Telephone Poles

mark02tj · Mar 7, 2015

I know that the topic of using utility poles has been written about ad-infinitum but something that I haven't seen written about is using them for cross-members or beams.

Here's what's going on - the other day as I was pulling out of my driveway I noticed a utility contractor across the street in his pickup. He was putting some caution tape around the pole and spray painting around the grass. The next day I saw another crew up the road and they were marking telephone lines. Yesterday I left and saw a new pole sitting in the neighbors yard. As I drove up the road, I noticed dozen or so new poles laying along the road. It looks like they might have already replaced one pole at the corner. The new poles look like they may be shorter than the old poles (hope they're tall enough that the neighbor across the street can get his combine under them!) but they're a LOT thicker. I'm guessing the old ones are probably 8-9" in diameter where the new ones are more in the 14" range.

I'm hoping to catch the crews to see what they're doing with the old poles and why they're replacing them (I already read part of the "What's the useful life of a utility pole" thread). I'd like to put up a picnic shelter here and the poles would come in handy.

My primary question is this - can a utility pole be safely used as a cross-beam (right terminology?) for my picnic shelter? In other words, can I lay one horizontally across the uprights and use it as support for the roof structure? Or are these only designed to be used vertically? I do know that I'd have to take into account the taper of the pole.

We live in a log home so having a mostly log structure for the shelter would be a nice touch.

THANKS!!

pmsmechanic · Mar 7, 2015

I would do some research before I use them in a place where there is human contact. From what I understand the chemicals used to keep the poles from rotting underground are pretty harsh. For sure more so than what is sold for residential use.

Streetcar · Mar 7, 2015

Utilities near cincinnati have program to test structural integrity of the poles. They replace poles that no longer meet their standard.
The poles are designed for both vertical and horizontal loads.
Do not know the safety of long term human contact with the poles

s219 · Mar 7, 2015

Other than health concerns (out of my league) you sure can use them for structural beams -- sometimes I have used raw logs for post/beam structures, and it works great, save for some extra time notching at joints.

You can calculate the area moment of inertia for a round section (there are probably formulas on Wikipedia or just google it) and come up with the equivalent to traditional lumber. That way you can use standard beam tables for dimensional lumber to determine the size needed for the desired span, and then work out the equivalent diameter for a round beam.

Coyote machine · Mar 7, 2015

I was able to sign a hazardous waste release with my local utility for a bunch of poles. I used two for my pond bridge. I can drive my tractor, backhoe/bucket over it no problem. It will likely outlast me with the rough sawn planking and 'cosmic' treatment of chemicals from the utility.

txturbo · Mar 9, 2015

same thing is happening two blocks from my house. They are replacing the wooden poles with steel poles. They have about 20 60-80 foot poles laying in a pile that I've been eyeing.

jimmysisson · Mar 10, 2015

If the poles are protected from rain and snow, I doubt there would be any hazard, possibly aside from casual contact with posts via a wet hand. I would guess the creosote or whatever they used is tightly bound to the cellulose structure. As well, anything near the surface would likely have been leached out by weathering.
Calculating loads on an unknown species with x amount of degradation (from years of exposure) would be difficult. Overbuild your structure and keep the poles dry in service and you should be fine.
Jim

oosik · Mar 10, 2015

Boy, oh - boy ------ would I like to get my paws on a pile of "pulled" power poles. I figure they would be fantastic to use for the framework of a barn/shed.

paulharvey · Mar 10, 2015

Call your local power company. They may sell them to you for cheap, or they may refuse. Typically the line contractor is required to bring everything back to the pole yard. My power company will reuse poles on occasion, but sells the ones they can't for $0.80/lf. They will not help cut or load do to legalities.

Many times when they upgrade a pole, the power company will move there wire to the new pole, and "top" the old pole, cutting 6-8 ft off the top, getting it out of their way (and clearance for their line) and leave the old shorter pole until the shared users move to new pole (phone, catv, ect).

After the shared users move, power company comes back and pulls the old, now too short, pole. These shorter poles are to short to reuse for them, but my guess is a 16-24 ft pole will do what you want.

Edited to add random paragraph breaks to look like I speak English (lol)

beeforty · Mar 10, 2015

Just remember that since they have been cut off that the treatment given to them does not go all the way through, just like regular PT wood. I have an old pole section that I got years ago and never used and the whole center of it is rotted away.

PILOON · Mar 10, 2015

30 years ago I asked for an got 2 days later 12 telephone poles to make a shelter for our association corn roast/ party site.
I asked for the thinnest ones they had on hand.
We built a 16' X 24' framework and cut short pieces to brace the 4 legs at 45 deg
The roof was 2 x 4's 12 ft long and rigged to have 3 ' of overhang both sides.
Local lumber yard donated the 2 x 4's and tin for roofing.

Generally that structure supports 4 ft of snow on the roof every winter without complaining.
Always fearing taxation and city ordnance problems we actually used 2 poles as the base with flat spots to mount the 'legs' or 4 corner posts
To further suggest portability we tapered the base at the ends to suggest the whole thing was skidded.

PILOON · Mar 10, 2015

LOL, around me they better not leave the discarded poles lay about very long.
I start a split with the chain saw, drive a wedge (or wedges as req'd) and create split rail decorative fencing.
My three properties all sported nice sections that really create a nice setting for gardens, embankment protection and corner property markers.

Old split rail sections are fetching $15. and up per rail length and highly sought after by landscape designers.
To create a nice effect 3 rails per section is best.
Mine are free for a bit of labor and it normally goes all grey within 2 years and looks just like the real thing.

PS, cedar splits very easily!

Rustyiron · Mar 10, 2015

mark02tj said:
My primary question is this - can a utility pole be safely used as a cross-beam (right terminology?) for my picnic shelter? In other words, can I lay one horizontally across the uprights and use it as support for the roof structure? Or are these only designed to be used vertically? I do know that I'd have to take into account the taper of the pole.
THANKS!!

Off hand, for my idea of a "picnic shelter" say 20X30, I'd answer yes. Just keep your vertical post spacing under about 8' to be safe. Old pole's usually leach out most of the creosote over the years. I wouldn't eat off them but wouldn't worry about it for your use. I don't think the new poles are allowed to use it.

PILOON · Mar 10, 2015

Forget about the diameter, think of that pole as a 2-3" plank sliced down center.
Otherwise said a 12" pole will be as good or better than a 3 x 12 beam.
3 x 12 on 16 ft span will probably do just fine, over that add a leg center.
3 ft overhang at ends, I'd say no problem. 4 ft with short 45 deg brace OK.

Have fun, good luck.
Hey, 3 guys, chain saw, case of suds 1/2 day and you have your picnic shelter. (that was about our time to build)
well, maybe we had a couple more guys.

woodchipper · Mar 11, 2015

As the pole will be cut, the heart of the pole will tell you if it is damaged, or still sound. Have a feel with a blunt object. Try to know what speicy it is, as their strength (load rating) will vary. Ie: southern yellow pine-douglas fur-ponderosa pine, etc.
For your project, I would not hesitate to consider such poles to be a good avenue. As long as the span is per chart you are good to go. I would suggest that you look at proper log joint techniques to assemble your structure.

mark02tj · Mar 11, 2015

THANKS for all the responses!!

I think I'm going to go ahead and see how many of these I can get. If nothing else, I can stack them somewhere out of the way until I'm ready to use them. I have a buddy that works for the utility, so I'm going to drop him an email this morning to see if he knows what the "pole selling policy" is.

gordyy · Mar 11, 2015

I used 2 poles about 20 years ago to move a 2 1/2 stall garage lifted garage screwed 2X10 that I had laying around to wall studs backed in the trailer cut the poles to fit between the exposed inner area of the siding set the garage on them and drove the garage 6 miles to the new home. Replaced rotten sill plates and rotten lower studs were sistered back in then jacked up set down and drilled some new anchors into the concrete. Am sure it wasn't legal probably was way more weight than old poles should support but it sure worked good.

mark02tj · Mar 12, 2015

Quick Update - I was on my way home yesterday and saw a couple of the utility workers digging a new hole next to an old pole. Funny thing was that a lot of the digging looked to be by hand as they were only a foot or two away from the old pole. Due to rain and melting snow, the hole was full of water and they were having to scoop it out.

Anyway, the pole replacement project is being paid for by TimeWarner Cable. They are upgrading the cable around here and putting in "bigger cable lines". So the guys doing the work are doing it for the electric company who is being paid by TimeWarner. These guys are putting in the new poles and then moving the electric from the old pole to the new pole. Then they're cutting the top of the old pole down to the level where the cable (and maybe phone) are attached so that becomes the "top" of the old pole. At some point, TimeWarner will come along and move the cable service to the new poles. That could be 2 days, 2 weeks or 2 years! Once TimeWarner has moved their stuff, the power company will come along and remove the old poles. Who knows when that will be.

In the meantime, these guys are bringing the "tops" over to my place. These will be anywhere from 8-12 long. I'm going to use these for fence posts along the south edge of my property where the next door neighbor seems to be getting closer and closer to the property line. The foreman told me that the newly shortened poles will be too short for the electric company to use so it won't be a problem for them to give those to me as well - once they start removing them. They already dropped one top off yesterday afternoon.

John Dougherty · Mar 13, 2015

Mark, be sure you're not stepping over a dollar to pick up a dime. By that I mean sometimes adapting something that is free can cost you. This advice comes from experience, but good luck!