New Septic System Troubles

[jrdepew]

Hey All,

I just moved a long way away from home to the Charleston SC area, and bought a new home 2 months ago. The house was finished a few weeks before we moved in, and has city water but a septic system. They built up the land to put the house on, and to bury the septic system (which is good, as we are awfully close to sea level down here). Most of the yard had been sodded with centipede but the area above the septic drain field was left bare (they had grown some rye just to hold the dirt in place). I planted centipede and it has been coming along good. A few weeks ago I noticed that one part of the yard was extremely wet...then it began to open into a small hole, and now it is a large hole, and the hole pumps water up and out whenever I wash dishes or run the dishwasher or washing machine.

I am guessing that they didn't put enough fill above part of the drain field (the yard is sloping down at this point...and I am guessing the fill dirt got thin). Any chance I am looking at something more expensive here? How much fill should there be over the leach field?

I am meeting with the septic installers and the builder tomorrow (they happen to be installing another 2 septic systems a short drive from my house). I have some pictures to show them and am hoping they make it right.

Who is in charge of filling in over the leach field after the system goes in? The GC or the septic company? I hope they don't fight me on this...it wouldn't be the first battle we have had to fight since moving in.

I would like them to come over, inspect the pipe in that area, the add more fill and grade.

Any comments? I have never dealt with a septic having issues before (I have lived my whole 29 years in houses with septic systems, and never had a single issue).





Thanks,
Joe

 

[nybirdman]

I would separate the dish washer and washing machine from the septic system.I little more work but saves lots of problems down the road.

 

[Wagtail]

Just to clarify, this is your Grey Water system. Your Septic System is plumbed for human 'waste'.

 

[Rustyiron]

I'd give these guy's a chance to fix things, but if it get's chitty (sorry couldn't resist) check with the local govt. I believe that most everywhere, there is permitting & inspections, and possibly a license for the contractor involved with a private septic system. To be cautious, get the guys names and who they reppresent that come out to your meeting. The drain fields that I have been involved in are usually perf. pipe (holes down) in a several feet thick gravel bed. Water flows to the least resistance and showing up above the pipe would indicate a big problem to me, but there are many types of drain fields and I do not know what they use in SC, but liquid showing up at grade is not a part of the "plan" for any design. Give the builder & his guy a chance.

 

[dickfoster]

I'd give these guy's a chance to fix things, but if it get's chitty (sorry couldn't resist) check with the local govt. I believe that most everywhere, there is permitting & inspections, and possibly a license for the contractor involved with a private septic system. To be cautious, get the guys names and who they reppresent that come out to your meeting. The drain fields that I have been involved in are usually perf. pipe (holes down) in a several feet thick gravel bed. Water flows to the least resistance and showing up above the pipe would indicate a big problem to me, but there are many types of drain fields and I do not know what they use in SC, but liquid showing up at grade is not a part of the "plan" for any design. Give the builder & his guy a chance.

It should be pretty sandy in that area. It was where I lived in SC and he's on the coast in the Charleston area.

 

[jrdepew]

Just to clarify, this is your Grey Water system. Your Septic System is plumbed for human 'waste'.

Thanks for this...I am hoping they are separate and I had a major brain fart thinking this was the septic!

 

[jrdepew]

It should be pretty sandy in that area. It was where I lived in SC and he's on the coast in the Charleston area.

Yes, the soil is very sandy and nearly rock free. The exact opposite of the heavy clay with tons of rocks I had in upstate NY...

 

[roadhunter]

I would separate the dish washer and washing machine from the septic system.I little more work but saves lots of problems down the road.

If I ever build I am going to do just that. Only toilets need to go to the septic tank.

 

[Deere Dude]

With a new house and new septic, the plumber who installed it has to fix it. The black and the grey water needs to go into that tank and bed. Just a wild guess, but I think running gray water above ground is illegal and the system should be sized correctly to take it.

If this house was bought recently by you but is actually an older house the septic system should have been inspected as part of the sale agreement. It does sond like it needs more dirt. I sure hope a pipe isn't plugged up, but the installer should figure it out quickly.

 

[CADplans]

I just buried one of these 6 foot long, 30" wide septic drain field sections to get rid of rain water run off from a 20X40 roof.

It was installed last summer. We have had near record rainfalls this summer, even 5" in a half day.

Calculate how many gallons that thing got rid of,, it is amazing.
The section cost about $15,,, to be sure you never had an issue, install 2.
I added a "T" to the 4" pipe feeding the septic section, so overflow would have some place to go.
The rainfall never even filled the 4" pipe. I plan on eliminating the T, by cutting it off below ground level, and capping it.

For somewhere between $30 and $100, you may be able to make the problem go away,,
it would be cheaper than dealing with non-responsive contractors.

(NOTE: even though it is not recommended, I dug a narrow trench below the unit,
and dumped about a cubic yard of rocks that I had picked up around the yard.
It got rid of the stones, and hopefully added some capacity.)

 

[rhunt]

If this was me and the house is new, meaning you are the first person to live there, I think I would go to the town building department and check the permits for this house to see if they were finalized, (passed final inspection). Getting together with the building contractor is a good idea but not the end-all for the solution to your problem. This sounds to me by your description above that you may have a more serious problem that may need the powers to be (meaning the inspection department/building department) to deal with your contractor (plumbing/septic contractor) as they speak the same language. Just my thoughts here. Bob

 

[oosik]

Any jurisdiction that requires a permit to install a disposal system should require a final drawing of the system - an as-built drawing. As a new home owner you should have a signed copy of this as-built or, at the very least, access to the drawing on file with the government permitting/approval authority.

This will show the type & location of all components of the disposal system.

You should not be simply asking that the area around the hole have added backfill - you should be asking that this problem be corrected. As indicated by RHUNT - this could be more serious than just a lack of backfill. I would definitely involve the government permitting/approval authority in this matter.

As the home owner of a new home there should be a warrantee period - usually one year - for the house & disposal system. This situation needs to be inspected and corrected by individuals knowledgable with its design/installation.

 

[jrdepew]

Thanks everyone, I am calling the building department first thing this morning to ensure that all the permits are finalized, and request a drawing of the septic system as installed.

Meeting with the builder and septic company this morning at the other work site assuming they don't get rained out.

I will post back with results from both.

-Joe

 

[jrdepew]

Waiting for the Department of Health and Environmental Control to get back to me...they hold as-installed drawings for any septic system done after 1990.

Met with builder, he said one of the septic guys stopped by Tuesday (Not when I was home...which was all day except from 4:30 till 6:00). They told him that I may have been watering to grass too often and saturated the ground. :duh:

At most, we did 2x 20 minutes a day, one in the morning, and one in the late afternoon, until we had a large number of seedlings, then went to 1x 20 mins a day, unless it was supposed to rain or the soil was still moist.

I had a meeting to get to at 10AM, so I will check back with the builder later to see if the septic supervisor can come take a look. Builder admitted he doesn't have much knowledge of septic systems (less than me it seems) but he thinks that all gray and black water are plumbed together...we will see what the septic company says later.

-Joe

 

[jenkinsph]

I doubt that watering the new lawn too much would cause the drainage to rise at a single point as you described. More likely a separation of the pipe has occurred allowing a large volume of drainage water to rise to the surface at this point where the hole is.

Additionally two twenty minute run times a day would not saturate the ground either. When I am setting up for new seedlings I set the controllers for four cycles per day with ten minute run times to keep the seeds moist.

It would appear that the problem area will need to be dug up to fix the issues. The lawn and reseeding will need repairing afterwards and these expenses should be covered by the general contractor not you. How he deals with the sub contractor is up to him. Unless you hired the sub contractor and paid him directly.

This repair should be inspected by the DHEC to make sure it is corrected. The lawn area should be repaired too. None of this should be a large expense for the contractors involved and none of this should be on your nickel.

 

[joeyd]

I had a similar problem when I had my house built. The septic field had been in place approx. 7 years before I built and the plumbers just connected to the existing never used system. After a year or so I noticed the issue and I had a septic guy tell me that my clay soil was not absorbing the water well and he advised me to add about a foot of top soil to help disperse the standing water on top of the clay. I had a friend who was an excavator add the soil, grade it and I even hydro seeded the area to let the grass help absorb the water. A few months later the same issue in the same area. I then had my friend come back and we dug up the field according to the as built drawings. We found out that not only were the drawings inaccurate but the type of system described was incorrect. They had designated a perf pipe and leach field system and what we found was a infiltrator system. Since the system had been installed so long before construction I had no one to go back to, the original installers had retired.

It had 3 legs, 85, 65 and 40 foot with the 85 foot leg running to the 65 then to the 40. We found out that the 85 foot leg was totally filled with dirt after 12 feet. The water had no where to go! I abandoned the 85 leg and reconnected the discharge line to the 65 foot leg then to the 40. We have had no problems for 3 years. If trouble comes back I can re construct the 85 leg and re connect to it. I believe that during construction heavy equipment ran over the field and compressed the leg causing it to get compacted with soil.

Based on your pictures and my experiences I would think you have a blocked leg or a broken line in that area. Good luck, it is a matter of who has the final responsibility. I would think it is up to the contractor to make sure it gets repaired either on his $$ or the septic sub contractor.

 

[tractorshopper]

I think Jenkinsph is on the right track. Septics may differ by county, but in Oconee, gray and black are together, they cannot be separated (at least you don't tell anyone later if you did separate them yourself, but all new construction is one tank for all waste).

I believe you probably have a tank settling issue due to the fill you mentioned earlier. If the house is brand new, your drain field should not be full already to the point that water is seeping up. The tank has probably shifted as it settled allowing the entry or discharge piping to be pulled away from the tank, thereby the effluent is bypassing your leach field. Either that, or someone drove a bulldozer over loose fill where the hard pipe sections are and it broke as it settled.

My best guess. I'm not an expert, but have had enough problems that I've paid for a decent education about them. ;-)

 

[TemporaryKubotaOwnerMark]

You should not be simply asking that the area around the hole have added backfill - you should be asking that this problem be corrected.

This times 1000!!!


Do NOT tell them to "do this particular thing" or "do that particular thing". Tell them to find the problem and fix it right whatever it takes. The minute you start telling them how to fix it, you have destroyed any legal standing you have to get them to make it right. They can just do exactly what you say, and then when it doesn't work, they have the perfect comeback, "We did exactly what you wanted us to do. Anything more is on your dime."

Do NOT do that!

As indicated by RHUNT - this could be more serious than just a lack of backfill. I would definitely involve the government permitting/approval authority in this matter.

Exactly. Keep it polite, keep it friendly, but keep it serious business.

It IS serious.

 

[Wagtail]

I think Jenkinsph is on the right track. Septics may differ by county, but in Oconee, gray and black are together, they cannot be separated (at least you don't tell anyone later if you did separate them yourself, but all new construction is one tank for all waste).

Well, if that's the case, therein lies my confusion. Over here, septic and grey water is separate... or maybe that was the method 20+ years ago and 'times have changed'. My septic is a two chamber concrete tank that leads to a french drain... I had it pumped for the first time a couple of months ago, it still wasn't full and the tank/system was 'healthy'. My grey water goes out to a different location and has never been a problem other than the odd tree root invasion.

Having the two systems separate decreases the flow-on to the drain fields so they're not overwhelmed.

 

[muddstopper]

My septic system was installed in 1984. No problems with drainage or seeping ever. A couple of years ago, there was a brush fire that got close to my house. The fire department decided to take a short cut thru my yard instead of driving on the road about 15feet away. Anyways, there truck fell into my septic tank. They paid for having the tank replaced and we hooked back to the original drain lines. A few months ago, I noticed my toilet wasnt flushing properly and then not at all. At no time was there ever any water perculating out of the ground. Well, I started checking the lines and found that the tank had settled in the hole and the line had been sheared off about 2 ft from the tank, we repaired the broken line and now all is well. Your problem could be caused by the tank settling and the line separating which would be a easy fix, except for the digging and mess associated with the repair.