Buying Advice Overwhelmed by All the Options!

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Park, the trouble you are having is because there s so much stuff out there that overlaps, one can't make a clear cut decision especially when one has no experience with the tractors they keep looking at except at the dealer. Here is what I think you are doing well, 1. Buying everything you need at once. 2. Being deliberate about your purchase. 3. Trying out different tractors. You need real world results from others who are doing the same work as you are planning. 4. You keep posting. Sooner or later you'll get the info you need to make the best decision when you "see the light". 5. Getting a front mount blower. 6. Comparing dealerships.

I've included pics of my old JD 750 in my woods with it's whopping 17 hp. This is about the size (dimension wise) between the larger B series or smaller L series. I never had trouble negotiating these woods with this tractor and as you can see, it has little trouble clearing a 27" snow. There is also a pic of my present tractor. It too has no trouble negotiating my woods either. This is more the size of the L series and works 4 times faster than the JD because it weighs a thousand pounds more. It has no trouble pulling out 12" thick crowns of 60' tall oaks out of dense woods cracking branches as it goes. This tree would have taken me 4 to 5 trips with the JD instead of two with the larger tractor. That's the woods part.

The snow part would be (for me anyway): what tractor can i get a front mount on. 2. Do I like driving it? 3. Is changing over implements relatively easy? It may seem easy for me to say: forget costs. What you "need" is way more important because you're gonna have it a long time. What is 3 grand either way if you compromise toward price and find you are not tickled pink about your purchase. What you need now is for someone with a smallish tractor sending you pics of how much snow they can blow away. I think you'd be presently surprised.
Oh yeah: I forgot to say "chains are the great equalizer making a smaller tractor act a bit bigger"

 

[varmint]

Simple suggestion: check Craig's list, eBay and the classified ads on this site for used tractors- it won't take long before you can pick out potentially interesting ones to actually look into. Around here, Messicks in S. Penna. often has good machines for sale. Maybe there's a similar dealer where you are? The Kioti tractors look interesting, too...

 

[bigcut]

I've been reading the enormous thread on flails on this forum (I'm to about page 95). I do see the 4 or 5 PTO HP/ft numbers for the flail thrown around pretty often, but then some say that you want more for cutting scrub or brush. I'm looking to use this flail to clear the brush from the small woods we have. It is very thick and overgrown. So I'm reading the thread trying to figure out if the 2032R's 23.5 PTO HP is "good enough," or if a flail mower is even the right tool for that job.\

Par

I am also having a really hard time buying a tractor.

I like the control layout and "feel" of the Deere (just my impression/personal preference), and it seems much easier to switch from snowblower to loader and back on that one than on the Kubota. The Deere is also a bit (~$1k) cheaper than the Kubota. Deere's mid-mount mower looks nicer and is easier to put on and off than Kubota's, in case I end up with one of those.

However, the B3350 has 1.5 more engine HP and 3 more PTO HP. The front loader and rear hitch both lift a bit more than the Deere (Although the Deere has a higher breakout force on the loader?). Even though it's a bit of a pain to put the front sub-frame on and off, the Kubota snowblower is 9" wider, which seems like a very good thing.

I know a lot of you guys are reading this and thinking, "It's just a baby tractor! Buy one and be done with it!" But it's hard because I don't have a good feel for what these power levels and capabilities will mean in the real world. If I could buy the 2032R and know that I wouldn't wish I had those extra 3 PTO horse (10% more) or find out that the loader is over-taxed trying to pull reasonably sized logs out of the woods or using the forks to lift random things, then I think my decision would be made.

Parkanzky,
I understand your concern over adquate PTO hp to power your Flail. I've also read all the posts on Flails that you referenced. It is extensive yet worthwhile info. There is a gentleman "IslandTractor" who was a significant contributor on the subject of Flails; their use, limitations, and the types of hammers based on the job at hand.

I suggest you e-mail him and share some of your concerns over HP, mowing, etc. I'm confident he can offer you sage advice to aid you in decision making. He was a key contributor in those posts and very pragmatic with first hand experience as opposed to theory. See what he has to say. I'd rate him as a "Flail Expert."
John
John

 

[Parkanzky]

Simple suggestion: check Craig's list, eBay and the classified ads on this site for used tractors- it won't take long before you can pick out potentially interesting ones to actually look into. Around here, Messicks in S. Penna. often has good machines for sale. Maybe there's a similar dealer where you are? The Kioti tractors look interesting, too...

I have been watching Craigslist and tractorhouse.com. There haven't been many things that really fit my criteria popping up on my searches. I did call about that L3130H with a blower. It's on loan to the township right now while theirs is in for service, but they hope to have it back so I can look at it Saturday.

Kioti is out because the nearest dealer is 55 miles from my house. I'd rather have parts/service available within ~25 miles.

 

[Parkanzky]

I would suggest that $18K is pretty high for that L3130- I bought a 2007 L3130, with just over a 1000 hours, and the larger quick attach bucket, for $12,500. I have no idea about the snowblower's value, but forks can be had for $500 new. My tractor is very clean, no damage of any sort, and I have no doubt I could sell it for what I have in it. I did spend a couple days cleaning it up, etc., but it looks like a 100 hour machine. Of course, being a follower of Paul Shorts, I have done some small mods to it, light lighting, voltmeter, etc. The only photo I have available right now is the bucket, after I cleaned it up and repainted it.

View attachment 391886

Thanks for the info. The snowblower (and all the hardware to attach it) is around $4200 new including the bracket to mount it on the tractor. It sounds like that tractor is overpriced.

 

[Parkanzky]

I realized that some pictures might help everyone understand what I'm trying to do.

This picture of the driveway was taken looking toward the house from the road:

At the end of what you can see in the picture above, the driveway forks:


It's 400' from the road to the fork, and each leg going to the garages is a bit over 100'. The drive widens to a wide three-car garage up-top and there's a turn-around to the left that you can't see in the photograph. The lower drive goes to the two-car door you can see and extends a bit beyond the drive as a small turn-around.

So that is what I'm looking to clear snow off of. It's hard to tell from the picture, but the drive to the upper garage climbs a pretty steep hill.

You can see that the woods on the right side of the drive as you go toward the house come right to the driveway.

This picture was taken from the drive in front of the lower garage looking into the "front lawn" (toward the street):



And this picture was taken from the back deck looking down at the current "landscaping."



What I want to do is clean up the thorny brush and vines that are everywhere, cut up and remove all the dead/down trees, get rid of the logs they're using to edge the "back yard" and clean all that mulch out of there. Then we are going to put a large paver or stamped concrete patio in behind the house in two or three tiers and put prarie grass or some kind of walkable ground-cover in a strip along the drive and out 12 or 16' from where those logs are right now all the way around the house.

So, with all that in mind, what would you buy if that were your ~4 acre property? Do you think that the B3350 from Kubota or the JD 2032R with front-mounted snowblowers would be up to the work I have in mind?

 

[varmint]

Sure, with loaded rear tires, rear chains for when the going gets greasy, and you'd be able to do anything you need done. Bigger equals faster, not better. An L model will weigh more, provide more traction.

 

[Parkanzky]

Sure, with loaded rear tires, rear chains for when the going gets greasy, and you'd be able to do anything you need done. Bigger equals faster, not better. An L model will weigh more, provide more traction.

Alright, that settles it. I'm going to drive those two tractors, pick one, and get my order in (As long as I don't come across something used in the meantime).

Thanks for the help everyone!

 

[Poopdeck Pappy]

When I bought my Kioti last summer, I created a spreadsheet of 5 or 6 tractors I was considering with all the features, prices, etc. I eliminated a couple of them pretty quickly.

I then got it down to 3, and eventually to 2, and I just couldn't decide between them. I had paralysis by analysis.

I finally decided that there was not a "perfect" tractor, and either one I picked would involve certain compromises. So I just picked one, based mainly on the dealer that was closest to me, who has been in business a long time.

I've been very happy with my tractor, but I'm sure I would have been equally happy with the other one.

My point is: Drive both of them long enough to get a feel for what you like and don't like, and how they fit you. Research the dealerships to find out whether their service departments are good, bad or in between. Then pick a tractor and trust your judgment. Chances are very high that you will love whichever one you pick.

The important thing is to pick one. As they say, halitosis is better than no breath at all.

 

[coobie]

When I bought my Kioti last summer, I created a spreadsheet of 5 or 6 tractors I was considering with all the features, prices, etc. I eliminated a couple of them pretty quickly.

I then got it down to 3, and eventually to 2, and I just couldn't decide between them. I had paralysis by analysis.

I finally decided that there was not a "perfect" tractor, and either one I picked would involve certain compromises. So I just picked one, based mainly on the dealer that was closest to me, who has been in business a long time.

I've been very happy with my tractor, but I'm sure I would have been equally happy with the other one.

My point is: Drive both of them long enough to get a feel for what you like and don't like, and how they fit you. Research the dealerships to find out whether their service departments are good, bad or in between. Then pick a tractor and trust your judgment. Chances are very high that you will love whichever one you pick.

The important thing is to pick one. As they say, halitosis is better than no breath at all.

Great points pappy,I fully agree.A good tractor with a good servicing dealer after the sale is paramount.

 

[jeff9366]

What I want to do is clean up the thorny brush and vines that are everywhere, cut up and remove all the dead/down trees.

So, with all that in mind, what would you buy if that were your ~4 acre property? Do you think that the B3350 from Kubota or the JD 2032R with front-mounted snowblowers would be up to the work I have in mind?

The vines are wild grapes, Vitus rotundfolia, and Virgina Creeper. The thorny brush/vines looks mostly like Smilax, which is hard to eradicate, plus some wild climbing rose. Go to your local Tractor Supply Co. (TSC), Rural King or Southern Co-op and buy 2-1/2 gallons of an herbicide concentrate labeled for "briars". You will have several choices. Herbicide for vine eradication must be applied while vines are actively in growth, so spray before the weather turns cool.

Chop up what you can first with the Flail Mower or Bush Hog, then spray residual verdure around tree trunks.

You have a big job. Be sure to wear long pants, long sleeves, gloves, a hat and safety glasses and bathe when you are done spraying; do not wait until the end of the day to bathe.



Both the B3350 and 2032R are entirely adequate for four acres plus snow.

Bigger/heavier equals faster, not better. An L model, best of all a 'Grand L' model, will weigh more, be more stable and provide more traction.

In January 2013 I paid $27,500 for my 'Grand L' 3560 tractor-loader with following options: LA805 loader, SSQA L2296 HD RB bucket, two 5/16" chain grab hooks welded on bucket, R4 tires and Draft Control. (Draft Control = I plow) No sales tax in Florida. SOME TRACTOR!

Like Pappy, I spreadsheet important purchases in process of consideration. I calculate cost per pound in addition to entering factory specs.

 

[varmint]

Having a "close" and "quality" (well, maybe not the right word, but you all know what I mean) dealer for whatever you buy is an interesting topic in itself. Our "local" Kubota dealer is someone best avoided, IMHO, and the dealer I would like to have is located maybe an hour away, or more. That said, I have never, in 15 years of owning a Kubota, never been inconvenienced. I am not a farmer, and if the tractor is down for few days, no problem (unless I am dealing with a blizzard, but that's another matter) so getting parts, if I needed them, by UPS is okay. And, I have never been faced with a service issue I couldn't deal with myself. I prefer to change my own fluids and filters, probably like most TbN guys. So, a close dealer may, or may not, be important to everyone. As for cost-per-pound, I do that for cars... a Ferrari always looses to a Toyota that way. Or maybe it's just my finances?

 

[Parkanzky]

Having a "close" and "quality" (well, maybe not the right word, but you all know what I mean) dealer for whatever you buy is an interesting topic in itself. Our "local" Kubota dealer is someone best avoided, IMHO, and the dealer I would like to have is located maybe an hour away, or more. That said, I have never, in 15 years of owning a Kubota, never been inconvenienced. I am not a farmer, and if the tractor is down for few days, no problem (unless I am dealing with a blizzard, but that's another matter) so getting parts, if I needed them, by UPS is okay. And, I have never been faced with a service issue I couldn't deal with myself. I prefer to change my own fluids and filters, probably like most TbN guys. So, a close dealer may, or may not, be important to everyone. As for cost-per-pound, I do that for cars... a Ferrari always looses to a Toyota that way. Or maybe it's just my finances?

There are two Kubota dealers equidistant from me. A friend (who has a Kubota) and I went to the first to look at tractors and had a _horrible_ experience. I went to the other dealership a couple days later and was very impressed. We also have a couple of JD dealers near here. I really like the people I've worked with at the first one I visited. I talked to the other dealership on the phone and they gave me a lower quote for what I want, but I don't really have a feel for them otherwise.

 

[Parkanzky]

As for cost-per-pound, I do that for cars... a Ferrari always looses to a Toyota that way. Or maybe it's just my finances?

Also, I've been having a hard time wrapping my head around "heavier is better." I'm a car guy, and if you look closely at my second driveway picture you can see my Lotus Elise hiding in the garage. My mindset shopping for that was quite different!

 

[arrow]

Also, I've been having a hard time wrapping my head around "heavier is better." I'm a car guy, and if you look closely at my second driveway picture you can see my Lotus Elise hiding in the garage. My mindset shopping for that was quite different!

Ah, the old HP to weight ratio. In a head to head and the same gearing, which vehicle would finish the 1/4 mile first : A 5000 lb 500 hp one, or a 2000 lb 200 hp car? . Which vehicle would you use to tow a 7000 lb trailer load. Tractors are like the latter only with not that much HP.

 

[TSO]

Also, I've been having a hard time wrapping my head around "heavier is better." I'm a car guy, and if you look closely at my second driveway picture you can see my Lotus Elise hiding in the garage. My mindset shopping for that was quite different!

Tractors aren't like that. They're not built for speed, they're built to work. Gearing is low, and it's meant for pulling. The more weight you have on your tractor, the more traction you'll have to push/pull, and the more stability you'll have while carrying a load. You'll find most folks here will tell you that "you'll run out of traction long before you'll run out of HP." My tractor weighs around 6000+ lbs, and even when I have my nearly 1000lb back blade on, and a 2000lb load on the loader ... The tractor can still spin the tires.

That doesn't necessarily apply with regards to PTO power, but then again, the heavier the tractor, the better it will handle a 3pt implement (not getting thrown around by the weight of the implement).

 

[Parkanzky]

Tractors aren't like that. They're not built for speed, they're built to work. Gearing is low, and it's meant for pulling. The more weight you have on your tractor, the more traction you'll have to push/pull, and the more stability you'll have while carrying a load. You'll find most folks here will tell you that "you'll run out of traction long before you'll run out of HP." My tractor weighs around 6000+ lbs, and even when I have my nearly 1000lb back blade on, and a 2000lb load on the loader ... The tractor can still spin the tires.

That doesn't necessarily apply with regards to PTO power, but then again, the heavier the tractor, the better it will handle a 3pt implement (not getting thrown around by the weight of the implement).

I don't know what my father-in-law's Case weighs, but he and I removed the CaCl2 filled rear wheels/tires (to change spacing of some kind, IIRC) and I remember that they were much taller than I am and how much careful work it was to jack that tractor up, remove the wheels and make the changes, and then get everything installed. I think that if we'd have dropped one of the wheels onto its side we would have had a very hard time getting it back up again with the loader on his small tractor.

Of course, he could pick up whatever new tractor I choose with his loader and he carries big beech trees out of the woods on the 3PH, so all that weight is definitely getting him something.

I have a very distinct memory of the time I was on three wheels in that tractor. I could smoothly control the angle of the tractor by raising and lowering the loader. It's a surreal feeling to have that much weight balanced like that! But you're right, you would dig trenches in clay with all four tires before you could ever bog that engine.

 

[Parkanzky]

A quick update. I test drove the JD 2032R with loader this morning. My Deere dealer has 40 acres and they've been doing a bunch of construction, so there are dozens of dirt piles behind the shop. In high-range, I couldn't get the bucket to make a dent in a dirt pile. It didn't come close to running out of traction, it just bogged down immediately. In low-range, however, I found that I didn't have too much trouble getting a bucket-full just by running into the side of the pile with a level bucket. Once I was really into the pile, the tires would start to spin.

I really liked how the tractor operated. The controls were all very intuitive and the steering and hydrostatic are super-smooth. I do sense the limited power, but I think that's just the reality of the class of tractor I'm looking at.

I also got a very clear illustration of the need for ballast. This tractor had just had the loader installed but does not have filled tires or anything hanging off the back. With a full load of dirt in the bucket, I found that the joystick first controlled the height of the loader and then transitioned into controlling the height of the rear tires. Not a great feeling! I'll definitely be making sure there's ballast on whatever tractor I end up buying.

The Kubota dealer said they'd have the loader on their B3350 on Monday. My week is very busy, but I will try to get away for a test drive on that as soon as possible and then comes a decision and final negotiations.

 

[jeff9366]

Installing a Piranha Tooth Bar on any subcompact tractor bucket will make penetrating piles much easier.

Counterbalance on the 3-Pt Hitch will also help. I am surprised the dealer did not mount an implement as counterbalance on the 3-Pt. before turning you free on the demo, to improve your impression of the 2032R.

Does the 2032R have rigid, pin-adjustable stabilizers, and extending Low Links standard or available as an option?

Extendable lower lift arms - a VERY nice feature when attaching any implement, particularly a heavy one. And most implements are not moved around easily sitting on the ground. My previous tractor didn't have the feature, my current one does. I have NEVER been able to hit the "sweet spot" - perfect alignment between tractor & implement - on the first try. Extendable lift arms will, most times, compensate for misalignment.

 

[Parkanzky]

I had to imagine the stability I'd get with some more weight, but overall I was really pleased with the capabilities of this tractor for moving dirt around. I hope that I'm not let down by the PTO HP, but I think it's the right size machine for what I want to do.