Your thoughts on my basement plans

[BitChin1]

deleted double post

 

[dragoneggs]

Eddie check into your annual ground temps for the depth you would install the pipe. What you want to avoid is any condensation forming in the pipe that might sit there for extended periods and allow mold to get going which will then be spread into your room when you turn it back on in late spring Google "earth tubes" to get more info on what folks use and potential issues and how to avoid them.

This is a very important issue to address!!!

 

[Streetcar]

For road widening projects, I have torn down several buildings with hvac ducts in the ground. None were insulated or did I see any mold. But this is my limited experience in Ohio

 

[dragoneggs]

For road widening projects, I have torn down several buildings with hvac ducts in the ground. None were insulated or did I see any mold. But this is my limited experience in Ohio

Insulated or not... If it condenses and doesn't vent enough to dry you are at risk.

 

[farmer2009]

Do you run the fan on the AC to help move the heat from the wood burner? If so, that would be enough air to stop the condensation and mold. If not a run once a week should keep it dry. I've never lived in a home that the heat moved that well without some help.

 

[westcliffe01]

Eddie, so long as there is plenty of rebar in it, and hopefully mesh near the surfaces and 8" thick or more on all surfaces you should be good to go. Poured concrete is obviously the best. Doing a suitable door and door frame is also somewhat of a challenge, it would have to be steel and ideally double wall for bending strength without the plate having to be too thick. The latch system should be akin to the system used on a safe door or a watertight bulkhead, not just 2 hinges and a single catch. An above ground shelter should be a lot easier to build than any kind of basement and should be dry. Just make sure to provide some means of ventilation or have the door latched open when not in actual use. All of the CAT facilities in IL have concrete "bunkers" inside the building and some of those have been hit by F5 tornadoes and when it is all over the only thing left is the slab and bunkers. The steel structure, machining centres all gone.

This paper is from 2011 and has many pictures of damage to homes and to storm shelters. Also talks of people being trapped in their shelters and why.https://ams.confex.com/ams/26SLS/webprogram/Manuscript/Paper211671/OKC%20paper%20combined.pdf

I woke up this morning with the realization that I really don't want a basement, and I was overthinking this whole thing, making it a lot more complicated then I needed to. My reasoning for the basement was protection from tornadoes. Since I'm digging a hole in the ground, I might as well make it as big as the room that is going to be above it. There is no reason for a tornado shelter to be 16x16 feet. Once I got to thinking of how big it needed to be, and that while we where in it, we where going to be wide away and not doing anything until the threat had passed, I got to thinking that I could have everything i wanted by just building an above ground shelter in the corner of my garage. This now removes a huge weight off of my shoulders and allows me to move forward with what I really want to do, build my great room!!!

Thank you, I really do appreciate all the great advice and humoring me while trying to figure out how to build something that I now realize, I no longer want. If I would have just listened to my own words when I said that I never plan on going down there once it's built, I would have realized that I really don't have any need or desire to have a basement. As for storing stuff, I am already in the process of creating a canning/processing room that is 12x24 that will hold everything we plan to can or pickle.

 

[farmer2009]

Can you check the link. It's not working for me.

 

[westcliffe01]

It is a link to a pdf file that you need to download, then open. Works fine for me.

 

[MossRoad]

Works for me, too. Scary stuff in there.

 

[EddieWalker]

Do you run the fan on the AC to help move the heat from the wood burner? If so, that would be enough air to stop the condensation and mold. If not a run once a week should keep it dry. I've never lived in a home that the heat moved that well without some help.

No, we just get plenty of heat out of the wood stove. Sometimes too much and we have to open the door to the garage to cool off the house. My house is very well insulated and it doesn't take much to get it warm. Our bedrooms is at the opposite side of my house from the wood stove, which makes it a bit cooler in there, which is what we prefer. My HVAC system is turned off right now and will remain turned off until late spring when temps and the humidity builds back up for summer.

 

[EddieWalker]

My plan for the storm shelter is to drill into the slab and epoxy in rebar going up 8 feet. Then set block around the rebar and fill the cavity with concrete as I go. For the roof, I will create a grid of rebar , form it and pour concrete. I've never done a roof before, so I still need to spend more time researching it.

For the door, there are some for sale that seem to run about a grand. I haven't seen what I can get from Home Depot or Lowes yet, just a few google searches. I also saw that some use three deadbolts to hold home made doors in place. Considering the cost of the door, I might just weld something together myself and go with the deadbolts

 

[westcliffe01]

Read the 2011 article and see how the structures failed. You would be far better off to cast the rebar into the floor with a 90 degree bend instead of using epoxy, that is likely to be your weakest link. The steel container that the drill rig employees survived in was anchored with 4x 1" diameter steel cables and the wind force on the container was so strong it broke one of the cables. But fortunately the other 3 held.

 

[Streetcar]

Eddie
How thick is your slab for anchoring?

 

[sriddle1]

Been reading thru your thread regarding a below grade structure. I build an Insulating Concrete Form (ICF) home in 2013, I used a couple of products that may be of interest. After the footings were cured I installed 6" Corrugated Perforated Drainage Pipe w/Sock on the inside perimeter of the footings. For the inside pipe to drain I connected it to a solid PVC Pipe that ran under the footing away from the structure. Crushed gravel was then dumped inside/between the footings, spread level to the top, I used a washed stone.

As a watertight seal under the eventual slab I installed STEGO's 15 Mil Vapor/Radon Barrier over the crushed stone, it's tough as nails, comes in large sheets, be sure to use their seeming tape.

For the outside I used Tampko's TW-60 Sheet Waterproofing Membrane, there’s a roll on prep product that literally grabs the membrane to the surface if needed, one you peel of the protective paper it’s sticky, very easy to install and I draped it so it flowed down the wall and over the footings, 12 inch overlap. Lastly, because I over engineer everything I installed the same STEGO 15 mil barrier over the TAMPKO, I rolled the top around furring strips then attached it to the top of the exterior wall, again used their seeming tape. I found the PVC Drainage Pipe stub coming from the inside of the footings. Connected that to solid corrugated pipe down slope away from the foundation. Lastly, Installed 6” Corrugated Perforated Pipe w/Sock around the exterior perimeter of the footings, connected that to solid pipe and eventually connected both interior and exterior solid pipes with Y connection down slope. Placed a good 2 feet depth of clean crushed stoned over the top of the exterior Corrugated Pipe, covered that with GeoTextile Fabric then backfilled……….. When I was doing the concrete work for the house I referred to PCA-100 2007 that gives easy to read specifics on anything concrete, especially rebar placement/reinforcement, etc. It’s out there on the Internet.

Phew, that took some explaining………….Anyway maybe those two products might be of interest. Good Luck.

 

[sriddle1]

Been reading thru your thread regarding a below grade structure. I build an Insulating Concrete Form (ICF) home in 2013, I used a couple of products that may be of interest. After the footings were cured I installed 6" Corrugated Perforated Drainage Pipe w/Sock on the inside perimeter of the footings. For the inside pipe to drain I connected it to a solid PVC Pipe that ran under the footing away from the structure. Crushed gravel was then dumped inside/between the footings, spread level to the top, I used a washed stone.

As a watertight seal under the eventual slab I installed STEGO's 15 Mil Vapor/Radon Barrier over the crushed stone, it's tough as nails, comes in large sheets, be sure to use their seeming tape.

For the outside I used Tampko's TW-60 Sheet Waterproofing Membrane, there's a roll on prep product that literally grabs the membrane to the surface if needed, onec you peel off the protective paper it's sticky anyway, very easy to install and I draped it so it flowed down the wall and over the footings, 12 inch overlap. Lastly, because I over engineer everything I installed the same STEGO 15 mil barrier over the TAMPKO, I rolled the top around furring strips then attached it to the top of the exterior wall, draped over the footings, again used their seeming tape. I found the PVC Drainage Pipe stub coming out from the inside, connected that to solid corrugated pipe down slope away from the foundation. Lastly, Installed 6 Corrugated Perforated Pipe w/Sock around the exterior perimeter of the footings, connected that to solid pipe and eventually connected both interior and exterior solid pipes with Y connection down slope. Placed a good 2 feet depth of clean crushed stoned over the top of the exterior Corrugated Pipe, covered that with GeoTextile Fabric then backfilled. When I was doing the concrete work for the house I referred to PCA-100 2007 that gives easy to read specifics on anything concrete, especially rebar placement/reinforcement, etc. It's out there on the Internet.

Phew, that took some explaining..........Anyway maybe those two products might be of interest. Good Luck.

 

[westcliffe01]

Picture of the drilling rig which weighed over 800 tons which was toppled by the tornado


Anchor bolts and nails which failed to retain wall to foundation


Impact damage to steel door of above ground "poured in place" shelter

 

[farmer2009]

It is a link to a pdf file that you need to download, then open. Works fine for me.

Got it to work once I tried a computer instead of my phone. Thanks.

 

[check]

Picture of the drilling rig which weighed over 800 tons which was toppled by the tornado <img src="http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/files/rural-living/447560-your-thoughts-my-basement-plans-ok-2011-tornado-damage-jpg"/> Anchor bolts and nails which failed to retain wall to foundation <img src="http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/files/rural-living/447561-your-thoughts-my-basement-plans-failed-anchor-bolts-jpg"/> Impact damage to steel door of above ground "poured in place" shelter <img src="http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/files/rural-living/447562-your-thoughts-my-basement-plans-damaged-bunker-door-jpg"/>

381 mph!

 

[MacLawn]

Eddie, I read up to page 7, me old haid started spinning, course, it spins a lot. Oh me, your basement build idea sounds like the way I think! That's what worries me about it. I do know how to think outside the box. Sometimes, it's been great ideas, sometimes it gets me into trouble. I don't know much, even though I've been around building most of my 67 years. I second all who said water WILL get in. Not if, when. It'll happen. Daggnabbit, I have enough trouble keeping water out of my boats! I'd be wanting to install a sump pump at time of building. That's about all the advice I can give.

Oh, and you do know...:umbrella-guy::us-texas: can be BIG.

 

[westcliffe01]

I calculated 280mph... I have experienced 100mph average for 3 days with 130mph gusts, but 280mph is just nuts....