Pasture Renovation

[PLMLLC]

Good day. I am looking for some advice from some experienced mulchers. I do quite a bit of mulching with my 299 XHP but haven't done a project liek this. I got a call from someone that has 20 acres of 25 yr old pine they just had logged. They are looking to have it restored to become pasture. They want me to mulch all the slash and stumps level to ground. I am not renting a dozer to scrap it all or an excavator to pull the stumps. They want a mulcher. Has anyone done this type of project? What is the time frame based on finish product to seed and fertilize? Rough estimates to clean up. I have some ideas in my head but looking for some feedback from people with who have done this type of project. Thanks in advance.

 

[fishfactor]

We have done many jobs just like you describe. The large stumps will be very time consuming with the small machine, unless you are running a cimaf head. Everything depends on the conditions the logger left. Clean sites can go very quick, where disaster sites can takes days per acre. We have literally done sites from $500 to $6,000 per acre. Just be sure to explain that the stumps will rot, and the hardwoods will re-sprout. They will need to bush hog at least once a year and/or spray something like arsonal or crossbow to keep the hardwoods down. Then after the stumps rot, they will probably want to disc everything and replant to smooth the depressions left by the rotting stumps. We usually recommend waiting until the hardwoods re-sprout, then have a contract sprayer come in before we mulch the site at least 3-4 weeks later. This seems to be the most effective if the time frame is acceptable.

 

[PLMLLC]

Thank you for the input... I don't do a lot of the larger projects. Mostly thinning jobs and some 2 or 3 acre lot clearing. This is a first for true pasture reclamation/renovation. The hardwood resprouts are a pain in the butt. I like your idea on spraying everything and then mulching. I am looking at the project on Wednesday so I will have a better idea after that of what they want and how much of a nightmare the site is. This is a family farm they just inherited. I think they are trying to get seed in the ground by the fall season for prime grass seeding so the timing my work. Unfortunately I just have a Cat 415HM head, which has done great on anything pine so far. It has the stock CAT teeth with 200 hrs on them. What makes the Cimaf head so much better and what is the maintenance like on them?

 

[gilbertmsg]

Don't think they will be able to plant this fall. I have some experience in planting in cleared land. The land will need to be limed and time given for tree shavings to rot. Some grass will grow, but it will be thin. Next fall it should be fine.

Eddie

 

[yellowdogsvc]

Check and see if the 415 will take the Cobra teeth and get them around the middle of your drum. They are similar to the knives on the Cimaf. I like the Cimaf designed head but I also like a trap door and I don't think Cimaf offers that option.

The Cobras will work wonders on those big stumps.. I run only 6 around the middle of my drum on my vt 150 (similar to cat 415) and it makes a huge difference. I'm going to order some more to get 10-12 in the middle of the drum since I work in a lot of rock. They are double-sided. Don't bother with the carbide. My first experience with the Cobra carbide was not good. They broke in about 10 minutes.. literally and are only single-sided.

I can't help much with the reseeding but I think the advice above about a clean site versus disaster will make the difference in your bid. Can you get some pics?

 

[PLMLLC]

Here are the pics of the site. Almost no slash except for one long windrow of the tops and branches. All stumps are literally 2 inches tall. At most 3 inches. Some are so flat with the ground they don't need anything. The pine was planted 25 yrs ago all in rows. They want the stumps level not super worried about debris. They just want to be able to drive a fertilizer truck and a seed truck through fairly easy. They are going to plant this fall and they know its not going to be perfect. They have a few years to get the pasture correct. Total of about 15 acres of stumps. They want to do this all as organically as possible.

 

[PLMLLC]

another pic of the stumps in a row

 

[tonyoz]

I have cleaned up pine plantations like this using our mulcher and stumpgrinder. Usually I grind the stumps first just down 4" below ground level and can do about 100 stumps per hour. Then run over the whole job with the mulcher . Down here in Oz hardwood stumps if ground below surface level then left buried will not resprout so could be the same up where you blokes are.

 

[PLMLLC]

Tony, That is a good idea that I never thought of. The CAT store has a stump grinder for my 299. I could use that and probably with it being pine that was just cut I could rip through them pretty quickly and not put my mulcher through the abuse. Then back drag all the debris with my mulcher smoothing it out and cleaning it up some. Sounds like my best option so far. Thank you!

 

[PLMLLC]

Tony, That is a good idea that I never thought of. The CAT store has a stump grinder for my 299. I could use that and probably with it being pine that was just cut I could rip through them pretty quickly and not put my mulcher through the abuse. Then back drag all the debris with my mulcher smoothing it out and cleaning it up some. Sounds like my best option so far. Thank you!

 

[tonyoz]

PLMLLC bear in mind I use a 140hp machine so your rate of work may be a little less The photo shows what can be achieved to beat the customers expectations which is usually a piece of cake.

 

[PLMLLC]

That looks like a great finish product. I understand the hp difference will make it a little slower than you but it will still be better than using my mulcher. Plus I don't want to go to deep with each stump. The client likes the idea of the grinder and are all for it. CAT is going to have one ready for me next week. This should be a fun project!

 

[marshalldougherty]

I don't much about mulchers, but I do know quite a bit about tree and stump removal equipment. Turbo Saw cut's below the ground with it's mining grade carbide teeth and it cuts on a 23 gpm skid up to 6" a second.

 

[fishfactor]

Thats a clean site. The loggers must have used a chipper. I would love to pull up there to work instead of the typical site that looks like a hurricane came through. Those stumps don't look like 25 year growth unless the soil is poor or they were not thinned at recommended intervals. We just did a first thinning on 13 year old loblolly pines with stumps that size, and actually used a 299XHP/Fecon BH74 with carbide teeth to grind the stumps flush. Go over stump forward, drop down flush and back up over stump, done. But that was with brand new teeth. We have also used a stump grinder and it works good, but if they just want them flush it's not necessary. You are probably looking at 600+/- stumps per acre if the trees were not thinned, so be sure to do the math.

 

[Piston]

<img src="http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/files/land-clearing-equipment/383952-pasture-renovation-rotator-saw-jpg"/> I don't much about mulchers, but I do know quite a bit about tree and stump removal equipment. Turbo Saw cut's below the ground with it's mining grade carbide teeth and it cuts on a 23 gpm skid up to 6" a second.

Welcome to TBN! There have been numerous questions on the tree saw in the recent past, so hopefully you'll be able to dig up some old posts and give us some more information.

I have asked quite a few questions myself and am interested in learning more. Perhaps you could start a thread about the tree saws and give us some more information and real world experience.

 

[yellowdogsvc]

The cat stump grinder will throw some chips, is easy to use, and telescopes as well as swings in a wide arc. I owned one and like it a lot.

I'd haul off any long, round logs larger than 7"-8" or hire someone to cut them to lengths shorter than your cutting width to facilitate chewing them up. Get some Cobra teeth in the middle of your drum, too, and you should have no problems on a job like that aside from occasional longer logs which will get kicked out under your machine necessitating backing up a lot to chase them.

Looks like a fun job.

 

[PLMLLC]

The loggers cut and dragged every tree to the landing where they were limbed and topped them into one pile. They did a good job as the farm ahs about 200 more acres of pine that they are going to select cut. The soil is red clay and thats it. And the trees were not maintained. We estimated 500 per acre.... The CAT rental guy was wrong and they don't have a stump grinder for my 299 to rent. They have one in stock to sell at $11k. So I ordered 6 new teeth for the center of the drum and going to see how the mulching goes. Kind of hoping they will decide to rent me the grinder but will make the mulcher work. Its all by the hour as they understand its a hard project to bid

 

[tonyoz]

Bugger about the stumpgrinder, they turn a good job into a fantastic job but you and the landowner are gonna be laughing. :thumbsup:

 

[marshalldougherty]

Thank you for the invite. I am more than happy to share my knowledge on our tree & brush cutting attachments. We have been making these cutting attachments for over a decade and we try to have one of the most technological attachments on the market. I will start a thread.

Marshall

 

[PLMLLC]

Here are some pics from this projects. Cleaning up all the tops as well as expanding the pasture area opening up some Walnut trees. Its fun so far. A lot of stumps to do!