Long Term Care Insurance Recommendations?

[RedNeckGeek]

I'm still relatively young and healthy, but both of my parents died from complications related to strokes. That was a long, painful, down hill slide that was also very expensive. Fortunately they each had a long term care policy from GE that offset most, but not all, of the nursing home and in home care once they became invalids. I'm starting to look into long term care insurance for myself, and wondered if folks here had any experience to share? The kinds of coverage needed, premium costs, length of coverage, reliability and solvency of insuring agency, etc. I know this kind of coverage won't be cheap, but the thought of dieing broke in a county roach motel is even less appealing.

 

[JSanders10]

I've recently gotten quotes from my local State Farm agent on similar policies for my wife and I.
Yea, it's not cheap, we're in the low 50's for age, and of course it only gets more expensive when procuring the policies at an older age, say in five years from now, for us.

Before I do anything more on the matter, I am getting an independent agent to locate a couple insurers for quotes and will compare from there.

 

[KennyG]

Read the fine print carefully. I once asked an insurance agent about this and he recommended against it. Think about that, an insurance agent recommending not getting insurance.

The policies may have changed a lot but think about these points:
1. Can you afford long term care? If you need this you probably no longer need to own a home, pay real estate taxes, own a car etc. You may have a lot more available assets than you think.
2. Long term care is not a retirement home. You don't get the benefit unless it is medically necessary for you to be in a facility and not in a home care situation. And your doctor doesn't make that decision, the insurance companies doctor makes the decision. If you don't like it sue them and wait 5 years for a settlement.
3. Many long term care policies have cost and time limits. It may only cover part of the cost and it may only provide for 2 years coverage.

 

[Opti-Mist]

Genworth has a hybrid policy. It is basically a life insurance policy with a long term care rider. The worst one can do is to get your money back if you need to cash it in before collecting benefits. It is worth looking into. In my case I was looking for an alternative to the stock market as a place to park money so I took a one time premium policy which carries some guarantees.

 

[Parkanzky]

We have long-term care insurance available through work as an add-on policy. I considered it, but the maximum monthly benefit is fairly low, and the maximum lifetime payout was something like $35-40k. I can easily save that in our HSA or one of our retirement accounts and be better off "self-insured" than with the little coverage that policy provides. I didn't look at options from other insurance sources, because by the time I was done researching that option I was pretty sure I wasn't interested in a policy anymore.

 

[kenmac]

This is something I intend to check out in a couple yrs... My mom had to stay in a nursing home until she died as dad could no longer take care of her.. A long term stay in a nursing home , etc, would wipe out any retirement savings in short time and leave the spouse with hardly anything to live on.

 

[Complete Turf Care]

My parents (both in their 80's) have been paying for long term insurance for probably 25 years. Their health is not so good anymore, so they are currently getting to use the insurance.

Read the fine print before you buy!!!

Dad has always understood that they would pay $100 per day, but there is a clause somewhere in the fine print that says it would only pay $100 per day in very rare situations. It pays $80 per day. They also had a 100 day elimination period which meant about $8000 each. And, the insurance is supposed to pay for rehab, but one of the rehab hospitals where mom stayed for about 15 days was rejected as a rehab facility.

It will only pay if their caregivers are 'approved by medicare', or certified, or licensed or some BS. Therefore, we have had to hire an agency to provide sitters for them, and they are $20 per hour which at 24 hours a day is $480 per day. Luckily, the insurance pays $80 per day for each of them, but it still cost them about $320 per day, or $2240 per week or $116,480 per year out of pocket.

If this continues for another 3 years, their assets will be all gone.

We are in the process of moving them to an 'assisted living' home which will cost less. The insurance will continue to pay for the assisted living, and they have no maximum lifetime benefit.

Although $160 a day is a significant amount, it doesn't nearly cover their needs.

 

[Fossil Farm]

Please be very careful with LTC Insurance. Check the companies record with your states attorney general
and complaints on payment. Here are a few concerns for you to investigate -

1. Our friends have spent over $30,000 on LTC premiums and this fall got a letter from the company that
their premiums will triple next year if they choose to continue coverage. They have not filed a claim to date
on the insurance, the company is just jacking up their rates.

2. A friends father had to go into a nursing home for medical reasons. The LTC insurance company said his
condition did not qualify for coverage under the policy they had purchased. Don't know the specifics, but
they had no recourse.

3. Grandfather had LTC insurance, and each year the items and cost they company covered decreased.

It may be a good deal for some situations, but do your homework. Sad to say, but cash in the mattress
and going on Medicaid is looking better all the time.

 

[mbohuntr]

Please be very careful with LTC Insurance. Check the companies record with your states attorney general
and complaints on payment. Here are a few concerns for you to investigate -

1. Our friends have spent over $30,000 on LTC premiums and this fall got a letter from the company that
their premiums will triple next year if they choose to continue coverage. They have not filed a claim to date
on the insurance, the company is just jacking up their rates.

2. A friends father had to go into a nursing home for medical reasons. The LTC insurance company said his
condition did not qualify for coverage under the policy they had purchased. Don't know the specifics, but
they had no recourse.

3. Grandfather had LTC insurance, and each year the items and cost they company covered decreased.

It may be a good deal for some situations, but do your homework. Sad to say, but cash in the mattress
and going on Medicaid is looking better all the time.

The very reasons why I told the agent "No thanks!" I'll pay in more than they'll cover....

 

[Complete Turf Care]

My parents (both in their 80's) have been paying for long term insurance for probably 25 years. Their health is not so good anymore, so they are currently getting to use the insurance.

Read the fine print before you buy!!!

Dad has always understood that they would pay $100 per day, but there is a clause somewhere in the fine print that says it would only pay $100 per day in very rare situations. It pays $80 per day. They also had a 100 day elimination period which meant about $8000 each. And, the insurance is supposed to pay for rehab, but one of the rehab hospitals where mom stayed for about 15 days was rejected as a rehab facility.

It will only pay if their caregivers are 'approved by medicare', or certified, or licensed or some BS. Therefore, we have had to hire an agency to provide sitters for them, and they are $20 per hour which at 24 hours a day is $480 per day. Luckily, the insurance pays $80 per day for each of them, but it still cost them about $320 per day, or $2240 per week or $116,480 per year out of pocket.

If this continues for another 3 years, their assets will be all gone.

We are in the process of moving them to an 'assisted living' home which will cost less. The insurance will continue to pay for the assisted living, and they have no maximum lifetime benefit.

Although $160 a day is a significant amount, it doesn't nearly cover their needs.

We have also learned that for medicare to pay for a nursing home, they must have no assets left. And, if you choose to transfer their assets to any heirs, it must be done at least 5 years before.

I suggest anyone who is close to this situation, contact an attorney right away to get things set up. And be sure you use an attorney familiar with this sort of thing. The first 2 attorneys we used didn't do anything to protect their assets. We are on the third attorney, but I fear we may be too late.

Also, their long term insurance is with John Hancock

 

[Fossil Farm]

We have also learned that for medicare to pay for a nursing home, they must have no assets left. And, if you choose to transfer their assets to any heirs, it must be done at least 5 years before.

I suggest anyone who is close to this situation, contact an attorney right away to get things set up. And be sure you use an attorney familiar with this sort of thing. The first 2 attorneys we used didn't do anything to protect their assets. We are on the third attorney, but I fear we may be too late.

Also, their long term insurance is with John Hancock

Medicare only pays for nursing home care for rehab, such as after hip surgery or a stroke for about 90 days. The patient must show
daily improvement or they will cut their benefit.

Medicaid pays for nursing home care for the indigent. You can only have $1500 in the bank, no whole life insurance (has cash value),
and other requirements. Your spouse can stay in the home, but they can put a lien on it for partial payment when it is sold. As said,
they go back 5 years to see what happened to your money before you qualify for Medicaid.

Medicare and Medicaid are two different programs.

 

[zzvyb6]

I have a long term care insurance policy. I'm planning on needing $10,000 a month when the time comes. That may not even be enough in 15 years when I might be ready for it. Even $6000 per month now days barely gets you a fresh smelling room.

 

[Complete Turf Care]

Medicare only pays for nursing home care for rehab, such as after hip surgery or a stroke for about 90 days. The patient must show
daily improvement or they will cut their benefit.

Medicaid pays for nursing home care for the indigent. You can only have $1500 in the bank, no whole life insurance (has cash value),
and other requirements. Your spouse can stay in the home, but they can put a lien on it for partial payment when it is sold. As said,
they go back 5 years to see what happened to your money before you qualify for Medicaid.

Medicare and Medicaid are two different programs.

You are correct. I get medicare and medicaid confused.

 

[turnkey4099]

I have a long term care insurance policy. I'm planning on needing $10,000 a month when the time comes. That may not even be enough in 15 years when I might be ready for it. Even $6000 per month now days barely gets you a fresh smelling room.

Just went through the costs of care for my disabled wife. Fortunately I am a veteran with Tricare for Life which pays full anything that medicare has authorized and doesn't cover it self. Catch is that medicare has to 'authorize' it first.

Wife spent 5 years in gradual decline with a rare form of intestinal cancer, not diagnosed as such until near the end. She had so many other problems the symptoms hid the cancer problem. Resulted in many hospital stays to cure infections then rehab. Medicare will pay 100 days rehab provided doc says it is needed. After that it (and Tricare) don't pay a dime).

Costs: Rehab on my dime was $7,000-$9,000 a month. because she needed full time nursing care.

Nursing home again on my dime would have been $5,000 a month and I suspect it would have been little more than a bed and meals.

She died before the system bankrupted me.

Financial advisor explained the facts of life: If you or your partner need such costly treatment they well take EVERYTHING you have minus house and car and your social security.

Harry K

 

[Parkanzky]

Just went through the costs of care for my disabled wife. Fortunately I am a veteran with Tricare for Life which pays full anything that medicare has authorized and doesn't cover it self. Catch is that medicare has to 'authorize' it first.

Wife spent 5 years in gradual decline with a rare form of intestinal cancer, not diagnosed as such until near the end. She had so many other problems the symptoms hid the cancer problem. Resulted in many hospital stays to cure infections then rehab. Medicare will pay 100 days rehab provided doc says it is needed. After that it (and Tricare) don't pay a dime).

Costs: Rehab on my dime was $7,000-$9,000 a month. because she needed full time nursing care.

Nursing home again on my dime would have been $5,000 a month and I suspect it would have been little more than a bed and meals.

She died before the system bankrupted me.

Financial advisor explained the facts of life: If you or your partner need such costly treatment they well take EVERYTHING you have minus house and car and your social security.

Harry K

I'm very sorry for your loss.

If you don't mind clarifying, it would be a useful data point for my financial planning. It sounds like being in very poor health will cost ~$6-10k per month, per person. Having been through it, is that your assessment as well?

 

[k0ua]

You are correct. I get medicare and medicaid confused.

Don't feel bad, most of my prospective client could not tell you the difference. I sell Medicare supplements. What people don't know about Medicare would fill volumes.
We study this stuff every day, and still learn new things, everyday. LTC is very expensive, and requires special training to sell. I cannot quote it, but my Wife can. It also requires re-certification at frequent intervals. But if you need to know something about Medicare, I can fix you right up.

 

[k0ua]

I also sell cancer policies, and since 1 in 2 of us males and 1 in 3 of females are going to get cancer, No if's, and's or but's, I suggest those of you who do not have a policy take one out, while you don't have cancer. Selling insurance to healthy people is a rough business. I have only been in this game for a while, but I am learning fast. I get calls every day from people wanting dental insurance because the dentist has given them an estimate for major work that is going to cost some money.. They are pretty surprised when we say and "this coverage has a 3 month waiting period for basic benefits (fillings and extractions) and a 12 month waiting period for major benefits (root canals, crowns etc" They always say "but I need this done now!".

Everyone is insured whether they have a policy issued by an insurance company or whether they have decided to "self insure". And making no decision is still a decision.

 

[turnkey4099]

I'm very sorry for your loss.

If you don't mind clarifying, it would be a useful data point for my financial planning. It sounds like being in very poor health will cost ~$6-10k per month, per person. Having been through it, is that your assessment as well?

Yes, IF the person is in a "Full Nursing Care" (I think that is the term for a rehab center) or a nursing home. You can expect costs to run in that range.

Harry K

 

[Complete Turf Care]

My parents are waiting on their apartment to be ready at the assisted living home.

I ran some numbers yesterday and it will be about $9900 LESS per month (out of pocket) for them to stay in the assisted living home, compared to when they have 24 hour care in their own home.

That is IF the Long Term Care policy pays what the agent is saying it will pay. ($80 per day each)

 

[KennyG]

Another thing to look carefully at is whether the payments are indexed for inflation. If you buy a policy today that pays $80 per day and need it 25 years from now, how much will that be worth?