Grid-tied solar

[Redneck in training]

Going solar is like buying all your electrical power for 25 years at onetime. For most that's simply not a choice. It's like saying paying cash for your house is much cheaper, true but most just can't. Solar designed into the home design from the start and rolled into a mortgage might make sense for many. Young people forging granite counters for solar makes more sense. HS

You can get second mortgage with low interest. In other words you pay for your electricity over time. It is also certain that cost of electricity will increase in the future and own energy generation will shield you from it to large degree.
In example one of the big utilities in Iowa wants to build a nuclear plant (using taxpayer money). It will certainly result in large (30%?) electric rate increase. In fact rate increase (unrelated to the nuclear plant) that will be phased in over next several years was approved in 2014.

Edit: The nuclear plant construction was abandoned.

 

[fordmantpw]

The investment for solar is 'breakeven' if the cost of electricity doesn't rise and stays exactly the same for the next 20 years. With the regulation of the power industry and the need for 'clean' coal, the cost of electricity is guaranteed to go up. Especially as these old coal plants are phased out or big money is spent to upgrade them. Not to mention the costs to secure a nuclear facility. Electricity has been really cheap for years, and the coming increase is inevitable. I consult for a large electric company in MO, and I have seen first hand some of the cost increases and the proposed rate hikes.

We are planning to add solar to cover about 90% of our electricity in the next couple years. Our plans are to go with about 60-70% of the panels late this year, then when we get our tax credit back next year, reinvest that into the other 30-40%. Should hopefully be less painful that way.

 

[Redneck in training]

The investment for solar is 'breakeven' if the cost of electricity doesn't rise and stays exactly the same for the next 20 years. With the regulation of the power industry and the need for 'clean' coal, the cost of electricity is guaranteed to go up. Especially as these old coal plants are phased out or big money is spent to upgrade them. Not to mention the costs to secure a nuclear facility. Electricity has been really cheap for years, and the coming increase is inevitable. I consult for a large electric company in MO, and I have seen first hand some of the cost increases and the proposed rate hikes.

We are planning to add solar to cover about 90% of our electricity in the next couple years. Our plans are to go with about 60-70% of the panels late this year, then when we get our tax credit back next year, reinvest that into the other 30-40%. Should hopefully be less painful that way.

I would go 100% this year because it is uncertain if the 30% tax rebate and state incentives will be extended and so far mortgage interest rates are low. Then invest the rebate.

 

[fordmantpw]

I do know that the 30% federal tax credit is good through 2016, and we don't have any state incentives (that I know of).

 

[Scooby074]

Tesla Bleeding Cash as Model S Hits Delays | New Car Pricing Insider Tesla Losses Tesla has racked up $1.3 billion in losses since 2008 and doesn稚 expect to break even until 2020. The carmaker has been blunt about the challenges and costs of high-volume manufacturing. In an earnings call with analysts on Feb. 11, Tesla CEO and co-founder Elon Musk said the company was going to 都pend staggering amounts of money as it delivers the first Model X SUV to customers this summer, builds the gigafactory for battery production and designs the Model 3 sedan, due in the second half of 2017. çš„f Apple is starting now it would take a couple of years to catch up to Tesla, said Ben Kallo, a San Francisco-based analyst for R.W. Baird. 摘ven after a car is designed, the competitors will have to source batteries in quantity and cost. Tesla is a couple of years ahead on this front. Thereç—´ another big challenge. This is a car weæ±*e talking about. After many decades of building cars, even the auto industryç—´ venerable players like Toyota and GM have stumbled at the seemingly simple task of making all of their vehicles free of safety defects. Yes, I do believe it, when you don't make money you go out of business. Looks like Apple might buy them with petty cash. Hope Apple doesn't get involved with products no one wants, like electric cars. HS

Launching a car brand is very expensive and full of hitches. "Bleeding cash" is to be expected.

 

[Tororider]

Launching a car brand is very expensive and full of hitches. "Bleeding cash" is to be expected.

Also, having debt doesn't necessarily mean bankruptcy.

 

[ultrarunner]

Word in the Valley and confirmed on tonight's news cast is Apple is considering acquiring Tesla...

Also....

Apple Looking To Acquire Tesla Motors [Report] - uInterview

 

[dave1949]

Also, having debt doesn't necessarily mean bankruptcy.

Being able to find funders for a new and growing business is a good sign. Out of all the others who would like access to those funds, the chosen recipient looks like the best choice of making some money, shares, percentage of ownership, whatever.

 

[dave1949]

Word in the Valley and confirmed on tonight's news cast is Apple is considering acquiring Tesla...

Also....

Apple Looking To Acquire Tesla Motors [Report] - uInterview

Oh crap. Here comes the iCar, the iBatt, ... :laughing:

I really don't see that as a good thing unless Apple is smart enough to stay away from the core engineering control.

 

[Loren49]

Tesla Bleeding Cash as Model S Hits Delays | New Car Pricing Insider Tesla Losses Tesla has racked up $1.3 billion in losses since 2008 and doesn稚 expect to break even until 2020. The carmaker has been blunt about the challenges and costs of high-volume manufacturing. In an earnings call with analysts on Feb. 11, Tesla CEO and co-founder Elon Musk said the company was going to 都pend staggering amounts of money as it delivers the first Model X SUV to customers this summer, builds the gigafactory for battery production and designs the Model 3 sedan, due in the second half of 2017. çš„f Apple is starting now it would take a couple of years to catch up to Tesla, said Ben Kallo, a San Francisco-based analyst for R.W. Baird. 摘ven after a car is designed, the competitors will have to source batteries in quantity and cost. Tesla is a couple of years ahead on this front. Thereç—´ another big challenge. This is a car weæ±*e talking about. After many decades of building cars, even the auto industryç—´ venerable players like Toyota and GM have stumbled at the seemingly simple task of making all of their vehicles free of safety defects. Yes, I do believe it, when you don't make money you go out of business. Looks like Apple might buy them with petty cash. Hope Apple doesn't get involved with products no one wants, like electric cars. HS

So you post an article from 2012!!!

Please don't ruin this thread. Let people peacefully discus some of the possibilities. Many of us know you are anti anything renewable.

Loren

 

[houstonscott]

So you post an article from 2012!!! Please don't ruin this thread. Let people peacefully discus some of the possibilities. Many of us know you are anti anything renewable. Loren

The only reason I post Tesla stuff is because every thread involving green energy references Tesla as some "church" like a clearing house of success and point of of all electrical engineering. They seem to be the holy grail of the battery break through that everyone has been waiting for and know is coming it's just a matter of time, but never comes. I just don't hold them in such regard. You couldn't give me a Tesla. Musk spends his time right down the street from me testing engines for SpaceX, he has moved on from Tesla a few years ago now. Battery technology has matured now, and further break throughs enough to make an electric car attractive (ranges 600+ miles, charges under 5minutes, weight under 80lbs) is not something likely to ever happen. The science is well understood. There's lots of cool new engineering in automobiles, just tesla is not making them. VW, BMW, and Bosch are the breakthrough companies right now. A VW Jetta TDi has a smaller lifetime carbon footprint than any hybrid or electric car. Lol. HS

 

[Jim Nelson]

Word in the Valley and confirmed on tonight's news cast is Apple is considering acquiring Tesla...

Also....

Apple Looking To Acquire Tesla Motors [Report] - uInterview

I can see Apple getting into the battery end of it but not the cars.

 

[Loren49]

The only reason I post Tesla stuff is because every thread involving green energy references Tesla as some "church" like a clearing house of success and point of of all electrical engineering. They seem to be the holy grail of the battery break through that everyone has been waiting for and know is coming it's just a matter of time, but never comes. I just don't hold them in such regard. You couldn't give me a Tesla. Musk spends his time right down the street from me testing engines for SpaceX, he has moved on from Tesla a few years ago now. Battery technology has matured now, and further break throughs enough to make an electric car attractive (ranges 600+ miles, charges under 5minutes, weight under 80lbs) is not something likely to ever happen. The science is well understood. There's lots of cool new engineering in automobiles, just tesla is not making them. VW, BMW, and Bosch are the breakthrough companies right now. A VW Jetta TDi has a smaller lifetime carbon footprint than any hybrid or electric car. Lol. HS

HS,
I think you miss my point. Please take your passion against Tesla and electric vehicles to a new thread and see if it survives outside of the Porch. This is a thread about grid tied and some standalone solar systems. Its a good thread with lots of positives and good information. Don't ruin it please.

Thank you,
Loren

 

[houstonscott]

HS, I think you miss my point. Please take your passion against Tesla and electric vehicles to a new thread and see if it survives outside of the Porch. This is a thread about grid tied and some standalone solar systems. Its a good thread with lots of positives and good information. Don't ruin it please. Thank you, Loren

I think as long as everyone is civil to each other here there is no chance of being removed. I have no agenda against electric cars or Tesla, I'm as interested as grid tie solar as anyone else, including yourself. Battery improvements are defiantly on the table, and Tesla is often mentioned in those discussions. Bringing people up to date on Tesla's murky future is of interest to many. It's touted as the company many believe a battery break through will come from. Ok. HS

 

[SirReal63]

I would hate to see it removed, moved or taken too far off track. To those of us just getting started in our solar adventure this thread has been very informative.

 

[houstonscott]

I would hate to see it removed, moved or taken too far off track. To those of us just getting started in our solar adventure this thread has been very informative.

Along those lines, is there a preferred roof mount attachment system that doesn't leak, and is trouble free. Has anyone had roof leaks with a roof mounted array. HS

 

[SirReal63]

I haven't mounted ours yet, I have the Ironridge XR1000 system and it should go right into the holes for the existing roof panels and into the metal framework. I do not expect any leaks as there will be no new holes and the existing ones do not leak. I will just need longer screws.

 

[dave1949]

I haven't mounted ours yet, I have the Ironridge XR1000 system and it should go right into the holes for the existing roof panels and into the metal framework. I do not expect any leaks as there will be no new holes and the existing ones do not leak. I will just need longer screws.

Some nice things about a pole mounted system:
The panel angle can be easily adjusted seasonally. There are three useful settings that are a good balance between simplicity and output: spring&fall, winter, summer.
The system can be installed and maintained without going up on a roof.
The panels don't cause leaks or have to be removed to do roof repair.

I would have preferred a pole mount but I couldn't find a location that co-existed with other things--like where the snow gets blown to.

 

[Redneck in training]

Some nice things about a pole mounted system:
The panel angle can be easily adjusted seasonally. There are three useful settings that are a good balance between simplicity and output: spring&fall, winter, summer.
The system can be installed and maintained without going up on a roof.
The panels don't cause leaks or have to be removed to do roof repair.

I would have preferred a pole mount but I couldn't find a location that co-existed with other things--like where the snow gets blown to.

It can be modeled that three axis tracker will increase production by about 30% (at 40th parallel). Also the distribution of the energy generation is better with sharp rise in the morning and longer peak afternoon. But there are trade offs.
1.) Mechanical complexity requiring maintenance. Specifically wind load will be array size limiting factor. Larger systems will require multiple trackers.
2.) Increased cost. The tracking mechanism and controls cost more than adding panels to get the production.
3.) Ground based trackers will have long cable feeding the point of connection adding additional cost for the cable and installation.

The roof mounted systems are, in general, cheapest to build. I figured that underlying structure for my panels added about $8000 ($0.33/W) to the cost of the system not counting cost of our own labor.

 

[SirReal63]

I had injtially wanted a pole mounted tracker but after dealing with the pole mounted panels for the solar well, I decided against that. They are not attractive and The Boss does care about aesthetics and it is also too easy to hit with vehicles, no one hits a roof mounted system except Santa Clause. The other and more reasonable reason is a pole mount tracker for 12 panels cost as much as the panels. Fortunately I have no shortage of South facing roof, once the guest house is filled, I still have a 20x70' space for panels.