Box blade, roll over box blade, or land leveler????????

[hunt4570]

I just had a couple fields cut out of the woods (http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/attachments/341417-field-cleaning-thoughts.html) and I'm needing to smooth them out along with some new "service" roads, I keep coming up with new ideas and thoughts on how to do this.

Box blades are easily available and about $100 per foot of width, I've got about 6' of tire space on my tractor so I'm thinking 6-7 feet. I found a couple used roll over box blades which seem a better option but the widest I've found is 5 1/2 wide which bothers me a bit. Then doing some more searching I came across some land levelers, can get a 7 footer for $750+ shipping (getting a quote on shipping on monday). That $750-$900 is about where I want to be on price so thats not really a factor.

I've used a box blade in the past so I know what it can do, never tried a roll over one or the land leveler so I'm looking for someone who has to shed some light.

It seems like the land leveler would do the job best, being longer it would not dip and pitch so much, but I'm afraid when I got done doing this project it would sit there without a job... Hmmmmmmmmmmm..

New Land Levelers

 

[jeff9366]

Here is a LINK to ROLLOVER BOX BLADE threads in the T-B-N archive:

https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=Rollover+or+standard+box+Blade+site:tractorbynet.com

 

[bcp]

Get a box blade so you can use it for many other jobs, and put gauge wheels on the rear of it, or 4-5 foot long skids on the side, for your road leveling.

Bruce

 

[npalen]

I added 20" gauge wheels to the back of my 5' BB and it makes a really nice tool for leveling work. The hydraulic top link adjusts depth of cut very precisely while the 3PT does the normal raising and lowering. Just a real neat tool to work with as the tractor undulations affect the blade very little.
The 3PH position control is dropped all the way to the bottom to let the blade float on the gauge wheels.

 

[hunt4570]

I added 20" gauge wheels to the back of my 5' BB and it makes a really nice tool for leveling work. The hydraulic top link adjusts depth of cut very precisely while the 3PT does the normal raising and lowering. Just a real neat tool to work with as the tractor undulations affect the blade very little.
The 3PH position control is dropped all the way to the bottom to let the blade float on the gauge wheels.

Got a picture of this?

 

[npalen]

Got a picture of this?

I thought you'd never ask


The axle frame is attached to the box blade with pivot bolts and zerk provision for later addition of a hydraulic cylinder lift similar to most "soil movers". My thinking was that a tongue might be added at a later date if the rigid axle setup didn't work out and then the cylinder would do the raising and lowering of the blade. The tongue would, of course, convert the tool to pull-type rather than 3PH mount.
I doubt that change will ever be made as the box blade works so well as currently configured. The 3PH mount makes it much easier to maneuver in tight places.
I had built a setup similar to this with a tongue about twenty years ago and it worked great for leveling also. I pulled the box blade with a ball on the 3PH and used the 3PH to raise and lower. That eliminates the need for a cylinder on the rear.

 

[jenkinsph]

hunt4570,
From what I have read so far you have a grapple and landscape rake and the dozer has pushed the stumps into burn piles. One of the pictures shows large root balls with lots of dirt on them.


I would continue raking and gathering with the above equipment until you get the surface cleaned up.
Try to get as much dirt as you can off the root balls so these stumps will burn better. While this may seem tedious it will save you a lot of time with the overall clean up, root balls filled with dirt wont burn well.
Once you have some cleared areas you can sort the existing burn piles into smaller clean burn piles to get rid of.

Once you have the surface cleared you can use a box blade or ripper equipped land plane to work on the shallow roots. Or you can smooth the surface and leave the majority of roots and seed over them. If you fertilize these areas with nitrogen to enhance the cover crop it will also promote rotting the roots. Keep the surface brush hogged to prevent the brush from coming back.

 

[boggen]

see attached picture.

the further the distance between wheels, and "what ever is in the middle". the bigger area you can smooth out more easily. without the need of any sort of crazy GPS / laser guidance system.

motor graders (see link) http://www.machinerytrader.com/drilldown/category.aspx?catid=1048&etid=1
the whole idea behind motor graders = the overall distance as well between tires and the implement they have attached in the center.

there are some DIY pull type road graders per say here on the forum, and on internet.

================
one thing that does it all "not out there"

ya need something to break up hard compacted dirt, like scraficer teeth on a box blade, or a bottom plow. something to loosen the dirt up some to help make it easier to biet into the dirt and move it, without constantly battling with hard compacted soils that are causing cutting edges to skip and bounce over the ground.
WARNING! never dig down farther than you need to. digging down to far, and then bring dirt back in, can lead to some settling issues. mainly due to compaction of the dirt, and after a year or 2, you may need to bring in more dirt to deal with settling issues.

ya need something to move dirt. Box blade, and/or FEL (front end loader) and/or roll over box blade... something that basically can load up with dirt or what not and move it some other place without loosing a lot of it. and then spread the material out, in helping to deal with low spots.

for roads / driveways, bring able to "angle" like a rear blade or york rake (large metal garden rake basically but for 3pt hitch) can be very handy. shifting dirt / material to one side. to note it, some rear blades you can get "wings" that kinda turn rear blade into a mini box blade per say.

if ya just planting grass for a lawn. a disc harrow or york rake or something that just crumbles up top couple inches of ground, and then toss your grass seed, then go back over everything with same implement to mix the grass seed into the dirt some. can make quick work of things.

if you are planning to actually put in "ROW CROPS", then getting something in there to cut down and grab tree roots and like would be advisable. so planters and other weaker stuff do not get hung up and break, or get clogged up with trash (roots and like) and stop working like they are suppose to. maybe a potoate plow / middle buster, or some longer scraficer teeth on a box blade, taking it slow with 1 or 2 bottom plow, and purposely hooking roots.
NOTE. a 3pt hitch tiller will most likely = you being at a dead stop cleaning out roots from the tines vs actually getting stuff done. at least that is how it has been over the years here, and just putting in a garden in a new spot or working up land, that has not been used before for garden or row crop like work.

i have used large logs (old trees that were cut down) to chain link fences, to other. and pulled behind tractor to help "smooth things out" for more of a final doing. this normally helps remove large clumps of grass, some bigger rocks, and flattens everything down.

==============
granted above most likely not much help, but rather goal of above was, for ya to understand a mix and match combo of stuff will most likely get job done, and no single implement will do the job completely.

TIP: i love adding extra weight to stuff, that is ground engagement 3pt hitch stuff, from concrete bricks, to sand bags, to misc metal i have laying around, to other. extra weight tends to keep the 3pt hitch implement on the ground vs bouncing / skipping across the ground. (more so during the dry drought years, but also in hard compacted soils / driveways)

 

[ovrszd]

I thought you'd never ask
View attachment 433528View attachment 433527View attachment 433529View attachment 433530

The axle frame is attached to the box blade with pivot bolts and zerk provision for later addition of a hydraulic cylinder lift similar to most "soil movers". My thinking was that a tongue might be added at a later date if the rigid axle setup didn't work out and then the cylinder would do the raising and lowering of the blade. The tongue would, of course, convert the tool to pull-type rather than 3PH mount.
I doubt that change will ever be made as the box blade works so well as currently configured. The 3PH mount makes it much easier to maneuver in tight places.
I had built a setup similar to this with a tongue about twenty years ago and it worked great for leveling also. I pulled the box blade with a ball on the 3PH and used the 3PH to raise and lower. That eliminates the need for a cylinder on the rear.

Very nice. And having the hydraulic top link makes it even more effective.

Only change I would make is to have the rear wheels the same distance from the BB cutting edge as the rear tires of the tractor are. This puts the blade in the center of the span between the 2 sets of tires. Similar to a Road Grader. Then you could drop the 3pt lever all the way and control the cutting height of the blade by extending/retracting the top link. Again, similar to how a Road Grader works.

 

[ovrszd]

Ooopppsss,,, I should have read forward.

Ryan describes the theory very well.

 

[jenkinsph]

I thought you'd never ask
View attachment 433528View attachment 433527View attachment 433529View attachment 433530

The axle frame is attached to the box blade with pivot bolts and zerk provision for later addition of a hydraulic cylinder lift similar to most "soil movers". My thinking was that a tongue might be added at a later date if the rigid axle setup didn't work out and then the cylinder would do the raising and lowering of the blade. The tongue would, of course, convert the tool to pull-type rather than 3PH mount.
I doubt that change will ever be made as the box blade works so well as currently configured. The 3PH mount makes it much easier to maneuver in tight places.
I had built a setup similar to this with a tongue about twenty years ago and it worked great for leveling also. I pulled the box blade with a ball on the 3PH and used the 3PH to raise and lower. That eliminates the need for a cylinder on the rear.

I have been working on drawings to add rear wheels to a Gannon box blade. I was also working with 20x10 10 smooth tires and using these with custom caster assemblies. Curious what size tires and wheels you have and the load ratings of these tires in the pictures?

 

[jenkinsph]

see attached picture.

the further the distance between wheels, and "what ever is in the middle". the bigger area you can smooth out more easily. without the need of any sort of crazy GPS / laser guidance system.

motor graders (see link) http://www.machinerytrader.com/drilldown/category.aspx?catid=1048&etid=1
the whole idea behind motor graders = the overall distance as well between tires and the implement they have attached in the center.

QUOTE]

I agree that a long wheel base makes smoothing easier. Laser with machine control and guidance is much better for leveling or grading to specific slopes.

 

[npalen]

I have been working on drawings to add rear wheels to a Gannon box blade. I was also working with 20x10 10 smooth tires and using these with custom caster assemblies. Curious what size tires and wheels you have and the load ratings of these tires in the pictures?

The tires are 1120 lb load rating at 30 psi and are 20"+ on the outside diameter and about 6" width. These are the 5-bolt hubs I'm using with 1" bearings on the spindle.
Ultra-Tow High Speed Hub — 5 on 4 1/2in., 1250-Lb. Capacity, Single | Hubs| Northern Tool + Equipment
I've found it important to keep plenty of psi in them to hold firm when the blade starts to "bite" in firm soil (aka "hard dirt") It's amazing how the blade cutting depth can be controlled well enough along with the weight of the box blade to skim turf leaving bare soil.
I agree that a longer distance from the tractor tires to the blade adds to depth control and leveling but I'm not so sure that the distance from the blade to the gauge wheel tires behind is important for leveling. In fact the closer they are behind the blade the more precisely cutting depth changes can be made.
The road grader mentioned above is a good example but I think that the only reason for distance between the blade and REAR wheels is clearance for the blade as it is rotated. I can see the distance between the grader's front wheels and the blade as being very important as the front wheels are on rough undulating ground. The grader's rear wheels. or the gauge wheels in the case of the box blade, are riding on smooth freshly graded ground so don't effect the cutting depth nearly as much. Granted the working conditions make a difference in how any arrangement performs.
I've been tempted to put a long pull type tongue on the front of the box blade but it performs so well as is that I dont' think I would be happy with the change.
These are my thoughts but I'm by no means an expert.

Then you could drop the 3pt lever all the way and control the cutting height of the blade by extending/retracting the top link.

That's the way I've been controlling cutting depth and it really works great.

 

[jenkinsph]

npalen,
Thanks for the tire information, the ones I have found have a similar rating and I have concerns that I need a higher load rating. The 20 10.00 /10" smooth tread tires would provide high floatation and minimal tracking though. My design is for separate caster wheel assemblies with self leveling casters. This should allow me to get closer to the fences and banks in 3ph mode. Then drop a tongue down and lock the caster wheels straight for towing and tight tolerance finish work. Both methods would use dual machine control and laser to maintain the grade.

 

[jenkinsph]

Here are some simple drawings of the caster assemblies. I have worked out the cylinder stroke and geometry to allow for about 11" above and below the blade. Keeping the caster pivots plumb should help with smooth tracking. These caster assemblies can be pinned on for removal and attachment as needed. I do have a drawing for the fold down tongue which when folded up makes the Gannon IMatch compatible too.

 

[bcp]

see attached picture.

But-but-but what about the 3rd alternative, like most wheeled scrapers?





The third alternative will move the blade up and down much less than the first very long design when the tractor runs over rough ground. However, it will not find very slight long interval dips and rises like the first will. Third is better for smoothing, first is better for leveling.

Bruce

 

[jenkinsph]

But-but-but what about the 3rd alternative, like most wheeled scrapers?

View attachment 433570

View attachment 433568

The third alternative will move the blade up and down much less than the first very long design when the tractor runs over rough ground. However, it will not find very slight long interval dips and rises like the first will. Third is better for smoothing, first is better for leveling.

Bruce

edit to add, smoothing and or averaging is different from leveling, a purpose built grader with the correct operator inputs can do a good job of leveling, smoothing and grading in general. It will average out the highs and lows much better than a short tractor and 3pt box blade. Motor graders with machine control are the cat's meow.

I bought a Cammond AP8 (similar to the one pictured) two weeks ago but haven't picked it up yet. The drag scrapers work great where you have room to use them. I find it is similar to using a pull type mower or 3ph mower as both types have their own benefits.

When you combine a laser with machine control the drag scraper does a great job. Corrections are very quick with the right set up.

At any rate here is another drawing with the caster/wheel raised.

 

[npalen]

jenkinsph---
Very interesting project that you're working on. Thanks for sharing the drawings.
What is the reason for the castering action on the wheels? To allow angling of the blade?

 

[npalen]

But-but-but what about the 3rd alternative, like most wheeled scrapers?

View attachment 433570

View attachment 433568

The third alternative will move the blade up and down much less than the first very long design when the tractor runs over rough ground. However, it will not find very slight long interval dips and rises like the first will. Third is better for smoothing, first is better for leveling.

Bruce

The A and B distances in the drawing are somewhat dictated by the scale of the leveling or smoothing project. Smoothing a 100 acre field probably dictates much larger A & B dimensions than smoothing the average size lawn. Some of the planes used for leveling fields for flood irrigation, for example, have these dimensions in the 20, 30 and even 40 ft. range.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=79AEujkhV5Y

 

[bcp]

I spent most of my farm time in flood or furrow irrigated territory, and some of the land planes were so large they had to be dismantled to be moved on the highway.

Most all replaced by laser equipment now.

Bruce