WICKED Utility Grapple!!!

[Xfaxman]

Quote Originally Posted by newbury&IslandTractor

Can you put together a simple chart showing the differences in materials used for similar sized grapples. I think that would be of help to many.
I agree, it's difficult to compare, we are usually ordering sight unseen.

Yes, I am working on a chart.

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Travis

Be sure to put the chart on the new grapple Website: Wicked Root Grapples

 

[IslandTractor]

Yes, I am working on a chart.


Why would it be silly? Don't you proclaim the virtues of lighter grapples?

The 54" is IDEAL for compact tractors from around 35HP up to 55HP. It weighs 349 pounds. 37" opening. We have one that's even lighter for less than 35HP.

The 55" is IDEAL for HEAVIER utility tractors up to 75HP that have more pushing ability, twisting power, ramming power, down pressure, lift capacity etc.. It weighs 627 pounds. 42.5" opening. Ideal. We offer this one in a narrow 55". Why? Because IslandTractor and others boast about a narrow grapple ALL THE TIME and I pretty much agree with him. I hear people all the time bragging about their heavy duty grapple that is 850 pounds. NOT IDEAL!!



I commented that more than half the people I talk to do not know how wide their tractor is.

It's true, trust me. Many people have no clue.
BUT, that is why we are here. To educate and guide customers in the right direction.
Just because people on TBN know the weight and width of their tractors doesn't mean that a high percentage of our callers do.




That would most likely be my pick, unless certain circumstances told me otherwise.

The M series is technically a utility tractor. The L5240 is technically a compact tractor. They're fairly similar. That is why there's not a simple, cut and dry method of grapple recommendation.
Many times, we need to talk through things to make a solid, educated recommendation.

Travis

Look, I know that it is difficult to give simple advice on grapple purchase when you know very little about the purchaser and what their likely needs are. My critique of your current marketing blurb for the 55" 600+lb grapple is not aimed at someone pondering using it on a true heavy utility tractor. My criticism was based on the fact that you guys seem to be pushing this grapple model for CUTs between 55hp and 75hp. Ted's L6060 is a good example. I explained in my earlier post that there is NO practical difference for grapple selection between Ted's L6060 and my 40hp DK40se. In fact, if anything, my tractor has a more powerful loader although the two machines weigh almost exactly the same in stock form so the two should really be running the same "weight" grapple. Anyone with an L6060 who looks at your website would come away quite confident that the correct grapple model was the new 55 rather than the ETA-SLRG-54. That's a problem IMO.

I also think it is a problem that you guys have introduced (at least I've never seen it used elsewhere) the concept of a "megacompact". That's just marketing baloney piled on top of manufacturers marketing baloney. You guys know perfectly well that the CUTs with more than 50hp ALL have the same frame and weight and loaders as their lower horsepower siblings in the same lineup. The Kioti NX6010 is identical to the NX4510 as far as weight, loader strength, hydraulic output etc. Same for the L series Kubotas using the same loader. I know there is no completely reliable "cut off" for when a CUT should be matched with a larger grapple but CLEARLY horsepower is not reliable at all so why set up your marketing to so clearly delineate horsepower as the important factor?

A simple algorithm based table would help educate customers and steer them towards the right grapple better than any difficult to remember naming system. It could be as simple as the following: A) Is your tractor less than 36hp and less than 3000lbs dry weight (get both of these from your manufacturer's website spec page). If so then consider the light weight 50" grapple. If your tractor is more than 36hp and more than 3000lbs but less than 5000lbs weight then consider the 54" middle duty grapple. If your tractor is between 5000-8000 lbs from the factory (do not include ballast, implements etc) then regardless of tractor horsepower, consider the 55" heavy duty grapple. Obviously this needs some work but the general idea is that there are a few basic questions that can properly steer the potential purchaser in the right direction. There might be exceptions to the rule and those could be discussed in a FAQ section.

It is difficult for new tractor owners and even a challenge for experienced CUT owners to educated themselves about how to match the correct grapple for their tractor. A bit of explanation in your marketing materials would help a lot. When I was first looking into grapples, I found the WRLong website very useful because they had an excellent FAQ section (not sure if they still do) that addressed a lot of these common issues. Developing simple FAQ answers to grapple weight, type, width, lids, mounts, hydraulic options etc would help orient them to the issues. Discussing the pros and cons of width, weight etc with reference to specific grappling tasks would allow them to ponder exactly how they might match a grapple to their intended uses. Discussing grappling no no's and basic principles like centering a load etc would also be useful. It is sometimes hard for folks who deal with grapples every day to understand just how clueless some purchasers are so it is even necessary to discuss things like the fact that grapples don't do a good job at raking leaves or picking up individual sticks etc.

I know it is important to convince the customers to buy from you but putting a bit of effort into general grapple education can pay off even more than giving new grapples fancy sounding names with arbitrary size cut offs. Having a FAQ page that gets lots of Google hits would drive business to you. Helping potential customers to self educate can be a better marketing strategy than just hollering "buy this one!".

Most grapple manufacturers are just building commodity items and focusing on sales. You guys (Ted and Travis) are the only ones who come close to Nelson Long in being recognizable personalities who are associated with grapples for CUT owners. Ted is famous for his many excellent "how to" videos but matching a grapple size and type to tractor is a bit more complicated and perhaps better done with words, tables and diagrams than video.

 

[EverythingAttachments]

Here is a chart. Let me know what can be done differently. It needs to be simple and easily understandable.

If you have a recommendation for the rating column, it needs to be simple so it can be incorporated into the chart.
There are 3 basic categories:

50" single lid
54-72" compact
55/73" utility

SIMPLE is the key word.

We aim to please.
Thanks
Travis

 

[IslandTractor]

That's helpful. I recognize the Excel spreadsheet look and it might be better to increase font size or play with the formatting so there is not quite as much white space.

The names are easier to understand. Maybe the 50 needs its own name (light duty compact??) but the simple light duty, compact and utility designations are much easier to grasp.

I'm glad to see the "mega compact" term removed but the horsepower breakpoint is still in there. Just doesn't make sense to me. I like the idea of calling the 627lb grapple utility instead of compact though.

Can you explain the weight difference between the 54 single compact and the 55 single utility. Yes, it is clear the utility is 9 inches longer (I presume bottom tines are longer) and I suppose the upper jaw must also be longer and wider but there must be some other significant amount of steel somewhere that isn't obvious. Both use the same 3/8"A572 steel and have the same number of tines. Does the utility grapple use a different size square tube??? Are the outside bottom tines doubled up on the 55?? The 55 weighs close to double what the 54 does. I can't make the math work on how that happens.

 

[EverythingAttachments]

Can you explain the weight difference between the 54 single compact and the 55 single utility. Yes, it is clear the utility is 9 inches longer (I presume bottom tines are longer) and I suppose the upper jaw must also be longer and wider but there must be some other significant amount of steel somewhere that isn't obvious. Does the utility grapple use a different size square tube??? Are the outside bottom tines doubled up on the 55?? The 55 weighs close to double what the 54 does. I can't make the math work on how that happens.

We didn't stray far from our original Wicked Design. It's proven, people love it and it just plain works. Tubing and tine thickness is the same on the lower body.
The plate steel, strong gusseting and framework on the lids is heavier. Cylinder mounts, hinges and hitch are all areas that are beefed up.
The main difference that translates into weight is that it is physically much larger.

Pictures are worth 1,000 words! We love pictures, right?
54" Wicked Compact beside a 55" Wicked Utility
The difference is pretty obvious when they're side by side.
Travis

 

[EverythingAttachments]

Why did we beef it up? For crazy people like this. Please don't try it!!

 

[IslandTractor]

Where's the little one? We need to see a family photo of baby bear along with momma and papa bear.

 

[EverythingAttachments]

Where's the little one? We need to see a family photo of baby bear along with momma and papa bear.

That would also be informative. I can make it happen when daylight returns!
Travis

 

[newbury]

Why did we beef it up? For crazy people like this. Please don't try it!!

Wouldn't you get more traction with the rear wheels on the ground

 

[lostcreekranch]

Ok, for my wish list, a 200 lb. grapple with 60" opening?

I have an 84" BD grapple with 34" opening and 900+ lbs. so, just as well shoot for the stars!




In all seriousness, my second grapple, for 46 HP LS tractor, will be used exclusively for limbs from trimming trees, brush, i.e. light loads. I want large opening to grab as much as possible. Don't give a rats ***** about heavy as, I have above big grapple on a 100 HP tractor, for trees, etc.

I think the new 55" utility grapple is best, I have found so far, to meet my needs.

The new chart is excellent but, I hope new, 1st grapple customers, will take advantage of visiting with the EA guys, on the phone, before making a final grapple selection?

My 2cents worth.


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