Flail Mower Let's talk flail mowers

[IslandTractor]

The Caroni is a lot of mower for the $$, no doubt. If you can get 4-5 years out of knives/clevises, then the cost is no big deal really. If you had to replace them each season it may be a little different.

We'll see how long the Flailmaster clevises last. I got on average about three seasons out of the Caroni clevises which got rather expensive at $7 each plus the flailmaster knives and bolt/nut. Even with the discounted stuff from Flailmaster that cost about $12 per station and with about ten replacements per season about $120 in parts (plus time). Using all AgriSupply replacements would cost about $200 per year. Certainly makes one at least consider the higher priced mower especially if the hassle factor and down time are worth $100-200 a season. Still, the only real "Achilles' Heel" with the Caroni is the clevis so if the Flailmaster replacement works as I hope, that seems a reasonable solution.

 

[IslandTractor]

Flail mowers Mott/Alamo - $1100 (East Lyme CT) on CL. Photo looks like one of them is in excellent condition. 72" cut. Pretty good deal for someone in the Northeast. Flail mowers Mott/Alamo

I don't know anything else about them, just stumbled on the ad.

 

[TDVT]

Hadn't checked on this thread in quite a while, but it seems timely that I did, with what is being discussed. I have had my Caroni TM1900 for about 5 seasons & like everyone else have gone through numerous clevis/shackle failures & hated to buy any more than I had to, due to the price. At the beginning of this season I replaced all the blades, bolts & shackles with no failures this year, so I thought I would share what is working for me.

I ordered the Flailmaster blades (108381, I think) mentioned a good ways back in this thread, used 70mm bolts (w/nylok nuts) instead of the stock 80mm to minimize the unprotected protruding thread & found some clevis/shackles (HERE) that have an un-threaded hole on both sides, that were around $3 each & fit pretty well between the station lugs on the rotor. The only glitch is that, with the curve of this shackle, it can get slightly bound between the rotor lugs when it is folded down, but nothing that the centrifugal force can't undo once the mower is up to speed. Other than that, they bolt right in.

Another modification I recently made was to fabricate a flexible lift link to use in place of the adjustable link on my tractor. I have found that due to the offset of the Caroni that usually once a season I would tweak or break the right-side link when the far end of the mower hit a rise in the ground or the tractor dipped to the right & the mower didn't. There is a lot of leverage there but this flexible link allows the mower & tractor to move independently without snapping anything. I had used chain lift links years back with a rotary mower so I thought I would try it on this & it seems to be working quite well. I will occasionally watch the chain section of the arm & you would be surprised how often it relaxes. But it lifts the mower as if it were solid.

Last, I have a box full of the old Caroni blades & shackles that I would be happy to pass on to anyone who wants them if they pay shipping (USPS Flat-Rate Box, I think around $13). There are some newer parts in there as well as a few hammered ones but the price is right. I would hate to scrap them, so PM if you are interested.

 

[IslandTractor]

Great report TDVT.

1) Those shackles look to be roughly the same cost as the ones I got from Flailmaster but have the advantage of not needing modification to install. Looks like they are the ones to get rather than the ones I got from Flailmaster. (GME Supply Co, SHA38LRBT 3/8" bolt type safety shackle for future reference). I presume there was no difficulty getting the blades over the ears. If the slight binding bothers anyone, a touch up with a grinder would only take a second or two.

2) Thanks for pointing out that 70mm bolts are fine. I cannot tell you how much time and many busted knuckles I have wasted on backing nuts off the damaged 80mm bolts. As 10mm bolts are virtually identical to 3/8" in diameter, I wonder if 3/8" grade 8 bolts would also work. Would probably be easier to source than M10x70mm. 70mm is actually close to 2.75" though so 2.5" might be a tad short. Not sure I've ever seen 2.75" bolts in 3/8" in hardware stores but they are available. I might try to find one though as that would almost completely eliminate the busted up thread issue. I've never seen the slightest example of a nylock bolt coming loose on my mower so I don't know that anything more than a few extra threads of length is really necessary. Here is a potential source for 3/8" grade 8 x2.75" cap screws/bolts: 3/8-16 x 2-3/4 Grade 8 Steel Coarse Hex Cap Screws, Yellow Zinc, Pkg 25 I haven't tried them yet. At less than 50 cents each ($12 for 25), they are about a third the cost of the metric bolts through AgriSupply. Here are the appropriate grade 8 nylock nuts from the same supplier: 3/8-16 Steel Grade 8 Coarse Nylon Insert Lock Nut, Yellow Zinc . Compare that to AgriSupply costs of $3.49 per M10x70 bolt and $1.49 per M10 nylon insert nut. Caroni wants a total of $5 for nut and bolt plus $7 per clevis plus another $7 for a pair of blades or $19 per station (x28=$532 ). The same items from Flailmaster and these other non AgriSupply retailers would total about 1/3rd that much for a full set of 28 stations.

3) Your chain side arms for the 3pt are something I haven't seen before. Chain topping lifts are common but this is novel to me. I don't understand why your rigid arms bent. There is no restriction on a side arm moving up though I suppose as the two sides are linked up pressure on one side would need to lift both sides. That still doesn't seem like enough force to damage the side arms. Perhaps this is tractor specific. On my Kioti DK it doesn't seem to be a problem. The mower only weighs about ?500-700 lbs and the Kioti 3PT is rated for about 3000lbs lift so the individual arms should certainly tolerate at least 1500kbs each. I mow in uneven areas too but have never had a problem with the side arms.

Thanks again for the update.

 

[bruceha2000]

Hadn't checked on this thread in quite a while, but it seems timely that I did, with what is being discussed. I have had my Caroni TM1900 for about 5 seasons & like everyone else have gone through numerous clevis/shackle failures & hated to buy any more than I had to, due to the price. At the beginning of this season I replaced all the blades, bolts & shackles with no failures this year, so I thought I would share what is working for me.

I ordered the Flailmaster blades (108381, I think) mentioned a good ways back in this thread, used 70mm bolts (w/nylok nuts) instead of the stock 80mm to minimize the unprotected protruding thread & found some clevis/shackles (HERE) that have an un-threaded hole on both sides, that were around $3 each & fit pretty well between the station lugs on the rotor. The only glitch is that, with the curve of this shackle, it can get slightly bound between the rotor lugs when it is folded down, but nothing that the centrifugal force can't undo once the mower is up to speed. Other than that, they bolt right in.

Last, I have a box full of the old Caroni blades & shackles that I would be happy to pass on to anyone who wants them if they pay shipping (USPS Flat-Rate Box, I think around $13). There are some newer parts in there as well as a few hammered ones but the price is right. I would hate to scrap them, so PM if you are interested.

Nice find. Just a curiosity since I don't have a flail (or a tractor that could run one) at the moment:
Why did you choose to not sharpen and reuse the Caroni blades that were not spread all over your fields instead of buying all new Flailmasters? Maybe just to start with everything matching?

If there is a concern with the new shackles wearing the station lugs, I think the shackles could be ground just a wee bit. Doesn't seem to be much contact area and it looks like they would still be much sturdier than the OEMs. Those look like they were made straight then bent into a U with a pretty sharp crease. My GUESS it that crease is where they break. Do I win a prize?? I suspect the new ones will last longer than most of us.

And a STUPID question:
Since taking all those nuts off to sharpen the blades is time consuming, is there a reason the shackles couldn't be mounted with clevis pins using an appropriate sized washer to protect the hairpin clip or sacrificial cotter pins?? Seems like one would be likely to sharpen the blades more often if it didn't take so much time to unmount and remount them.

 

[IslandTractor]

Nice find. Just a curiosity since I don't have a flail (or a tractor that could run one) at the moment:
Why did you choose to not sharpen and reuse the Caroni blades that were not spread all over your fields instead of buying all new Flailmasters? Maybe just to start with everything matching?

If there is a concern with the new shackles wearing the station lugs, I think the shackles could be ground just a wee bit. Doesn't seem to be much contact area and it looks like they would still be much sturdier than the OEMs. Those look like they were made straight then bent into a U with a pretty sharp crease. My GUESS it that crease is where they break. Do I win a prize?? I suspect the new ones will last longer than most of us.

And a STUPID question:
Since taking all those nuts off to sharpen the blades is time consuming, is there a reason the shackles couldn't be mounted with clevis pins using an appropriate sized washer to protect the hairpin clip or sacrificial cotter pins?? Seems like one would be likely to sharpen the blades more often if it didn't take so much time to unmount and remount them.

Regarding the use of cotter pins etc instead of nuts. That does sound reasonable and there are flails that use such systems. However, I often notice lots of tightly wound vegetable material (long grass, weed stems, etc) wrapped around the ends of the clevis bolts after mowing in high grass or brush so I would be a bit concerned about those materials somehow loosening and popping off pins. Perhaps this is not a realistic concern but it is why I have continued to use bolts.

The other point is that with the Caroni clevises, the blades are typically lost before they need sharpening or reversing anyways. Again, YMMV as I do largely brush mowing and simple grass mowing might not be as tough on the clevises.

 

[jimmysisson]

My big old Mott mower has side chain supports, too. It must have been a municipal mower before I got it. I had to modify the chain brackets to use my standard Ford link pins but the mower does follow the ground very well. Well, as well as it can at 88" wide!
Jim

 

[TDVT]

I did sharpen/flip the Caroni blades a couple of times but they get pretty beat up & it was finally time to change them all out at once. But before I mounted them, I ordered a sample shackle to check the fit & changed out the whole set-up this spring.

I think that the Flailmaster blades are just a little bit heavier too, so I didn't want to mix & match too much and cause any balance issues. It may be my imagination but the Flailmaster blades seem as though they are cutting better for a longer period of time.

As for bolts vs. pins, I too would be a bit worried about them coming loose with the amount of stuff that gets wrapped up in there.

So far, the new bolts work well & you can actually unbolt them, unlike the longer OEM bolts that were removed with a torch & a Sawzall.

 

[IslandTractor]

So far, the new bolts work well & you can actually unbolt them, unlike the longer OEM bolts that were removed with a torch & a Sawzall.

Nah, you don't need no stinking torch or Sawzall, I got mine off with a 1/2" socket wrench and four foot cheater bar! Took only about ten to fifteen minutes and I was very happy doing that job!

 

[bruceha2000]

I did sharpen/flip the Caroni blades a couple of times but they get pretty beat up & it was finally time to change them all out at once. But before I mounted them, I ordered a sample shackle to check the fit & changed out the whole set-up this spring.

I think that the Flailmaster blades are just a little bit heavier too, so I didn't want to mix & match too much and cause any balance issues. It may be my imagination but the Flailmaster blades seem as though they are cutting better for a longer period of time.

As for bolts vs. pins, I too would be a bit worried about them coming loose with the amount of stuff that gets wrapped up in there.

So far, the new bolts work well & you can actually unbolt them, unlike the longer OEM bolts that were removed with a torch & a Sawzall.

My thought with regard to cotter pins would be to install them the same way you do on a mushroom anchor. Put the pin through, bend both legs back around the pin in opposite directions. No way you want a pin on a shackle you will never see coming loose! Some people use self bonding rigging tape topside on cotter pins that they don't want to bend open too far so they can be taken out easily. Could be used on a flail I suppose if lots of veg gets caught around the cotter pins.

Cotter pins are cheap enough that you could just cut the "head" off, remove the legs, sharpen the blades and reinstall with new pins. Removal and replacement of the pins wouldn't be more than about a minute per set.