Compact Utility Market Share Numbers - Anybody have Facts or Guesses?

[daugen]

Axlehub, thank you. Several Massey dealers in this area. I don't often see much of the small stuff out front like Kubota stores.
I have seen one up close. My memory was very shiny red paint and what looked like a high degree of fit/finish. But maybe not the latest bells and whistles
like Kubota had. Until one gets in the seat and feels how the tractor reacts to the treadle, it's all guesswork and looks. One could be jerky or just not as ergonomic for your body size. And somehow Axlehub I bet you have survived just fine without StallGuard all your life too.

 

[ovrszd]

Oversized, I agree, for snow in the North, a SCUT with a blade or blower is likely a hugely valuable combo. I wasn't trying to throw rocks here, my neighbor had a JD 2 series and sold it for a zero turn. He never bought a FEL, didn't have a garden, only mowed with it and realized he really need a good lawn mower not a tractor. And of course since I his neighbor have my tractor available, he is seriously happier with a JD Zero turn that took an hour off mowing his lawn. I've owned a Ferris ZT with full suspension and big Kawasaki and it was an utter rocket. but I learned my one failing arm couldn't handle it. Easier to spin a wheel with power steering. But no question the Ferris would have saved time on my current five acres even though my current diesel JD garden tractor goes way faster than I have any desire to go.

Is there a fully made in the USA SCUT or CUT?
If it were good, I'd pay more for that.

No matter whether a S or C is in front of it, a utility tractor by name does a lot of things. The jack of all trades, and master of some.
And I agree, most of us can't afford a top of the line zero turn plus a CUT, not when kids are in college and money always seems a little tight.
And throw in a big garden tractor to tow the carts, and...

and some times you just have to run what you got, or in the old drag car days, what you brung...

I never saw any rocks fly by or hit me.

Good discussion.

Good luck searching for that made in USA SCUT/CUT. Don't let some trick you with "assembled in USA".

 

[AxleHub]

Jenkinsph,

All up and down our neighborhood, the neighbors have JD lawn mowers of various sizes. But not a single one of the 20 or so are zero turn . . . I'm guessing its because we don't have gentle slopes on most homes . . And they use carts or baggers. But in most cases . . The lswn mowers do as good or betternthan a zero turn would anyway.

1 neighbor has a nice x728 and his slopes are similar to mine. But the cost for one of those new wasn't much different than a massey with fel and no mmm deck. Its a really nice unit but his biggest problem isn't the mower but the fact his driveon deck is 60" plus deflector so scalping can happen on some areas and width is pretty big compared to my 55 inch width. However for an organization he frequently helps out he uses a high end zero turn in slope areas and tight access areas . . . and he would much prefer it was not zero turn on all those slopes . . and had some episodes that were a little hairy.

Comparing my gc1715 to his x728 . . Our weight is only a hundred pounds difference when I don't have my fel on . . . and my mulching deck cuts a fine quality finish . . and our tire sizes are similar.

I think two of the issues with scuts used for lawn cutting is . . Turf tires are a benefit . . and choice of deck is a big issue. I also have a zero turn tractor (cub cadet I 1050) and it stripes the lawn very similar to my massey . . Nice appearance when striped Its a nice unit . . But its a noticable difference in engines even though both are the same hp.

I assume your x749 is a preferred unit over the x728. I love my mmm 54 inch mulcher deck . . But if it was driveon . . It would make it even better.

 

[AxleHub]

Axlehub, thank you. Several Massey dealers in this area. I don't often see much of the small stuff out front like Kubota stores.
I have seen one up close. My memory was very shiny red paint and what looked like a high degree of fit/finish. But maybe not the latest bells and whistles
like Kubota had. Until one gets in the seat and feels how the tractor reacts to the treadle, it's all guesswork and looks. One could be jerky or just not as ergonomic for your body size. And somehow Axlehub I bet you have survived just fine without StallGuard all your life too.

See I have to once again display my rookie status . . As I've never heard of stall guard on bx kubotas or other products.

One thing I've also found is my knee partners better with 2 separate pedals instead of a treadle.

What was telling to me . . was when I was checking out kubotas in early 2015, dealers that sold massey as well as kubotas had 1 2013 gc1705 and 1 gc1710 . . and that was the first time I'd seen massey scuts even though every state fair since 2006 I'd watched all the tractor (scut) offerings.

Remember . . 2015 looking at 2013 units. And they didn't recognize or really want to sell the advantages. In fact between tbn and lots and lots of personal researching is how I found out the massey strengths. They wanted to sell Kubotas . . then suddenly other dealers were requesting transfer of the units and then they got more serious lol. I also nited a trend on other dealers who for the first time were having Massey units and tractorhouse and others in early 2025 had many 2013s that were new. But it seems like demand really absorbed those intro units by mid June and even the hesitant kubota dealers were no longer trying to avoid the massey opportunities.

My job of looking and buying would have been much much easier if I had started with the dealer I ended up with . . Full kubota lineup and full massey lineup side by side and all indoors. But Massey's brochures look nice but kubotas are far far better as is jd or yanmar.

 

[MessickFarmEqu]

Does the volume of the BX25 surprise you Neil?? I know it's a handy little outfit. But man it's expensive.

It does. We've had a really strong run with BX25's in the last few years. It is expensive, but if you compare it to any other backhoe solution it makes a lot of sense.

 

[daugen]

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/owning-operating/47901-how-did-kubota-get-such.html

11 years ago we were curious too...an interesting thread

 

[jenkinsph]

Jenkinsph,

All up and down our neighborhood, the neighbors have JD lawn mowers of various sizes. But not a single one of the 20 or so are zero turn . . . I'm guessing its because we don't have gentle slopes on most homes . . And they use carts or baggers. But in most cases . . The lswn mowers do as good or betternthan a zero turn would anyway.

1 neighbor has a nice x728 and his slopes are similar to mine. But the cost for one of those new wasn't much different than a massey with fel and no mmm deck. Its a really nice unit but his biggest problem isn't the mower but the fact his driveon deck is 60" plus deflector so scalping can happen on some areas and width is pretty big compared to my 55 inch width. However for an organization he frequently helps out he uses a high end zero turn in slope areas and tight access areas . . . and he would much prefer it was not zero turn on all those slopes . . and had some episodes that were a little hairy.

Comparing my gc1715 to his x728 . . Our weight is only a hundred pounds difference when I don't have my fel on . . . and my mulching deck cuts a fine quality finish . . and our tire sizes are similar.

I think two of the issues with scuts used for lawn cutting is . . Turf tires are a benefit . . and choice of deck is a big issue. I also have a zero turn tractor (cub cadet I 1050) and it stripes the lawn very similar to my massey . . Nice appearance when striped Its a nice unit . . But its a noticable difference in engines even though both are the same hp.

I assume your x749 is a preferred unit over the x728. I love my mmm 54 inch mulcher deck . . But if it was driveon . . It would make it even better.

Just to clarify the weight differences which are much more than 100 lbs. a Deere x728 weighs 955 lbs. and a MF GC1715 weighs 1433 lbs. that is a 478 lbs. difference. Adding a 54 " mower deck to the x728 adds 170 lbs. So an x728 with 54" deck weighs 1125lbs. What does your 54" deck weigh?

How much extra weight does filled tires add to the SCUT for fel use? All of this combined can easily add up to 600 lbs of extra weight on the scut while mowing a lawn.

I would also add that you could option an x728 in the day with a 45 loader too but I would not want it for the same reasons being the extra ballast needed for safe operation is not easy to remove/replace. The x728 us two wheel steer so anyone wanting a fel would be much better served with a scut machine.

An x749 will easily out mow a scut with the same size decks if you have any obstacles in your lawn it will beat it by a wider margin. But if you need a fel the scut wins hands down. If you have a tlb already the need for the scut with fel is not that important, and having a garden tractor with 4x4ws can be a better choice. If you only have one machine to do all the jobs on a small property a scut is a good fit.

 

[jenkinsph]

Jenkinsph,

All up and down our neighborhood, the neighbors have JD lawn mowers of various sizes. But not a single one of the 20 or so are zero turn . . . I'm guessing its because we don't have gentle slopes on most homes . . And they use carts or baggers. But in most cases . . The lswn mowers do as good or betternthan a zero turn would anyway.

1 neighbor has a nice x728 and his slopes are similar to mine. But the cost for one of those new wasn't much different than a massey with fel and no mmm deck. Its a really nice unit but his biggest problem isn't the mower but the fact his driveon deck is 60" plus deflector so scalping can happen on some areas and width is pretty big compared to my 55 inch width. However for an organization he frequently helps out he uses a high end zero turn in slope areas and tight access areas . . . and he would much prefer it was not zero turn on all those slopes . . and had some episodes that were a little hairy.

Comparing my gc1715 to his x728 . . Our weight is only a hundred pounds difference when I don't have my fel on . . . and my mulching deck cuts a fine quality finish . . and our tire sizes are similar.

I think two of the issues with scuts used for lawn cutting is . . Turf tires are a benefit . . and choice of deck is a big issue. I also have a zero turn tractor (cub cadet I 1050) and it stripes the lawn very similar to my massey . . Nice appearance when striped Its a nice unit . . But its a noticable difference in engines even though both are the same hp.

I assume your x749 is a preferred unit over the x728. I love my mmm 54 inch mulcher deck . . But if it was driveon . . It would make it even better.

Just to clarify the weight differences which are much more than 100 lbs. a Deere x728 weighs 955 lbs. and a MF GC1715 weighs 1433 lbs. that is a 478 lbs. difference. Adding a 54 " mower deck to the x728 adds 170 lbs. So an x728 with 54" deck weighs 1125lbs. What does your 54" deck weigh?

How much extra weight does filled tires add to the SCUT for fel use? All of this combined can easily add up to 600 lbs of extra weight on the scut while mowing a lawn.

I would also add that you could option an x728 in the day with a 45 loader too but I would not want it for the same reasons being the extra ballast needed for safe operation is not easy to remove/replace. The x728 us two wheel steer so anyone wanting a fel would be much better served with a scut machine.

An x749 will easily out mow a scut with the same size decks if you have any obstacles in your lawn it will beat it by a wider margin. But if you need a fel the scut wins hands down. If you have a tlb already the need for the scut with fel is not that important, and having a garden tractor with 4x4ws can be a better choice. If you only have one machine to do all the jobs on a small property a scut is a good fit.

 

[AxleHub]

Just to clarify the weight differences which are much more than 100 lbs. a Deere x728 weighs 955 lbs. and a MF GC1715 weighs 1433 lbs. that is a 478 lbs. difference. Adding a 54 " mower deck to the x728 adds 170 lbs. So an x728 with 54" deck weighs 1125lbs. What does your 54" deck weigh?

How much extra weight does filled tires add to the SCUT for fel use? All of this combined can easily add up to 600 lbs of extra weight on the scut while mowing a lawn.

I would also add that you could option an x728 in the day with a 45 loader too but I would not want it for the same reasons being the extra ballast needed for safe operation is not easy to remove/replace. The x728 us two wheel steer so anyone wanting a fel would be much better served with a scut machine.

An x749 will easily out mow a scut with the same size decks if you have any obstacles in your lawn it will beat it by a wider margin. But if you need a fel the scut wins hands down. If you have a tlb already the need for the scut with fel is not that important, and having a garden tractor with 4x4ws can be a better choice. If you only have one machine to do all the jobs on a small property a scut is a good fit.

Greeyings Jenkinsph,

An interesting post. Obviously your weight number for the x728 show s quite a difference from what my neighbor had expressed and I'm sure you would have the correct number . . so I'm wrong. But then I'm confused as well because the x728 has a very noticeable ground rumble to it that even mine doesn't have. Its not the sound . . Its the ground shudder that typically is a solid heavy equipment piece moving. Also its surprising to be just under 1000 pounds when I see how big and heavy built it is.

Yet if his is 980 plus 250 for ride on deck and mine is 1433 plus 235 for deck plus another 150 for loaded rears . . I would think there would be a big difference of imprint or indication in our lawns . . . but there isn't.

Is your x749 with 4 wheel steer approximately the same size and weight as the x728?

 

[daugen]

I was comparing the JD specs on tractordata and it seems four wheel steer adds about fifty pounds and 4wd adds another hundred pounds, all sensible for the added hardware. My 60 deck is about to come off for winter maintenance and I wish I had a scale that could measure it but these larger decks have to weigh in the 200-300 pound range.

If I had an unlimited budget I'd buy a Kubota outfront commercial mower, 4wd, diesel, last forever. My older brother's is almost twenty years old and going strong.
Kubota just made a marvelous mower, though I thought its ride was no prize. I know JD is now in this market but the two folks I know who have these commercial mowers just rave about them. Then you get a SCUT or CUT for its attachments other than mowing and have the best of all worlds.
Except I didn't hit the lottery...

What I find very appealing now is we really do have more good choices for tractor buying. Wasn't that long ago there was quite a grey market for the early
Asian tractors coming in, supply had not met demand. But now we have lots of supply, and lots of choices. And I think a lot more competitive pricing.
We still want good quality, we just want to pay less for it...
Conversely, I sure think there is a market out there for a totally made in America small tractor.
Clearly the tractor companies don't agree.

Wouldn't you stop and look at a garden tractor or SCUT/CUT with a Cat diesel in it?