engine: tuning more HP?

[TSO]

The Massey 1652, 1655, 1660 all use a 3.0L 4cyl Iseki diesel, but produce 52, 55 & 60 HP. Haven't received a real answer from the Massey dealers I've contacted, and no responses in the MF forum, so..........

Anyone know if (and how) the 1652 could be tuned to make 55 or 60 HP?

Thanks in advance.

 

[Johnny g]

I don't have a definite answer but could be camshaft with different lift and or duration or larger valves and or smaller compression chambers to create higher compression ratio.

 

[oldnslo]

Are all of these HP figures taken at the same RPM? Is this engine HP or PTO HP?

 

[TSO]

I don't have specs for the 1660...

But the 1652 & 55 are as follows:

Compression Ration (same): 21.5-1
Bore (both): 97mm
Stroke (both): 100mm
Displacement (both): 180.29cu/in
Rated speed (both): 2500
Max Tq @ 1500 rpm: 1652=128.7 ft/lb, 1655= 134 ft/lb
Max Tq @ 2500 rpm: 1652=109.7 ft/lb, 1655= 117.8 ft/lb
Tq rise: 1652= 17%, 1655= 13%
Engine HP gross @ 2500 rpm: 1652= 52.2, 1655=56.1

Only other difference I can see between the 1652 & 1655 is the wheelbase. 1655 has +1" wheelbase. Not sure why.

Again, I don't have specs on the 1660.

 

[Gary Fowler]

Back during my farming days, HP was turned up by increasing the output of the injection pump. This is only good so far as the naturally aspirated engines can draw in enough air to burn the extra fuel. If you have a turbocharged engine, you can get a bit more power before it again starves for air.

An injection pump overall business should be able to turn your I.P. up to the max needed to produce at least 10 HP more than stock.

I was talking to a Mahindra dealer and their new tractors have an ECU (engine control unit) computer that might do the job just like diesel trucks do by reprogramming the computer controller.

 

[AGRIMAN]

Most small HP differences within the same engine family are done with the injection pump setting (T3) and within the software (T4).

If your tractor is T3, look on the back of the injector pump and you should see a set screw with a tamper proof wire through it. I don't recommend you do it, but turning that screw will add HP. Remember, if you cut that wire, your warranty is gone.

These HP jumps are done by the manufactures for pricing reasons and in MOST cases the tractors are the same. You may want to check and be sure there are no differences in the transmissions and front axles between the models.

 

[wmonroe]

Is the engine turbo charged? My guess is that the injection pump output is increased to give the hp increase. Instead of or in addition to injection pump output changes though there might be a different turbo, waste gate setting, injectors, delivery valves, timing, piston cooling jets, head gasket (to withstand higher boost). Just a few things that might be different but not easily detectable. I'm sure they try to make the engines as standard as possible though to keep production cost down.

 

[TSO]

Is the engine turbo charged? My guess is that the injection pump output is increased to give the hp increase. Instead of or in addition to injection pump output changes though there might be a different turbo, waste gate setting, injectors, delivery valves, timing, piston cooling jets, head gasket (to withstand higher boost). Just a few things that might be different but not easily detectable. I'm sure they try to make the engines as standard as possible though to keep production cost down.

No, those are all naturally aspirated.

 

[jaydee325]

The Massey 1652, 1655, 1660 all use a 3.0L 4cyl Iseki diesel, but produce 52, 55 & 60 HP. Haven't received a real answer from the Massey dealers I've contacted, and no responses in the MF forum, so..........

Anyone know if (and how) the 1652 could be tuned to make 55 or 60 HP?

Thanks in advance.

Sorry TSO, can't provide specific's you ask for. I've also goggled around on the different diesel engines used in CUTs and found scant info.

I can however provide a little historical experience.

I attended Ferris State University's heavy equipment service school back in the late 70's. I still remember my fuel injection professor recommending against "turning up the screw" to make more power in a diesel engine. There was even a fuel injection shop in western Michigan who would not do this. This may have had more to do with emissions requirements though (yes, emissions requirements were just getting started back then!)

I've seen many different engines used in equipment ranging from trucks, to equipment, to motorhomes which all have the same block/bore/stroke with wide differences in power output. But, having the same block/bore/stroke specifications does not mean in all cases that the design of the fuel delivery system is the only difference.

Making more power means more heat. Sometimes a lot of it. So, the higher output engines will have enhanced cooling systems such as oil jet cooling for pistons and larger radiators, heavier duty pistons, and more heat tolerant exhaust valves (just name a few).

My recommendation is to not "hot rod" your Massy for more power.

Looks like you need to upgrade again?:laughing:

 

[TSO]

My recommendation is to not "hot rod" your Massy for more power.

Looks like you need to upgrade again?:laughing:

I wouldn't tune up my 1648... It's a smaller engine, already tuned up from 43 horse in the 1643.

I love this tractor. The size, weight, capabilities... Are excellent for the work I do with it. However, I occasionally run out of HP (mainly while stump grinding). The next step up in HP in THIS tractor is the 1652/55/60, however only the 1652 came with HST, the others were shuttle (or PowerShuttle) only. There's a few used 1652's out there, but I would only consider upgrading if I could bump the HP higher, because in stock form, it's only a 3 PTO HP jump from my 1648, and probably not worth the jump.

 

[Jerry/MT]

The Massey 1652, 1655, 1660 all use a 3.0L 4cyl Iseki diesel, but produce 52, 55 & 60 HP. Haven't received a real answer from the Massey dealers I've contacted, and no responses in the MF forum, so..........

Anyone know if (and how) the 1652 could be tuned to make 55 or 60 HP?

Thanks in advance.

For a diesel you can increase the fuel delivery and increase the max power output. This often referred to as "turning up the pump". This results in higher peak pressures and temperatures and there must be sufficient design margin in the affected components to be able to tolerate the increased loads and temperatures that result. Otherwise durability of the engine is compromised. Tractor engines are generally de-rated in order to have long operational lives. Increasing the HP without resigning the components cuts into the durability margins that are targeted in the de-rate.

Another way is to use a turbo to increase airflow through the engine. Again the loads and temperatures go up so the components must have sufficient design margin to be able to tolerate the increases.

Increases in compression ratio can also increase the power output.

Other ways are changing cam characteristics (increased lift and duration) IF the cam has not otherwise been optimized for this all ready in the basic engine.

These methods apply to a fixed displacement engine. You can also ways increase displacement (by boring it out) and increase HP but your question was specific to an existing engine.

 

[Gary Fowler]

I don't think you would have any trouble boosting a 1652 up to a 1660 but then if you are buying used, likely there isn't much difference in price between a used 1652 and a 1660 so perhaps the way to go would be to just look for a 1660 at a good price. There may not be much difference at all once you pay a shop to turn up the I.P and dyno the engine which would be the only safe way to do it. Too much risk in just cranking the screw up without knowing how much you increased the HP.

 

[TSO]

I don't think you would have any trouble boosting a 1652 up to a 1660 but then if you are buying used, likely there isn't much difference in price between a used 1652 and a 1660 so perhaps the way to go would be to just look for a 1660 at a good price. There may not be much difference at all once you pay a shop to turn up the I.P and dyno the engine which would be the only safe way to do it. Too much risk in just cranking the screw up without knowing how much you increased the HP.

Can't... In the 16xx series, they didn't offer the 1655 (shuttle) or 1660 (PowerShuttle) in HST. I need HST for what I do, no way around it. If I could have PowerShuttle, I'd skip CUT'S all together and move up to the next series.

So, I'm stuck with my 1648 (2.2L) or the 1652 (3.0L) to keep HST.

If I jumped to tier 4 (17xx series) they now offer the 1758 in HST (59 HP)... But that's way too much more money to justify the jump.

So... The only way I'd jump to 1652 right now is if I found one at around "break even" pricing, and IF it could be tuned up for more HP like it is in the 1655/1660.

Btw, had a Massey dealer recently say that they couldn't turn it up there, because it's "set from the factory that way" and it would require tuning the pump and an ECU flash.

Thoughts on that anyone?

 

[Ed of all trades]

Back in the early 80's I was tractor shopping and went to the massey dealer. He was waiting on another customer and gave me a some papers on the tractors I was looking at. The 255 and 265 were the same tractor just different HP. I asked him what the difference was and he said the pump and injectors. There was over $2000 difference in price and he said he would turn a 255 up for $200 so I got the 255 and after the year wait was up He turned it up for me. Put 265 injectors on it and turned up the pump from 52 HP to 74HP. I never had a single time that I wished I had not turned it up. Pulled better and did more work per gallon of fuel. Ran it for 10 years and sold it when I sold the farm. Find a tractor mechanic that has a hydro hp tester. hooks to the pto and uses water to test hp and get him to do it for you. I would not do it without the mechanic having a tester.

 

[wmonroe]

What is computer controlled on that tractor. With some common sense tractors can be easily turned up for more power, my neighbor has turned up all of his tractors and hasn't had any issues for years and thousands of hours but he uses common sense operating them (tractors are all diesel, IH 986 and 1086, ford 3000 and 5000, case 1070?, McCormick CX95, JD 4440).

 

[dieselcrawler]

Pull a Fred and put a turbo on it! That's my plan to up the ooomph of my lil 3005.

 

[TSO]

What is computer controlled on that tractor.

I'm not sure ... I was thinking they were speaking out of their rear when they told me it would need an ECU flash

 

[AKfish]

No interest in a brand war here but... If you really need HST and want more HP - there are a few other colors that meet those criteria.

AKfish

 

[TSO]

No interest in a brand war here but... If you really need HST and want more HP - there are a few other colors that meet those criteria.

AKfish

Very true. But for a bunch of reasons not meant for this thread, I'd prefer to stay with the Massey.

 

[wmonroe]

I'm not sure ... I was thinking they were speaking out of their rear when they told me it would need an ECU flash

I'm not familiar with the Massey but I would agree. I didn't think any of the manufacturers went to electronic controlled engines till tier 4. If it is a mechanical injection pump then a flash wouldn't be needed since the ecu has no control over fueling.