Diverter to 3rd function

[jcummins]

After a couple of days using a grapple with a diverter setup on my M7040, I'm considering going to a 3rd function. The diverter works, but, for me I have to be very deliberate with how I use the button/joystick, and it slows things down. I should live with it, but I've got a lot more grapple work to do, and want it to operate different. I may sell the diverter valve, but I may also plumb it into the 2 rear remotes I have, adding a third remote, especially since I have both tied up with a TNT setup. I don't need a third valve now, but .... I may in the future.

To go with a 3rd function I need to understand a few things. Research over the internet shows some have cut into their high pressure line, added adapters to both ends, then plumb in the manifold...in line with this pressure line. I take it, for tractors with power beyond, you accomplish the same thing, but simply plumbing in a line to the power beyond, and from the outlet of the manifold, return the flow to the return port.

Below is two pictures of the M7040 FEL loader valve. Can anyone tell me which is the power beyond, and which is the return port. What type of adapter screws into both of these ports. If I take any of the caps off these ports with the tractor not running, do I have any fluid issues other than incidental at the port? First picture is from the side. The second is from the front with three caps. All three caps are different....why is that?

 

[J_J]

I only see six hoses, perhaps one is hidden.

A FEL valve setup usually has seven hoses.

The PB port may be marked with the letters PB, PBY, BY.

PB port is usually in the center of the side of the valve, but could be located elsewhere.

If you do find the PB outlet, that hose goes to the IN port of the 3rd function valve, and the OUT goes to the remote or 3pt.

You can use both valves at the same time if you only use half lever on the FEL, as that will allow some pump flow to pass downstream for the 3rd function valve.

If you push the FEL lever all the way, you will have no flow downstream until the lever is released.

 

[jcummins]

Before I posted, I read everything I could find about power beyond, and even watched some videos. Everything talks in general terms. I had read that the power beyond would be labeled PB.....I can find any mark of PB anywhere. So if I'm going to do this 3rd function, unscrewing caps to a port that I don't know what it is....ain't going to work. Can't deal in general terms at this point.

The four hoses in the middle are obviously to the loader, labeled 1A 1B 2A 2B....the hose below those four is labeled 8Y. That hose and the one above the loader hoses got back to a squared box, and think this feeds the rear remotes. Here is a closer picture of the bottom hose. Right above that bottom hose, it does have a cap, that appears smaller than the opening that all the other hoses go to, but it is another 'orifice' that needs a label.



I took another picture (blurry) of the three caps on the end, no labels, other than the middle one has YW236 on the side of it. All the caps are shaped different, and no further labeling that I could find. I would think someone famaliar with this, could have a clue what to label these based upon the different size and shaped of the caps....has to be a reason for that. ALL of these capped spots, need a label. The 7th hose is besides the top cap, and is a metal line, appears to be a return line. It goes back a bit, then straight into the side of the tractor.

 

[kennyd]

Those "caps" are NOT what your looking for, two are the springs and detent's for the float and regen function, the small one with the nut is the PRV (pressure relief valve) I think.

Try to ID the hose coming from the pump going to the valve, that will be the one you need to add the subplate inline with.

 

[J_J]

Follow the pump out hose and see where it connects to the FEL valve

If you can id the IN port, you can add an air plug and feed the valve air for testing.

Only the PB will pass air when the lever is in the neutral position.

 

[J_J]

I believe your PB is labeled in green in post #3

Someone above said 8Y, but could be BY = beyond

 

[jcummins]

Your PB is labeled in green in post #3

It is stamped PB for all to see.

I see 8Y just a tick to the right of the green mark. I see no PB.

 

[jcummins]

The lower hose on the side with the green mark goes into this junction box, and is on the left. The hose above the fourn loader hoses goes to this same box, and is on the right. Metal lines looks to go to the rear remotes out of this box.

 

[jcummins]

Those "caps" are NOT what your looking for, two are the springs and detent's for the float and regen function, the small one with the nut is the PRV (pressure relief valve) I think.

Try to ID the hose coming from the pump going to the valve, that will be the one you need to add the subplate inline with.

KennyD...this comment makes me wonder about the term power beyond PORT. Is power beyond simply a tie in to the power line that feeds the fel...or the rear remotes? There is a youtube video talking about doing that very thing. I thought that video pertained to tractors without a PORT. If so, the manifold install is exactly the same as the diveter install, except specifically on that 'fluid power' line. Am I making an sense.

 

[J_J]

Did you not read my post?

The 3rd function is not like the diverter install. Not even similar.

 

[jcummins]

Did you not read my post?

The 3rd function is not like the diverter install. Not even similar.

Yep...about three times. So it does not install 'in line' of the power beyond line. There is a PORT then?

KennyD ruled out the caps on the end of the valve it seems, and from what I know, I tend to agree. This only leaves that same cap above the line where the green paint is. the two hoses not associated with the loader than goes to the rear remotes, then must be the power beyond line, and the return line.....feeding the rear remotes. Looking from below the valve I find another small cap below the top line. In the pic below is the cap above the bottom line, the PB port...the cap above that which is just below the top hose, the return? Am I right? Any idea the adapters needed to screw into those?

 

[J_J]

This is what a PB adapter looks like.

The FEL valve must have a PB adapter installed as the remote is fed from the PB adapter.

So you interrupt this flow path with the 3rd function is series.

PB out to 3rd function IN port.

3rd function OUT port feeds the remote valves.

The PB port will always have fluid flowing through it with all valves in neutral.

 

[jcummins]

I commented above....the two hoses not associated with the loader than goes to the rear remotes, then must be the power beyond line, and the return line.....feeding the rear remotes.

I think it's the other way around. These hoses are the feed lines to the FEL valve. The large metal line near the top of the valve, my post #3 second picture that goes into the side of the tractor then does what?

 

[SSdoxie]

Take out the elbow fitting at the green mark and the plug just above it. I'm sure you will see a passage hole between the 2 ports. The Power Beyond adapter, similar to what JJ posted (that you don't have yet) will screw into the port that has the 90 fitting in it now and you the add a return line from the smaller plug back to drain/reservoir.

 

[J_J]

Since they have a remote valve, I am thinking that fitting in the green port is a PB adapter.

 

[jcummins]

Take out the elbow fitting at the green mark and the plug just above it. I'm sure you will see a passage hole between the 2 ports. The Power Beyond adapter, similar to what JJ posted (that you don't have yet) will screw into the port that has the 90 fitting in it now and you the add a return line from the smaller plug back to drain/reservoir.

I'm with you up to... "and you add a return line from the smaller plug back to drain/reservoir"

The 3rd function valve mounts on a manifold which fluid will pass all the time, and the valve uses on demand.....Right? The IN port of that manifold attaches where? The out port of that manifold attaches where?

Add a return line from the smaller plug...the plug just above the elbow hose with the green mark?
Back to drain/reservoir...which attaches where?

Having asked that, I don't understand the reason for the PB adapter. What screws into that adapter, hose to the new valve? then where does the elbow remove from where the adapter goes...where does it go.

 

[J_J]

I am not sure you understand what I am telling you.

I have clearly indicated what should be done.

The PB adapter is there to pass high pressure fluid downstream to other valves. It separates the valve galleries into two paths, the PB path and the OUT path. All cyl fluid exits the OUT path to tank. Unused pump flow passes through the PB port

Your 3rd function valve goes in series between the FEL valve and the remotes.

Run a hose from the PB adapter to the IN port of the 3rd function valve. Then run a hose from the OUT port of the 3rd function valve to the remote valve IN port.

When done correctly, the flow should be something like this.

Pump to FEL, FEL PB to 3rd function valve IN port, 3rd function valve OUT port to IN port remote valve, to 3pt, to tank. That is your series flow path.

 

[jcummins]

I am not sure you understand what I am telling you.

I have clearly indicated what should be done.

The PB adapter is there to pass high pressure fluid downstream to other valves. It separates the valve galleries into two paths, the PB path and the OUT path. All cyl fluid exits the OUT path to tank. Unused pump flow passes through the PB port

Your 3rd function valve goes in series between the FEL valve and the remotes.

Run a hose from the PB adapter to the IN port of the 3rd function valve. Then run a hose from the OUT port of the 3rd function valve to the remote valve IN port.

When done correctly, the flow should be something like this.

Pump to FEL, FEL PB to 3rd function valve IN port, 3rd function valve OUT port to IN port remote valve, to 3pt, to tank. That is your series flow path.

HA....I'm CERTAIN I'm not understanding. The terminology gets me hosed up. I'm simply not thinking nor using the same terminology you are....I'm trying, but without success.

SO, the FEL sees power before the rear remotes?, not the opposite? I was thinking that originally, then got to thinking it was the other way around.

Perhaps I have a misconception of the 3rd function valve and the manifold that you need to mount the valve too. As I understand it, the valve is bolted to the manifold and has access to the passing fluid when the valve is activated? The valve isn't actually attached directly to the hydraulics, the manifold is.

Where is the "remote valve IN port", you mention in your statement...Run a hose from the PB adapter to the IN port of the 3rd function valve. Then run a hose from the OUT port of the 3rd function valve to the remote valve IN port.

AND...if the elbow hose is removed from the PB port and routed to the 3rd function valve, then I've got to believe that elbow is going to attach somewhere else.

 

[J_J]

You said you have remote valves correct?

If you have remote valves, they are being supplied with fluid from probably the PB port.

The 90 degree fitting is there for convenience, and not necessary in all conditions. If you can use the 90 degree elbow, then use it.

The 3rd function is the valve with the manifold attached. It has 4 ports maybe 5 if a gage port is supplied.

You need to verify that the green mark is the PB port and if that is a PB adapter in that port.

Just remove the 90 degree fitting and then remove the possible PB fitting, and see if it looks like the picture above.

Once the PB is established, run a hose from the PB adapter to the IN port of the 3rd function valve.

The OUT of the 3rd function valve then connect to the 90 degree hose you remove from the PB port.

Connection differ on some tractors, so I hope I have guided you correctly. All valves have to be in series.

 

[jcummins]

J_J thanks....

I understand this....
Once the PB is established, run a hose from the PB adapter to the IN port of the 3rd function valve.
The OUT of the 3rd function valve then connect to the 90 degree hose you remove from the PB port.

And it was the way I was thinking all the time. I was not aware of the PB adapter though. It seems if a tractor has a PB port....the adapter should be built in, if PB is not functional without it. And, I was not aware the rear remotes runs off PB. Thought the rears had it's own setup. If a tractor with existing remotes has a fel added, the pressure line must require rerouting to the fel first.

Also, not sure I understand the plug above the hose with the elbow though. What is it's purpose?

I'll open some things up tomorrow.