Flail Mower Let's talk flail mowers

   / Let's talk flail mowers #3,331  
Yes I ran it with the rotor bare and it shook like crazy. Upon further inspection one of the bearings was too big and I bet that is where the shake came from. The bearing was oblong where it wobbled on the shaft. It was bad enough that something was wearing a spot on the shaft where the bearing sets against. I would call it the shoulder of the shaft maybe. The main problem I have now is the weights that were on it I have cut off in preparation for the new balance job I thought I was going to get. I can't imagine that the weight that was on it was original as one area had a hunk that was probably close to five pounds.
The weights on my Caroni are nowhere near five pounds. I'm guessing a matter of ounces at most.

If you set up the rotor in well lubricated bearings Ina workbench won't a five pound discrepancy be obvious even with static balance?
 
   / Let's talk flail mowers #3,332  
Ok guys. A truck arrived today with my new Caroni tm1900 today. They included the slip clutch but forgot the dipstick/plug/vent. I am impressed with the overall buld and welds. I suspect it will be a great machine. Guess I have to wait a couple of days to try it out. Thanks for all the info and ideas presented on this huge thread!!!!
Greg Harrison
 
   / Let's talk flail mowers #3,333  
Ok guys,

A truck arrived today with my new Caroni tm1900 today.
They included the slip clutch but forgot the dipstick/plug/vent.
I am impressed with the overall build and welds.
I suspect it will be a great machine.
Guess I have to wait a couple of days to try it out.
Thanks for all the info and ideas presented on this huge thread!!!!
Greg Harrison

==========================================================================


Hello gregharr55,


Welcome to the Flail Mower Nations,

I have to ask why you have a slip clutch as the V belts are
essentially the safety device for this mower?

Do not hesitate to ask questions and ask more questions after that.
 
   / Let's talk flail mowers #3,334  
... Part 3 ...

I can report on good authority that the duckfoot finish blades I mounted on my Caroni 1900 do chop the grass into small bits even cutting 3 inches high. These blades do not make hay.

The fastest I have mowed is 4th gear which is about 2.8 mph with the tractor at 2500 rpm and PTO at 540 rpm. I used this speed where the grass was not as thick. In 4th gear there seems to be a bit less chopped grass behind the mower than in 3rd gear. In other words less grass was cut in 4th gear than in 3rd gear. I conclude that the duckfoot blades create a strong vacuum that lifts the grass before cutting it. Since that vacuum effect has more time to operate running at a slower speed, that explains why there is more chopped grass behind the mower when using 3rd gear than using 4th gear.

In 3rd gear (2500 tractor rpm, 540 PTO rpm) my tractor ground speed is rated at 1.85 mph. There was no problem mowing 3 ft tall grass (3 inch cutting height) that was planted last fall and not touched since. But note that I am mowing grass and weeds, not brush and rocks.

And although it is still early days for me with this mower, my sense is that in 3rd gear (instead of 4th) the mower does a better job of lifting and cutting the grass that was pressed down by the tractor tires.

Below are some observations on using both the duckfoot blades and OEM 'Y' blades. The mowing height was set to 3 inches while parked on a concrete slab. For the Y blades I measured 3 inches to the middle of the cutting edge.

1. There does not seem to be any difference in the general size of the chopped grass bits until getting into 3 foot tall grass. In that taller grass the Y blades *might* produce a finer chop. Even if true the difference is minor.

2. If I am mowing with the duckfoot blades and lift the mower with the 3-point without first lowering the rpm then the mower throws lots of grass bits all over the back of the tractor and all the way up to the front of the tractor. This tells me the blades are creating a vacuum effect (even mowing 3 inches high) and moving a ton of air. The Y blades do the same thing but not nearly as much.

3. With the PTO spinning at 540 rpm and the mower lowered to the ground, the 2 sets of blades make a different sound. The duckfoot blades are louder and sound like what I image a 26 hp vacuum cleaner would sound like. I wear ear protection.

4. In the following pic both cuts were made with the duckfoot blades. The cut on the right was made in 3rd gear and the one on the left in first gear. All my cutting is at 540 rpm.

CRW_0637.jpg

The following pic is a closer view of the 1st gear cut.

CRW_0638.jpg

And here is a closer view of the 3rd gear cut.

CRW_0639.jpg

5. I put on the Y blades and cut a strip right next to each of the duckfoot strips in the above pics. In general 1st gear and 3rd gear results look similar since there is a fairly solid layer of chopped grass on top of all 4 strips. The next day I hand raked part of both areas. I raked in the same direction I mowed. For the 1st gear strips my raking produced about the same amount of grass for the 2 sets of blades. But for the 3rd gear strips the duckfoot blades made a noticeably bigger pile of raked up grass than the strip where I used the Y blades.

6. When mowing at a 3 inch height with the duckfoot blades the grass that the tractor tires drove over was not cut as short as the grass that was not driven over. Below is a pic taken a couple of days after I mowed. The grass in this area was about a foot high. The green strips are grass that was driven on. Note that most of the area in the pic was mowed in 4th gear. I still need to experiment with a lower mowing height.

IMG_1123.jpg

7. The different types of blades will show different results in different types of grass. We have an area in our pasture where the grass is more blade than stem. I used both sets of blades on that area and the duckfoot blades did a much better job.

8. I mowed a pasture for a neighbor using the OEM Y blades. That area included a patch of 7 foot tall reed canary grass. I went through that area in 1st gear and did OK. None of the grade 2 clevis pins failed.

And finally, here is a pic of what I have been using to mow our pasture.

IMG_1127.jpg

Some of you will no doubt recognize the above machine as made by Bachtold Engineering formerly of Forrest, IL. Pity that company is long gone since this is one of the best pieces of small engine gear I ever bought. Actually I will still be using this self-propelled walk-behind mower for the first cutting each year. When it is time to start mowing much of the pasture area is still too soft from the Pacific Northwest monsoons to support 5,000+ pounds of tractor, FEL and mower.
 
   / Let's talk flail mowers #3,335  
Leonz, in my years of tractoring some events like running over a water hose with good belts that don't slip can wind down and stall a tractor. That slow event can be in certain instances be just as damaging to pto clutch and drivetrain as hard sudden hits. Also bearings are in a strain witb reduced oil pressure.I try to always have a slip clutch on all pto driven devices. It is tedious to make sure it is in working order and at least sometimes it slips first. I am sure it is my ocd working overtime but I love my kabota and don't want it to have to go to the hospital.
Greg
 
   / Let's talk flail mowers #3,336  
OMG, Jelf still has paint on his rear roller!!! I haven't seen paint on mine in a decade.
 
   / Let's talk flail mowers #3,337  
The weights on my Caroni are nowhere near five pounds. I'm guessing a matter of ounces at most.

If you set up the rotor in well lubricated bearings Ina workbench won't a five pound discrepancy be obvious even with static balance?

Oh I could see it easily when the rotor was still on the machine. Even a very small amount of weight makes the rotor move. I'm still looking for a place to balance it.
 
   / Let's talk flail mowers #3,338  
Oh I could see it easily when the rotor was still on the machine. Even a very small amount of weight makes the rotor move. I'm still looking for a place to balance it.

If you can make it rotate with a small amount of weight that would tell me thats a good thing. If it took say 1lb to make it move that would mean its way out of balance. Are there any obvious reasons you think its out of balance like a missing station or a half missing station or are you going by the vibration.

I guess you've already replaced the bearings you said somebody put in the wrong size. Just a slight egg shape in the bearing housing or bearing race would case a vibration. Maybe you could start looking into that as opposed to the rotor out of balance. I'm just throwing out ideas maybe you'll hit on the problem soon.

It's going to take a lot of patience and work to remove the knives then install the bare rotor with the new bearings. Or if you have the knives attached already just go ahead and try it after you install the new bearings. Make sure all the bolts/pins are the same length. Longer ones are heavier :) Good luck with it.
 
   / Let's talk flail mowers #3,339  
You can make a static balance at home. You will need to carefully level the supports. I used two heavy wooden saw horses on my level garage floor. Whats important is to have a sharp edge to balance on and that edge needs to be level. I used single edge raiser blades for my small project.

Another tool for balancing would be a large turning lath if it can freewheel and you can support correctly - Be very careful doing this though.
 
   / Let's talk flail mowers #3,340  
If you can make it rotate with a small amount of weight that would tell me thats a good thing. If it took say 1lb to make it move that would mean its way out of balance. Are there any obvious reasons you think its out of balance like a missing station or a half missing station or are you going by the vibration.

I guess you've already replaced the bearings you said somebody put in the wrong size. Just a slight egg shape in the bearing housing or bearing race would case a vibration. Maybe you could start looking into that as opposed to the rotor out of balance. I'm just throwing out ideas maybe you'll hit on the problem soon.

It's going to take a lot of patience and work to remove the knives then install the bare rotor with the new bearings. Or if you have the knives attached already just go ahead and try it after you install the new bearings. Make sure all the bolts/pins are the same length. Longer ones are heavier :) Good luck with it.

Well I could make it move with a small amount of weight. I cut all the weights off that looked like they were not factory to get it ready for the dynamic balancing I thought I was going to get. I imagine most of my problem was the wrong bearing. It was letting the shaft get up into the shroud even.

I put the new bearings on and installed the shaft today. I couldn't turn the rotor as one of the grass guards was bent and dragging on the rotor. I will work on that tomorrow sometime. I called all over today looking for someone to balance it with no luck. I'm going to start trying to static balance it and see how close I can get.
 
 

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