Hour Meter Issue

[sycamore]

I have a 2012 Kubota MX5100. Last summer, while it was still under warranty but right near the end of the warranty period, I was running a few fairly long days doing some disking for mid contract management on CRP. I noticed the hour meter was not registering correctly. For example, I would have the tractor engine running for 8 hrs. and the meter would show 6.4. I checked it 2-3 times and it underreported about the same each time. On Aug 22, 2014 I sent an email to my sales guy alerting him to the problem and included the following: "But just wanted to flag this during the warranty period, which according to the post card I got ends on 8/28." I heard nothing. I sent another email around the end of the warranty period; nothing. Then I called. Yes, they had gotten the email but a work order had to be started in the shop (which apparently hadn't been done) and the warranty period was now over. And I was told that Kubota was really tough on this type of thing and there just wasn't much they could do. Really?

So, two questions.

First, is this how a dealer should handle a warranty issue? What has been the experience of others? Did I error in not making a bigger deal of it or showing up at the dealership stressing the urgency? I guess I expect a dealer to protect my interests, but maybe that is not typical? I also talked to the head guy in the shop about this hour meter issue when I picked up my B3200 from warranty work; this was in late August 2014. He had seen my email. He was going to check on things and give me a call that day or the next. It is now Jan. 13, 2015 and I am still waiting for my call. Not impressed.

And second, how should an hour meter function? I grew up on tractors and farm equipment and thought I knew. I always thought an hour meter recorded the length of time an engine was running. But I got some very confusing information in the process of talking to my Kubota dealership and calling around to some other implement dealers. I was told the hour meter might or might not record all the engine hours, with lots of mumbo jumbo reasons that made no sense to me. In reality, no one really seemed to be sure. So what is the story on what an hour meter is supposed to record?

Thanks much.

 

[murphy1244]

Some hour meters are measured at PTO speed.

 

[JerryK]

Like above post, most tractors measure low idle time and running at high idle [ PTO speed ] different. Basic hour meters that just run off 12volts usually just keep track of time. My Mahindra gets it's hour meter pulses from the alternator, which somehow lets it know if I am actually working or just sitting there picking my nose...

So, there is probably absolutly nothing wrong with your hour meter... Don't Worry.. Be Happy.. !!!!

 

[big bubba]

murphy 1244 is correct. my previous mx5000 series (assume yours is the same?) tach/hr meter ran mechanically off a cable. the system was designed to register hours @ engine rpm @ 540 pto delivery. depending on tractor model, this ranges from 2100 rpm or greater. so if you're idling @ say 1100 rpm, it will register less on the hr meter than actual time of engine running if that makes sense. where this comes into play is either your scheduled maintenance or purchasing a rental tractor that may have more actual clock hrs on the engine than the meter has recorded. sorry for confusing explanation, but that's my experience with my previous mx5000. you can always check it by a stop watch when you start your tractor, and compare it to your rpm/pto output @ 540 again, sorry for lengthy explanation of something simple

 

[s219]

There is nothing wrong with the meter -- it's RPM based. Not sure exactly what RPM gets you to the point where tractor hours = wall clock hours (on many tractors it's rpm needed for 540 at PTO), but you should not expect 8 wall clock hours of "variable RPM" use to show 8 tractor hours on the meter. That's not how they work on Kubota diesels.

 

[big bubba]

There is nothing wrong with the meter -- it's RPM based. Not sure exactly what RPM gets you to the point where tractor hours = wall clock hours (on many tractors it's rpm needed for 540 at PTO), but you should not expect 8 wall clock hours of "variable RPM" use to show 8 tractor hours on the meter. That's not how they work on Kubota diesels.

it depends if tach is mechanical (cable/ pto related) or electronic. so either the tractor model is engine pto/rpm related (mechanical) or turn on the ign swithch (electronic). my mx5000 was mechanical, my 8540 is electronic. that's all.

 

[skyhook]

Here's my take on this,, "excluding the 12 volt timers",
At idle, your meter will turn slower (slower rpm's) so one hour of real time may only be 1/2 hr on the meter. Bring the rpm's up to pto speed, this increases the speed also of the timer, so now a 1 hour real time will be closer to 1 hour meter time.
So when you see a tractor with 2000 hrs on it, it could have 3000 hours of "easy" actual real time, or it could have 2000 hours of "hard" high pto speed real time.:confused2:

 

[big bubba]

Here's my take on this,, "excluding the 12 volt timers",
At idle, your meter will turn slower (slower rpm's) so one hour of real time may only be 1/2 hr on the meter. Bring the rpm's up to pto speed, this increases the speed also of the timer, so now a 1 hour real time will be closer to 1 hour meter time.
So when you see a tractor with 2000 hrs on it, it could have 3000 hours of "easy" actual real time, or it could have 2000 hours of "hard" high pto speed real time.:confused2:

exactly

 

[Kanook]

I wasn't aware that some hour meters worked this way...Surprised that the dealer wouldn't know this however...You sure you want to let them work on your tractor?

 

[DK35vince]

And second, how should an hour meter function? I grew up on tractors and farm equipment and thought I knew. I always thought an hour meter recorded the length of time an engine was running. But I got some very confusing information in the process of talking to my Kubota dealership and calling around to some other implement dealers. I was told the hour meter might or might not record all the engine hours, with lots of mumbo jumbo reasons that made no sense to me. In reality, no one really seemed to be sure. So what is the story on what an hour meter is supposed to record?

Like the others have said, depends on the hour meter type.
Some of the electronic meters read clock hours.
I have had 2 tractors and both have been RPM based meters. 1 hour at/near PTO engine speed will read 1 hour on the meter. Running the engine below PTO speeds and the meter will clock hours slower.

 

[LD1]

As others said. Its an RPM compensating Tach.

MY PTO speed is 2400RPM. That is where 1hr running = 1 hr time.

In other words, (2400 x 60) means the engine has to make 144,000 revolutions to = 1 hr.

IF I run 2000 RPM, in 1 hr time that is only 120,000 revolutions. So it is only gonna register .83 hrs.

If I am idling at 600RPM for a full hour, thats only 36,000RPM, and thus would only register .25 hrs.

However, if I am running MAX (above PTO speed) of 2900RPM, in 1hr time it will spin 174,000 times and clock up 1.2 hrs

 

[macguyver13]

Does anyone know how you can find out which type of hour meter you have? Is it something you have to lookup, an easy check of some equipment, or more involved? Specifically, I'm wondering about my BX25.

 

[big bubba]

other than inquiring @ your dealer or calling central K, start your engine and let idle say 1000 rpm and start a stop watch & take a meter reading to the nearest .0 (believe meters read in 1/10 of hr.. after say 15 minutes of real clock time (or ideally longer), read the meter. if the recorded time is 1:1 with your stop watch, it's 12v (electric) if less than real time, it's pto based. or of course you can trace the cable/or wire to the engine connection. if you have a cable/mechanical based tach, in general the engine will have more real time hrs. on it than the hr meter will register. another thought is just to turn on the key w/o starting engine. not sure if engine needs to be running for an electric 12v hr meter to register. worth trying out....if this is the case, don't leave the key on overnight by mistake!!! if your meter is mechanical, this might be taken into consideration for scheduled maintenance or 2nd hand purchase... apologize for lengthy explanation.

 

[s219]

As others said. Its an RPM compensating Tach.

MY PTO speed is 2400RPM. That is where 1hr running = 1 hr time.

In other words, (2400 x 60) means the engine has to make 144,000 revolutions to = 1 hr.

IF I run 2000 RPM, in 1 hr time that is only 120,000 revolutions. So it is only gonna register .83 hrs.

If I am idling at 600RPM for a full hour, thats only 36,000RPM, and thus would only register .25 hrs.

However, if I am running MAX (above PTO speed) of 2900RPM, in 1hr time it will spin 174,000 times and clock up 1.2 hrs

:confused2: I think I just went back in time 120,000 revolutions after processing all that.

 

[DK35vince]

Does anyone know how you can find out which type of hour meter you have? Is it something you have to lookup, an easy check of some equipment, or more involved? Specifically, I'm wondering about my BX25.

I think most cable/mechanical tachometers are based on engine speed for hours.
Most electrical hour meter are real time

 

[JerryK]

If you have an electrical print..... IF the hour meter just has a 12 volt and a ground connection... it probably is time based like a clock. If it is mechanical, or gets pulses from the alternator like my Mahindra... it is probably ' RPM ' related. I would not loose sleep over it either way.... in the big scheme of life.... it's not THAT important.

 

[farmer2009]

The cable style is x hours at y engine speed as previously stated.

Electronic tachs come in 2 styles.
1 is a straight time. If ignition is on it counts hours. Leave ignition on over night and it adds 8,10,12 hours.

2 the electronic tach takes a reading of rpms from the altinator. It varies output usually in milliamps. Check repair manual as the specs will be in it.

 

[Kanook]

So what I have gotten out of this is.....Don' t use your tractor hour meter for billing purposes if you are charging for contracted work by the hour.

 

[LD1]

So what I have gotten out of this is.....Don' t use your tractor hour meter for billing purposes if you are charging for contracted work by the hour.

Unless you average at or above PTO RPM for the whole time on the job, you would be loosing money.

 

[oosik]

Rather than listing the gory details - my tractor works just like LD1 in post #11. Except that my engine PTO speed is 2140 rpm. It took about five years on my previous tractor - but finally one day I noticed that the hour meter was not in sinc with my wristwatch. Called the dealer and he explained it to me.

I guess its only a problem if you use the hour meter on the tractor to charge out time on a job.

Otherwise - its kind of like trying to find a method of keeping the dirt from sticking to your moldboard plow. Hey - just plow on!!