Blue smoke on cold start/cold outside

[liberty2701]

I had posted last year that my DK50 se was blowing lots of blue smoke on startup. Sent to dealer under warranty check and they attributed it to bad fuel. I received a $170 bill for that. Now that it is cold outside I started my tractor and it it blows tons of blue smoke for about 30 sec. It blows and blows until I raise the idle and then it starts to clear up and run smoother, It sound like an engine misfire when it is doing this. I did check all the glow plugs for function and they are good. I even swapped the fuel with no change. Is this a normal cold start for a Kioti? I have around 240 hrs on a 2014 model. I tried uploading a video and it is too big. I really do not want to go back to dealer and get another bill. Ran fine all summer with no smoke at all. It sucks because my MF before this never smoked on startup. I have to leave the barn until it clears so I can breathe. Any idea if I can upload the video? Zip file says 25mb

 

[K man]

Not sure about the blue smoke. Mine shoots black smoke when I first start it. The side where the exhaust pipe sits leaves a black soot like residue on my blower housing. I just think that is normal for diesel in my case cause the blower is right in front of it. I never noticed it on the FEL bucket..

 

[Coyote machine]

I had posted last year that my DK50 se was blowing lots of blue smoke on startup. Sent to dealer under warranty check and they attributed it to bad fuel. I received a $170 bill for that. Now that it is cold outside I started my tractor and it it blows tons of blue smoke for about 30 sec. It blows and blows until I raise the idle and then it starts to clear up and run smoother, It sound like an engine misfire when it is doing this. I did check all the glow plugs for function and they are good. I even swapped the fuel with no change. Is this a normal cold start for a Kioti? I have around 240 hrs on a 2014 model. I tried uploading a video and it is too big. I really do not want to go back to dealer and get another bill. Ran fine all summer with no smoke at all. It sucks because my MF before this never smoked on startup. I have to leave the barn until it clears so I can breathe. Any idea if I can upload the video? Zip file says 25mb

What was the $170 for exactly? What did your dealer do, and did it stop the blue smoke issue?
You say your glow plugs are OK- how did you verify that?
And, it sounds like unburned fuel and fouling, which could be injector related, instead of glow plug(s). For instance, if an injector has a particle fouling it's spray pattern, then it will not properly atomize the fuel sent through it, resulting in unburned fuel being present.
Your tractor is under warranty, yes?
If so the dealer should fix it, UNLESS it is a bad fuel issue causing a jammed or partially jammed injector or injection pump damage.
Have you changed your fuel filter regularly, and if so at what interval? You may have bad fuel crud/ water, or other matter in your tank, possibly.
Here's what I'd do, (after answering my questions so we have an idea what has already been done).
I'd change my fuel filter, and possibly consider draining the fuel tank. First I'd try some fuel injector cleaner for DIESEL engines, and see if symptoms change at all. Report back results.

BTW, it is NOT a normal start for any brand/model tractor to blow blue smoke for 30 seconds or more. And you might consider loading the video to youtube and then putting a link to it on this thread.

One other thing you ought to do to prevent possible engine damage is check your oil level carefully, daily until the problem is corrected. It is possible raw unburned fuel is making it's way to your crankcase/oil pan and diluting your oil as a result. This could have negative consequences for your rings, etc. if fuel IS making it's way through the engine instead of being burned. Try smelling the oil on the dipstick, and see if the level is creeping up the dipstick over time. If there is any fuel smell in the oil you'll need to change it and the oil filter to prevent dilution and possible damage to internal engine parts.

 

[DK35vince]

Are you letting the glow plugs cycle long enough ?
Maybe try to cycle the glow plugs a second time on cold days and see what it does.
I've worked around diesels a long time, some I've been around start up with very little smoke in cold weather.
Many smoke and blubber pretty good for a while when its cold out.

 

[liberty2701]

I removed each glow plug and measured the temp and voltage. They stay glowing for 17 secs. Fuel filter is changed and no crud in the bowl. I use a cleaner/ stabilizer all year long and Howse once the cold weather comes. Oil looks and smells good and level has not changed in 90 hrs since last change. It only did this when the cold weather came. Dealer charged 170 fir labor,fuel and stanadyne fuel treatment. The last time this happened was in july and it has not done it since. Now the cold weather is here and it is back. Like i said i pumped out the tank and put in fresh diesel with the same results. Here is the Youtube video link

QUOTE=Coyote machine;4299275]What was the $170 for exactly? What did your dealer do, and did it stop the blue smoke issue?
You say your glow plugs are OK- how did you verify that?
And, it sounds like unburned fuel and fouling, which could be injector related, instead of glow plug(s). For instance, if an injector has a particle fouling it's spray pattern, then it will not properly atomize the fuel sent through it, resulting in unburned fuel being present.
Your tractor is under warranty, yes?
If so the dealer should fix it, UNLESS it is a bad fuel issue causing a jammed or partially jammed injector or injection pump damage.
Have you changed your fuel filter regularly, and if so at what interval? You may have bad fuel crud/ water, or other matter in your tank, possibly.
Here's what I'd do, (after answering my questions so we have an idea what has already been done).
I'd change my fuel filter, and possibly consider draining the fuel tank. First I'd try some fuel injector cleaner for DIESEL engines, and see if symptoms change at all. Report back results.

BTW, it is NOT a normal start for any brand/model tractor to blow blue smoke for 30 seconds or more. And you might consider loading the video to youtube and then putting a link to it on this thread.

One other thing you ought to do to prevent possible engine damage is check your oil level carefully, daily until the problem is corrected. It is possible raw unburned fuel is making it's way to your crankcase/oil pan and diluting your oil as a result. This could have negative consequences for your rings, etc. if fuel IS making it's way through the engine instead of being burned. Try smelling the oil on the dipstick, and see if the level is creeping up the dipstick over time. If there is any fuel smell in the oil you'll need to change it and the oil filter to prevent dilution and possible damage to internal engine parts.[/QUOTE]

 

[DT86]

Maybe I missed it, but have they checked the injectors?

 

[Citydude]

I removed each glow plug and measured the temp and voltage. They stay glowing for 17 secs. Fuel filter is changed and no crud in the bowl. I use a cleaner/ stabilizer all year long and Howse once the cold weather comes. Oil looks and smells good and level has not changed in 90 hrs since last change. It only did this when the cold weather came. Dealer charged 170 fir labor,fuel and stanadyne fuel treatment. The last time this happened was in july and it has not done it since. Now the cold weather is here and it is back. Like i said i pumped out the tank and put in fresh diesel with the same results. I will get video onto youtube. QUOTE=Coyote machine;4299275]What was the $170 for exactly? What did your dealer do, and did it stop the blue smoke issue? You say your glow plugs are OK- how did you verify that? And, it sounds like unburned fuel and fouling, which could be injector related, instead of glow plug(s). For instance, if an injector has a particle fouling it's spray pattern, then it will not properly atomize the fuel sent through it, resulting in unburned fuel being present. Your tractor is under warranty, yes? If so the dealer should fix it, UNLESS it is a bad fuel issue causing a jammed or partially jammed injector or injection pump damage. Have you changed your fuel filter regularly, and if so at what interval? You may have bad fuel crud/ water, or other matter in your tank, possibly. Here's what I'd do, (after answering my questions so we have an idea what has already been done). I'd change my fuel filter, and possibly consider draining the fuel tank. First I'd try some fuel injector cleaner for DIESEL engines, and see if symptoms change at all. Report back results. BTW, it is NOT a normal start for any brand/model tractor to blow blue smoke for 30 seconds or more. And you might consider loading the video to youtube and then putting a link to it on this thread. One other thing you ought to do to prevent possible engine damage is check your oil level carefully, daily until the problem is corrected. It is possible raw unburned fuel is making it's way to your crankcase/oil pan and diluting your oil as a result. This could have negative consequences for your rings, etc. if fuel IS making it's way through the engine instead of being burned. Try smelling the oil on the dipstick, and see if the level is creeping up the dipstick over time. If there is any fuel smell in the oil you'll need to change it and the oil filter to prevent dilution and possible damage to internal engine parts.

[/QUOTE]

Do you have an engine block heater and engine warm when starting? I have an L2501 Kubota with 10 hours on it. It belches black/blue smoke and hiccups for about 10-15 seconds and then runs smooth and clears up. I'm not to concerned about it. But as stated above, watch your oil level if this issue comes and goes.

 

[liberty2701]

No heater. It actually was longer than 30 secs. It is abouit 1 min before it cleared as you can see in the video. Engine is cold. This morning in the 20's F.

 

[Citydude]

No heater. It actually was longer than 30 secs. It is abouit 1 min before it cleared as you can see in the video.

OK, didn't see the video in your post, sorry. Well, that's kind of concerning with all the unburnt fuel, but then it cleared up. Why it takes so long is beyond my expertise. I'm stumped. Wish I had a diagnosis for you.

 

[Coyote machine]

I removed each glow plug and measured the temp and voltage. They stay glowing for 17 secs. Fuel filter is changed and no crud in the bowl. I use a cleaner/ stabilizer all year long and Howse once the cold weather comes. Oil looks and smells good and level has not changed in 90 hrs since last change. It only did this when the cold weather came. Dealer charged 170 fir labor,fuel and stanadyne fuel treatment. The last time this happened was in july and it has not done it since. Now the cold weather is here and it is back. Like i said i pumped out the tank and put in fresh diesel with the same results. Here is the Youtube video link

QUOTE=Coyote machine;4299275]What was the $170 for exactly? What did your dealer do, and did it stop the blue smoke issue?
You say your glow plugs are OK- how did you verify that?
And, it sounds like unburned fuel and fouling, which could be injector related, instead of glow plug(s). For instance, if an injector has a particle fouling it's spray pattern, then it will not properly atomize the fuel sent through it, resulting in unburned fuel being present.
Your tractor is under warranty, yes?
If so the dealer should fix it, UNLESS it is a bad fuel issue causing a jammed or partially jammed injector or injection pump damage.
Have you changed your fuel filter regularly, and if so at what interval? You may have bad fuel crud/ water, or other matter in your tank, possibly.
Here's what I'd do, (after answering my questions so we have an idea what has already been done).
I'd change my fuel filter, and possibly consider draining the fuel tank. First I'd try some fuel injector cleaner for DIESEL engines, and see if symptoms change at all. Report back results.

BTW, it is NOT a normal start for any brand/model tractor to blow blue smoke for 30 seconds or more. And you might consider loading the video to youtube and then putting a link to it on this thread.

One other thing you ought to do to prevent possible engine damage is check your oil level carefully, daily until the problem is corrected. It is possible raw unburned fuel is making it's way to your crankcase/oil pan and diluting your oil as a result. This could have negative consequences for your rings, etc. if fuel IS making it's way through the engine instead of being burned. Try smelling the oil on the dipstick, and see if the level is creeping up the dipstick over time. If there is any fuel smell in the oil you'll need to change it and the oil filter to prevent dilution and possible damage to internal engine parts.

[/QUOTE]

Good video. It sure looks like a misfire from a pissing injector to me. You can watch the pulsing of the smoke from the exhaust pipe. As it starts to clear up it still spits occasionally.
That's my best bet. Seems the glow plugs are working from what you described.
I am confused about when this issue has been present. You said it happened in July too? That might explain why, if it's an intermittent injector why it occurs at various times including hot weather when cold start issues like glow plugs are largely irrelevant.
I'd pull all injectors and have them pop tested for spray pattern and opening pressure. Especially now, when the problem is present.
One injector could be acting rogue on it's own timetable. Testing them will tell you if they are the problem. Any qualified diesel shop can test them- they don't necessarily have to go to your dealer. Just note which came from what cylinder when you pull them.

 

[DK35vince]

Unburned fuel from starting in the cold.
Are all the glow plugs working ?
It clears up after running a short time.
Personally I'd just run the thing. My DK 35 will puff and blubber for a little bit on startup when it gets cold.

 

[liberty2701]

[
It originally happened in july . Dealer said it was fuel but never tested any injectors. It has been fine until recently when it got cold. It is under warranty. I should probably contact the dealer again and insist on them diigging deeper into it. What do you think?




QUOTE=Coyote machine;4299582][/QUOTE]

Good video. It sure looks like a misfire from a pissing injector to me. You can watch the pulsing of the smoke from the exhaust pipe. As it starts to clear up it still spits occasionally.
That's my best bet. Seems the glow plugs are working from what you described.
I am confused about when this issue has been present. You said it happened in July too? That might explain why, if it's an intermittent injector why it occurs at various times including hot weather when cold start issues like glow plugs are largely irrelevant.
I'd pull all injectors and have them pop tested for spray pattern and opening pressure. Especially now, when the problem is present.
One injector could be acting rogue on it's own timetable. Testing them will tell you if they are the problem. Any qualified diesel shop can test them- they don't necessarily have to go to your dealer. Just note which came from what cylinder when you pull them.[/QUOTE]

 

[Coyote machine]

[
It originally happened in july . Dealer said it was fuel but never tested any injectors. It has been fine until recently when it got cold. It is under warranty. I should probably contact the dealer again and insist on them diigging deeper into it. What do you think?




QUOTE=Coyote machine;4299582]

Good video. It sure looks like a misfire from a pissing injector to me. You can watch the pulsing of the smoke from the exhaust pipe. As it starts to clear up it still spits occasionally.
That's my best bet. Seems the glow plugs are working from what you described.
I am confused about when this issue has been present. You said it happened in July too? That might explain why, if it's an intermittent injector why it occurs at various times including hot weather when cold start issues like glow plugs are largely irrelevant.
I'd pull all injectors and have them pop tested for spray pattern and opening pressure. Especially now, when the problem is present.
One injector could be acting rogue on it's own timetable. Testing them will tell you if they are the problem. Any qualified diesel shop can test them- they don't necessarily have to go to your dealer. Just note which came from what cylinder when you pull them.[/QUOTE][/QUOTE]

For reference, just hit reply with quote to quote something already stated in your thread.
YES, definitely contact your dealer and tell them what you want and show them the video too. I'd make sure you discuss testing the injectors, first and foremost, and tell us what they say.
This needs to be fixed, so each cylinder runs as intended.

 

[liberty2701]

I will contact them on Friday. Happy Thanksgiving.

 

[Jerry/MT]

I had posted last year that my DK50 se was blowing lots of blue smoke on startup. Sent to dealer under warranty check and they attributed it to bad fuel. I received a $170 bill for that. Now that it is cold outside I started my tractor and it it blows tons of blue smoke for about 30 sec. It blows and blows until I raise the idle and then it starts to clear up and run smoother, It sound like an engine misfire when it is doing this. I did check all the glow plugs for function and they are good. I even swapped the fuel with no change. Is this a normal cold start for a Kioti? I have around 240 hrs on a 2014 model. I tried uploading a video and it is too big. I really do not want to go back to dealer and get another bill. Ran fine all summer with no smoke at all. It sucks because my MF before this never smoked on startup. I have to leave the barn until it clears so I can breathe. Any idea if I can upload the video? Zip file says 25mb

I wouldn't say that this problem is uncommon. It's tends to be more common on diesel engines with pre-combustion chambers that with direct injection diesels. I don't know what type you have. Even direct injection diesels have problems if the temperatures are low enough.

Does the OEM have any special starting procedure for cold starting? Like maybe double cycle the glow plugs, put the throttle in the mid position, etc. Are you using a winter blend fuel? Since the engine runs well and starts well in warm temps then I suspect the engine is in good mechanical condition especially with just 240 hrs on it.

Some of the newer machines have emission controls that change the injection timing when the coolant temperature is below a certain temperature. Do some research and see what you have . Our NH TD95D has a Tier II engine and it has this feature. If I start the TD95D in really cold weather and I haven't used the block heater, I get about 10-20 seconds of stinky smoke that's I believe is partially burned fuel. The diesel combustion process depends on high compression temperature to ignite the fuel and that peak temperature is reduced in cold ambient conditions and the cold cylinder walls at start up don't help the combustion situation.

I use the block heaters on both our Ford 4610 and the TD95D if the temperatures are 40F or lower. I get quick, easy starts with no prolonged smoke. It easier on the battery, the oil is warmed on the cylinder wall and it's just plum easier on the engine. The cab heater also starts throwing warm air quicker. I'd strongly recommend that you consider adding a block heater if for no other reason it makes cold starting easier. They are not expensive and are generally easy to install. And it may fix this "problem".

 

[Coyote machine]

I will contact them on Friday. Happy Thanksgiving.

Good plan. Same to you!

I wouldn't say that this problem is uncommon. It's tends to be more common on diesel engines with pre-combustion chambers that with direct injection diesels. I don't know what type you have. Even direct injection diesels have problems if the temperatures are low enough.

Does the OEM have any special starting procedure for cold starting? Like maybe double cycle the glow plugs, put the throttle in the mid position, etc. Are you using a winter blend fuel? Since the engine runs well and starts well in warm temps then I suspect the engine is in good mechanical condition especially with just 240 hrs on it.

Some of the newer machines have emission controls that change the injection timing when the coolant temperature is below a certain temperature. Do some research and see what you have . Our NH TD95D has a Tier II engine and it has this feature. If I start the TD95D in really cold weather and I haven't used the block heater, I get about 10-20 seconds of stinky smoke that's I believe is partially burned fuel. The diesel combustion process depends on high compression temperature to ignite the fuel and that peak temperature is reduced in cold ambient conditions and the cold cylinder walls at start up don't help the combustion situation.

I use the block heaters on both our Ford 4610 and the TD95D if the temperatures are 40F or lower. I get quick, easy starts with no prolonged smoke. It easier on the battery, the oil is warmed on the cylinder wall and it's just plum easier on the engine. The cab heater also starts throwing warm air quicker. I'd strongly recommend that you consider adding a block heater if for no other reason it makes cold starting easier. They are not expensive and are generally easy to install. And it may fix this "problem".

Sorry, the block heater won't cure a problem that shows up in July. The OP needs to get his selling dealer to test his injectors, while under warranty, and fix the problem.

 

[DK35vince]

Good plan. Same to you!



Sorry, the block heater won't cure a problem that shows up in July. The OP needs to get his selling dealer to test his injectors, while under warranty, and fix the problem.

I'm with Jerry.

 

[Coyote machine]

I'm with Jerry.

I'm with the OP to get his tractor fixed, while under warranty. Block heaters, and doubling the glow plug cycle times would only tend to mask the actual problem. Let's not forget that the current temps in New England; NH in particular, are hardly cold. Maybe some mornings in the low 30's or high twenties at best.

No matter what the actual problem ends up being, the OP deserves the best attention to this issue his dealer can muster. Let him seek it out. This isn't about who's right, it is about getting his tractor right.

 

[DK35vince]

I'm with the OP to get his tractor fixed, while under warranty. Block heaters, and doubling the glow plug cycle times would only tend to mask the actual problem. Let's not forget that the current temps in New England; NH in particular, are hardly cold. Maybe some mornings in the low 30's or high twenties at best.

No matter what the actual problem ends up being, the OP deserves the best attention to this issue his dealer can muster. Let him seek it out. This isn't about who's right, it is about getting his tractor right.

Your the one that thinks there is a problem, not me.
My work truck with a 4 and a quarter Cat will smoke like a chimney and shack your coffee off the dash for the first 3 minutes its running when I start it in any temp below 30F.

 

[Coyote machine]

Your the one that thinks there is a problem, not me.
My work truck with a 4 and a quarter Cat will smoke like a chimney and shack your coffee off the dash for the first 3 minutes its running when I start it in any temp below 30F.

I know there is a problem. The OP described it already. It's intermittant, happens in July, which makes no sense regarding glow plugs and block heaters, since neither is needed in northern New England in July.
Just let the OP take it to his dealer to fix it, and stop trying to argue with me - I'm not going to go round about this with you.

Your Cat diesel has little to no bearing on this tractor situation.