quesiton on Clutch selection on a powere wheel barrow?

[BHD]

wanting to build a powered wheel barrow, and like the muck truck idea, Motorized Mini-Dumper Wheelbarrows | Gas Powered Wheel Barrow, engine powered wheel barrows for sale, muck truck parts, walk behind, landscaping wheelbarrow conversion kits

many more videos on you tube of it working,

I am concerned on the belt clutch, and the traditional lawn mower clutch with tighter for heavy loads and frequent engagement and disengagement,

one amazon review gave the clutch a questionable response and gave indication that it took a lot of adjusting to keep it working correctly,
and If I am using it for a difficult pour and the thing craps out, it could be such that a push wheel barrow would not even be usable do to grade or softness etc., and would be a hard ship to loose a few yards of concrete do to a belt clutch failure,

of the types below which one would you think would hold up the best under load and frequent start and stop,

I think here are the choices,

1 standard mower tractor belt tighter clutch, most like the lowest cost,

2 a go cart type centrifugal clutch, Belt Drive Centrifugal Clutches & Parts | Go Kart & Mini Bike Parts | MFG Supply mid price,

3 a different type of clutch that works more like a belt tightener, Centrifugal Clutch War Eagle: NORAM Centrifugal Clutches it grips the sides of the belt, as the pulley squeezes the belt, higher in cost,

4 Torque Converter Clutches type that snow mobile and some scooters use with the variable pulleys, https://www.gokartsupply.com/tavapp.htm higher in cost,

which type would you think would be the longest lasting type and easiest on the belt and the most durable,

 

[BHD]

one more of it working an amazing machine, there would be a lot of belt slippage working it over some of the obstacles as in the below video,

and the last thing I would want is to have to stop and replace a burning belt or a one that was shredded,

so what type of clutching would you think would be best?

I only want to make this unit once,

 

[farm boy00]

Only time i have ever seen the traditional lawn mower system not work is when i broke a belt

 

[Mysfyt]

How about a transaxle from a garden tractor? Hydraulic swashplate drive that would vary your speed and you don't have the worries about belts and clutches smoking. Forward and reverse to boot.

 

[BHD]

How about a transaxle from a garden tractor? Hydraulic swashplate drive that would vary your speed and you don't have the worries about belts and clutches smoking. Forward and reverse to boot.

that was my first idea, and mostly likely would work, even was given, a sears AYP mower, but need the lawn tractor, to use, but in the process, of using it, I used it to pull my portable scaffolding about a 500 pound trailer) around a lot this spring, and when I came up to some small obstacle the unit would stall out until either the speed control lever was moved to a higher level, or the engine speeded up (to develop more pressure), and did not like the way it would respond to some obstacle, the John Deere 111 with the manual transmission would deal with the obstacle easers than the hydrostat, and I talked to some others and said they noticed the same thing when more torque was needed, works fine under the loads of a mower, but with a load found it would stall out, If not maxed out. so I gave up for looking for a hydrostatic transaxle. thus the clutch and a manual transaxel.

 

[aczlan]

Look for one out of a garden tractor (80'sish machine with 5 bolt rear wheels). They are much stronger than a lawn tractor transmission.

Aaron Z

 

[4570Man]

Have you ever seen the blade engagement on a old piece of equipment? They have a spring loaded idler pulley that tightens the belt to engage the blades and loosens it to dis-engage. It would be costly, but using hydraulics like a skid steer or zero turn mowers would be the best solution.

 

[bigdeano]

How about this manual clutch? I just found it by googling.

Drag racing manual clutch, not a centfical but a true cable clutch

 

[farm boy00]

that was my first idea, and mostly likely would work, even was given, a sears AYP mower, but need the lawn tractor, to use, but in the process, of using it, I used it to pull my portable scaffolding about a 500 pound trailer) around a lot this spring, and when I came up to some small obstacle the unit would stall out until either the speed control lever was moved to a higher level, or the engine speeded up (to develop more pressure), and did not like the way it would respond to some obstacle, the John Deere 111 with the manual transmission would deal with the obstacle easers than the hydrostat, and I talked to some others and said they noticed the same thing when more torque was needed, works fine under the loads of a mower, but with a load found it would stall out, If not maxed out. so I gave up for looking for a hydrostatic transaxle. thus the clutch and a manual transaxel.

Your hydrostatic has the peddle right?? Did you know the more you push it in the faster it goes but likes torque

The less you push it in the slower but more torque

 

[bigdeano]

Maybe you could use a small motorcycle engine for power. They have a built in clutch and multi speed gearbox. Get one with electric start and you can put an electric fan blowing on the cylinder to cool it.

 

[BHD]

How about this manual clutch? I just found it by googling.

Drag racing manual clutch, not a centfical but a true cable clutch

called the company and they said it was no longer being manufactured and they just have not taken if off there web site, so that is not an option, Thank you.

and thank you to all who posted ideas, still thinking,

 

[farm boy00]

called the company and they said it was no longer being manufactured and they just have not taken if off there web site, so that is not an option, Thank you.

and thank you to all who posted ideas, still thinking,

We had one on a gocart like that but instead off manual shift you revved the motor off ideal and it kicked in. Really nice

 

[GLyford]

Advantage of a belt clutch, especially a belt clutch that applies the brake when you have it fully pressed down is that if for some reason your engine is overspeeding, you can't disengage a cetrifugal, but a belt you can.

As far as durability, if you are using the small a-section "automotive" belts, yes they can be fussy. I have never had a problem with the bigger b-section belts that wasn't caused by some other factor like loose trans bolts kicking the pulleys out of alignment under load, or the belt being many decades old. I think there is enough meat on b-section belt that it can both provide enough friction and take the amount of wear you are likely to throw at it. And as long as you pick your motor-to-trans pulley distance so that a current mower belt will fit, you can usually find replacements at most box stores on nights and weekends, as opposed to having to get a custom size from a bearing house during the week at business hours.

If you're planning on running something like a 4-horse pressure washer motor as opposed to a bigger lawn tractor motor, then I bet even the a-section belts would give you good service. Any load big enough to be a problem for the belt will probably stall the motor.

Biggest issue will be making sure your pulleys are lined up and don't wobble. Belts are forgiving, but the straighter they are the better they work.

The next question you have to ask is, do you want your clutch to engage when released, like a pedal on a mower, or engage when applied like on a snowblower or rototiller?

Looking forward to seeing the rest of your build.

 

[BHD]

to engage with the pull of a lever so it works like a dead man so the barrow would not get away form some one,

The next question you have to ask is, do you want your clutch to engage when released, like a pedal on a mower, or engage when applied like on a snowblower or rototiller?

to engage when applied,

if it was a disengage system I would not have the concern, but to engage when applied, lot is on how tight one pulls the lever, and if using a "clutch or break lever type like on a motorcycle, the movement of the cable would be about 3/8 to 1/2 inch, one would need a return spring (light) but unlike a lawn tractor that disengages the clutch, with FOOT power, much stronger than ones fingers, but am concerned about enough travel of the tighter and if one would have adequate force to make a solid connection, and not have to be readjusting it often, as if one only has about 3/8 of travel if you work with reduced leverage on the idler to increases the travel distance, that would increase the strength need to tighten it,

I really like the looks of that manual clutch that was shown (I am guessing it was a small planetary gear clutch as it had a brake band on the out side of a drum, and most likely used a go cart brake band as the brake, simple parts replacement,

one to get a dead mans type switch, (either throttle and centrifugal) or belt with lever to tighten it.

on snow blowers or roto tillers it is usually a lever with a lot of travel.

maybe wrong with I would think if one had to inch it up to a form or a location. a clutch that one had to work with the hands off the handles would not be that effective,

may be I need to build as right now it is just what I think it would be like and do, but I have worked with equipment for 50+ years, and have designed a lot of thing for my self, yes to inch up on some thing down shift to the low gear and inch it up but I am concerned with the low movement and what I think may be a lot of squeeze pressure to get to a non slip condition,

yes the motor is to be a 4.5 Honda pressure washer motor, (from what I can find I think the engine has a 7/8 shaft that may had some difficulty as most clutches and such are 3/4' or 1", I would think one could use a sleeve to use a 1 bore, tho,

 

[GLyford]

A lot of the ones I have seen use two springs, a light one to hold the handle open, and when you pull the handle it pulls a spring rather than on the idler directly, so that when you run past the tension point to actually grip the handle to guide the machine, the spring is holding the clutch engaged.

My Dad's old walk-behind two wheel garden tractor had an over-center clutch, you could ease up to it to engage, then flip it onto the over-center part to hold it engaged without having to keep hand pressure. The clutch handle was close enough to the operating handle you could pop the lever with your thumb without removing your grip, and it would release with the spring. In general, though, I find the snowblower/tiller levers easier to use. It is also possible that these machines approach the over-center point when the clutch handle is pulled fully, so that you are not resisting a lot of tension any more, just not so far over center that it latches.

 

[GLyford]

As for the pressure washer motors, it's not hard to find pulleys with 7/8 or 25mm or whatever odd bore. I found a cast iron one for my mulch buggy at a Tractor Supply, but they also had the weldable pulleys, with a selection of hub centers to pick from, and several different size pulleys (as well as sprockets, but that's a whole 'nother kettle of fish).

Here's the mulch buggy:


Decided front fenders were a good idea:


I originally set out to make a power wheelbarrow out of the same parts, but decided to keep it simple and keep the same drive controls and configuration so that I would actually complete it...while this does what I need, I think the power wheelbarrow configuration would be more generally useful.

 

[GLyford]

Oh, and it's running an ancient automotive fan belt full of weather cracks...haven't broken it yet.

 

[dcomp]

Rear tine tiller trans may work also

 

[BHD]

what I am thinking right now, is to g the belt lightener type, and see how it works, I know I will not be pouring the concrete until spring and that should give me time to test the system, if it does not work to my satisfaction (main concern is cost at the moment),
my next choice is the Torque Converter clutch Comet 30 Series Torque Converters | Comet Parts - Clutches and just a thumb throttle control,

I see advantage to both, the Muck truck brand use a belt Tightener,

my thought would be to make nearly over center or at least neutral 90 degree in to the drive belt, so the pressure to keep in place would be minimal (make the adjustor so the length of the engagement pulley arm could be adjustable.
have not made a test unit so exactly how I am not sure of the final design, probably similar to what a belt tightener would be with a bolt to move and adjust the moving part and a locking bolt system, some how be able to move the pivot point on a slide for adjustment and the standard swinging movement to do the actual tightening

 

[CDennyRun]

Have you thought about going hydraulic? Tried and true. Get a used pump off a junk man lift, or scissor lift, and a hydraulic motor off ebay. You could use a winsmith gear reducer for a gear box. Making axle shafts with u-joints isn't hard to do at all, if you have a decent welding machine. You could do it all on a very low budget, and fab it with parts you can get from any local automotive parts supply. A 2HP gas engine could power it, and use much less fuel than most other options.