Yet another Kioti injector pump failure.

[DK35vince]

A friend of mine purchased a Kioti DK 35 se HST in 2008. Mainly because I have had such good luck with my 2001 model.
His injector pump failed (stripped gears) like so many others made from 2005-08.
He has always been very pleased with the tractor till now. Very disappointed because it never should have happened
I don't blame him. Kioti had a serious design flaw in there injector pumps from 05-08 and there should have been a recall IMO.

I had ritcheyvs add this pump failure to his ever growing long list of injector pump failures
http://kittrellcommunitywatch.dyndns.org/Kioti_IP_Data.htm

 

[k0ua]

Vince do we know that the problem ended in 2008, or is it just the newer tractors (like mine :laughing just don't have enough hours on them yet. I am somewhere short of 300. I didn't think to look out plowing snow today..

 

[DK35vince]

Vince do we know that the problem ended in 2008, or is it just the newer tractors (like mine :laughing just don't have enough hours on them yet. I am somewhere short of 300. I didn't think to look out plowing snow today..

All I know is that when I see more injector pump failures on one brand than all other brands combined something is WRONG.
No excuse for it.

 

[Avondale]

Thanks for the info. I agree regarding the recall. I now have almost 1500 hours on my 2006 DK35 (gear), not sure if I should think mine is immune from this problem.

 

[engine29]

And no other brands have any recurring problems, everyone else is perfect! Not. Quit blaming one brand.

 

[ritcheyvs]

I think a normal recall would be too disruptive (for owners) and too expensive (for Kioti). After all, only a small fraction of these IPs actually fail, although we don't have good numbers for this.

IMO, Kioti should provide an extended warranty (like 10-15 years) for these IPs. That's what GM did about the tail-gate cable on my pickup truck: if it breaks they'll fix it, free. That's what Kioti should do here, not just ignore the situation. But I don't expect any change short of a class-action suit, which would cost a lot more than a new IP.

 

[TJP89]

And no other brands have any recurring problems, everyone else is perfect! Not. Quit blaming one brand.

He's not saying only Kioti has recurring issues. Other brands have their own recurring issues. He is blaming Kioti for what is obviously a major problem that they have done nothing about. Kubota had some 3PT problems, Kioti has injector pump and key switch issues. Kioti isn't the only maker with recurring problems, but they're the only one with recurring injection pump failures.

 

[DK35vince]

He's not saying only Kioti has recurring issues. Other brands have their own recurring issues. He is blaming Kioti for what is obviously a major problem that they have done nothing about. Kubota had some 3PT problems, Kioti has injector pump and key switch issues. Kioti isn't the only maker with recurring problems, but they're the only one with recurring injection pump failures.

Thank you.
Kiot hasn't offered a fix for the problem.
Kioti is not helping owners with the problem after the warranty has expired.
Kiot is not offering individual repairs parts to fix a failed pump, they will only sell you the entire pump for big $$.
I put the blame squarely were it belonged.

 

[RockyNY]

Well technically Kioti has no legal or contractual obligation to provide parts or labor free of charge (once the warranty period expires), seems they could at least provide a rebuilt kit to make the repair economical.

 

[Amvcane]

They could at least put a service bulletin out on the problem. My 1998 ford explorer had a service bulletin for the timing chain tensioning cassette. Ford fixed it for free. I was the second owner and it was about 5years old at the time. I believe it had to be done before 70k mi. Kioti could put some limitations on the timeline, whether it be hours or years, and provide the parts necessary to their dealers for the fix.

 

[Avondale]

Can anyone say if this is a hit & miss issue, (quality control during build) or a design flaw that means everyone will fail, at some point? I rely on my tractor for most chores around here and would be snookered with out it. Thanks.

 

[ritcheyvs]

Can anyone say if this is a hit & miss issue, (quality control during build) or a design flaw that means everyone will fail, at some point? I rely on my tractor for most chores around here and would be snookered with out it. Thanks.

Just my opinion: This problem only seems to affect 2005-2008 models that have the stop solenoid on the front of the engine block. I suspect the gear metallurgy and machining were marginal for the repeated shut-off forces of the "new" solenoid design. But most of these IPs do not fail as far as I can tell and only one (of 3-4) gear break. So I wouldn't think failure is inevitable. On a positive note, it is easy to check for this failure just by removing the oil fill plate and many owners have repaired their IPs quite economically. But you still have to deal with a tractor that's dead in the water wherever you last shut it off and you won't get much help from Kioti after the warranty.

 

[Gittyup]

I had my IP fail at 300 hrs. I think I was just passed the warranty time period. Kioti replaced it for free. Dealer said the pumps used metal that was too brittle; that the replacement pumps used a different metallurgy. He also said it is exacerbated by the heavy foot throttle usage that occurs on gear models. I have been guilty of the foot throttle thing, as I think it's one of the advantages of gear: no more throttle than needed at any instance. After the failure, I use the foot throttle less.

I've seen several of these failures posted on here. Kioti knows the pumps are "defective". In some states, there are addition protections against material defects that might still hold Kioti responsible. I agree that Kioti should do something to help those with failures, but probably as they occur rather than an outright recall. I would suggest to anyone that has a failure to at least try to get Kioti to help. However, there is an argument for a recall because the pump could fail in such a way as to damage the motor. Mine failed in run-away fashion. Luckily, I have gear and it was quick and easy to stall the tractor with the clutch. This is also another reason why all tractors should have a kill button/knob. I've thought seriously about adding one, but I haven't gotten to it yet.

 

[Fuggley]

...I don't expect any change short of a class-action suit, which would cost a lot more than a new IP.

Hey Ritcheyvs, thanks on behalf of all of us for your efforts to document this. Have you ever provided your spreadsheet to the guys at Kioti headquarters? I'm sure they are all very happy that they stiffed a lot of people with this known problem and I'm sure your spreadsheet is only a very small representation of how rampant this problem is.
On the other hand I am sure they have lost some market share because of this. Buyers out there beware... do your research! Kioti obviously do not address known defects on major components after warranty ends.

 

[davesl708]

Well technically Kioti has no legal or contractual obligation to provide parts or labor free of charge (once the warranty period expires), seems they could at least provide a rebuilt kit to make the repair economical.

RockyNY, you are correct. This is a problem best dealt with in the market place. As the problem becomes know people will decide if Kioti is worth the cost and risk. If Kioti does not want to take care of its customers the customers will go else where. Kioti needs to decide which is better for the bottom line. Help the customers with a bad pump or loose customers and get a bad reputation.

 

[ritcheyvs]

Hey Ritcheyvs, thanks on behalf of all of us for your efforts to document this. Have you ever provided your spreadsheet to the guys at Kioti headquarters? I'm sure they are all very happy that they stiffed a lot of people with this known problem and I'm sure your spreadsheet is only a very small representation of how rampant this problem is.
On the other hand I am sure they have lost some market share because of this. Buyers out there beware... do your research! Kioti obviously do not address known defects on major components after warranty ends.

Fuggley: I have not had any communication with Kioti US on this subject. As you note the spreadsheet is just a sampling of IP failure events limited to failure reports in this TBN forum. I suspect many potential buyers only look at the pricing/buying forum and don't read this owner/operator forum until after they have signed the papers. Also since the problem seems to be limited to older (2005-2008) models, it wouldn't impact current sales except for the company reputation. The guy at Conestoga Diesel told me that this IP failure is quite common in agricultural Diesels (and he had never heard of Kioti at the time). So I expect this same problem effects many brands but the other (big $$) brands do a far better job taking care of their customers. That's why Kioti will never be in the big leagues, IMO. Instead of taking care of their customers they are adversarial. They pass the buck to their dealers in almost all cases and hire home office "customer service" people to stiff-arm customers that try to contact Kioti US directly. To make matters worse, they eliminated many small dealers a few years back so dealer access is a problem for many of us. My local Kioti dealer (was about 10 miles away) lost his franchise in 2010 (I think) so now my nearest dealer is almost as far as Kioti US in Wendell. We have Deere, Mahindra, Kubota, and Massey dealers (and maybe other brands) in the two nearest towns. Mail order parts support (e.g. MIE) is great but someone in my area would have to be nuts to buy a Kioti now. As has been said here, dealer quality is more important that tractor color but no local dealer means no deal in my book.

 

[hwkmn05]

Gosh, so thats why my throttle suddenly was stuck on full until I shut off the fuel. Its a 2007 DK45 HST so luckily I had it in N to start. That was at 300 hours. Suddenly, at 700 hours, it just failed. I will accept that over it being stuck open. Of course the $1600 is hard to swallow on one with low hours.

 

[thepumpguysc]

1600.00?? Don't you folks know they can be rebuilt?? at a fraction of the cost.. I rebuild those pumps on a weekly basis..
I do know that Kioti keeps this info close to the vest.. & if your do a search for kioti injection pump for your specific mdl.. all you get are NEW pumps in the search engine..
KIOTI DIDNT MAKE the pump.. ZEXEL DID, for KIOTI..
Feel free to contact me for an additional information on getting one rebuilt.

 

[VictorW]

I don't know your mechanic skills but rebuild the pump by you, thepumpguysc, or somebody local you know. If you search this forum, you'll find other posts with pictures of what parts actually go bad, how they did the removal and rebuild, and you can save a ton of money instead of a complete $1,600 pump even if you have somebody else do it. Just a thought.

 

[Lelandwelds]

Except for the bad heat treat problems, what causes the injection problems?

Water in fuel? Dirt in the 7 micron range? Poor lubricity as a side effect from sulfur removal? Teething problems with design of higher pressure systems? Too much time spent parked and shut off? Something the armchair internet experts haven't heard of yet?

Exactly what can I do to head off problems? I am cautious, tight with a buck, and a lousy mechanic.