? We are a University.

 

[check]

The Peoples Republic of Canada perhaps. :laughing:

Hey, don't laugh, the Premier of China is in the Canadian Capital (Ottawa) right now visiting our Prime Minister (Justin Trudeau)! And Trudeau just got back from a visit to China where he was shaking hands with all their leaders.

https://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=...mz837P4E-MXkFAIbw&sig2=ATWzo3HcEfG9E8CtXHfbag

Didn't you know we're all Commies up here? Heck, we even have socialized medicine!:shocked:

PS: Justin Trudeau is the son of former Prime Minister Pierre Trudeau, who some of the older TBNers may remember, from back when he and Richard Nixon hated each other.

 

[dickfoster]

Well, there are about 1500 of us permanent front-line "worker bees", and another 5500 or so support staff, all serving about 53,000 customers. And the turnover amongst the full-time faculty is so low because no one wants to leave, and no one wants us to leave. (We all spent so much time and effort getting hired and ensuring the right "match" that there really is no good reason to leave.) And, by the way, each of us are on probation for anywhere from 3 to 6 years before the employer decides whether to keep us or not, so by that time both sides are pretty satisfied with the employer-employee relationship.

Have you guessed it yet? We are a University.

So I wasn't too far off, a gubberment enterprise funded by taxpayers never needing to turn a profit and no need to be efficient. I just wonder how happy the clientele are or do they really matter? BTW I also think the idea of tenure is really stupid. As any lifetime appointment regardless of performance is stupid, judges included.

 

[PILOON]

I have been on both sides of the fence.
Both looking and hiring.
In hiring there are lots of no no's.
Political opinions being one so I'd leave a controversial book on the corner of my desk to invite questions.
We were in an electronic business and I'd suggest the prospects parents were lucky that he could maintain the parents TV's etc.
A response that a TV was beneath him would result in elimination.

Like one recent grad that came in with his briefcase demanding 2-3X what the job paid just because he was married with 2 kids.
Yeah, still an entry position.

Then you want to hire a technician and in comes an 'engineer' demanding the job but his diploma is from an unknown university in Pakistan that has burned down(and he lost his sheepskin)
He threatens to sue due to profiling

Then I had one guy that was so confident in his abilities that he offered to come work for free for 2 weeks simply to prove his abilities.
Well he was hired and worked for me for about 10 years and was my most profitable technician. (but almost a one man union)

Then I once worked in sales for a fortune 500 in sales that always set quotas so high that they were not attainable.
Well I fooled them and overshot the quotas so they fired me because I screwed up production.
Their method was to set quotas that they would never pay bonuses and hope you'd quit and re hire a new rep thus starting the cycle all over again and always paying minimum salaries.
Oh, to be young again with the knowledge I have gained over the years.

 

[TheMan419]

So your looking for that "perfect" person who never wants to better themselves, is content to work until they die as your "secretary", because how dare they ?? !!
How do you think people GET experience in your field?? Someone got them started.

Not at all. But if I am offering a job in field A and you are getting a degree in field B why do I want to spend my time training you? I have gotten several resumes where people are in school to become a nurse. So in 2 years when they finish their degree they are leaving.

However, my last assistant was with me for 9 1/2 years. In that time she went from hardly knowing how to turn on a computer to passing testing to become a paralegal. During that time I was able to give her more complex tasks and eventually give her tasks I could bill clients for. Of course that meant I could pay her more money because she was generating income for the business.

Now why am I going to hire someone that as soon as they start to get skills through experience that make them very useful to me they are going to move on to a completely different field. I have no chance of keeping them happily employed.

On the other hand if they were in school to be a paralegal I would happily work around their school schedule to accommodate their learning. In fact of the 27 people we employ currently 4 of them are in school. They work flex hours that change each semester based on their school calendar.

So any more questions?

 

[TheMan419]

I should clarify, the hiring decision was made by my manager. We all interviewed around 5 candidates, but the actual hiring decision was his. However he did hire the person who the team most recommended. In other words, we interviewed and gave him our input.

I like staff to be in on the interview process as well. Finding someone whose personality fits with the rest of the people working there is important. It is amazing how one person can totally change the dynamic and morale of a work place.

 

[ultrarunner]

Not at all. But if I am offering a job in field A and you are getting a degree in field B why do I want to spend my time training you? I have gotten several resumes where people are in school to become a nurse. So in 2 years when they finish their degree they are leaving.

However, my last assistant was with me for 9 1/2 years. In that time she went from hardly knowing how to turn on a computer to passing testing to become a paralegal. During that time I was able to give her more complex tasks and eventually give her tasks I could bill clients for. Of course that meant I could pay her more money because she was generating income for the business.

Now why am I going to hire someone that as soon as they start to get skills through experience that make them very useful to me they are going to move on to a completely different field. I have no chance of keeping them happily employed.

On the other hand if they were in school to be a paralegal I would happily work around their school schedule to accommodate their learning. In fact of the 27 people we employ currently 4 of them are in school. They work flex hours that change each semester based on their school calendar.

So any more questions?

We do lose people simply because if they are young and after two years experience the big Hospitals can offer more...

It got to the point where we simply did not want to hire new grads and that did not go over well either... now we simply plan a third of the new hires will leave after 2 years... some actually do come back and are welcomed later... even years later and often when they try to balance family and kids...