L48 Hydraulic leak down

[gwdixon]

My L48, purchased w/1100 hours on it, seems to have hydraulic issues and I'd like some feedback from those more experienced with the model and with hydraulics.

1. Overnight, the BH main lift arm will leak down so the bucket sits on the ground in the morning. The dealer says it is normal and just put in the transport pin and forget about it. True?

2. One stabilizer will leak down to the ground over 3 days while the other one stays upright. Dealer says a rebuild kit is necessary. Since one goes down and the other doesn't it makes sense.

3. The FEL bucket will continually leak down. When used as an anchor during BH work it will be effective for about 5 minutes. After that the front wheels will be on the ground and scooting along like a puppy with worms.

4. The FEL bucket was filled with water for dumping in a hole and you could see the bucket leaking down quite apparently. The dealer intends to rebuild both cylinders and hopes it is not the spool.

5. There is a small hydraulic drip where the transmission case is glued together. The dealer said it was from working the front and rear of the L48 and the forces work to separate the case. He will torque down the bolts and hope for the best. Otherwise it is a complete tear-down and will run $3K.

6. Minor leaks on 8-10 of the hoses at the connections are apparent.

The engine starts and runs like a dream so I'd like to get the BH in the best shape possible.

Sorry for the long post but if you can address any one, or more, of the problems just refer to them by number. Comments are appreciated. Thanks.

 

[SouthernConservative]

I have a L4310 - FEL had simular issues - I pulled all four cycls and had them rebuilt - Kit @ $50.00 plus $60.00 for labor - $440.00 and all four work like new - the cycls get worked and worn out - replacing the seals will fix the issues you descibe - also get new hoses with a fabric guard on them.

As for the tranny - tighten down the bolts and go to work - most every tractor leaks somewhere.

Don't cheeeep on the hoses - blown hoses will kill you, also pull all the cycls that you can - it will save you labor costs.

 

[lamarbur]

I had a L 48 for 6 yrs and the hoe would leak down overnight if not pinned. I never had the other problems you listed,,,, Although I am **** about upkeep and maintenance,,, The machine was gone over almost immediately after heavy use and I wasn't afraid to use it.... Never had leaks at pistons and hoses or the case as you say,. It sounds to me that the machine you just obtained was originally a rental unit,, I looked atmany rental units and the problems you list is the same I saw on rental units with little or no maintenance done to them... Doesn't mean that yours is definitely a rental however..

 

[gwdixon]

Thanks lamarbur and SouthernConservative for your insights.

The L48 was purchased by the original owner for use in digging up and repairing septic lines and other plumbing work. My dealer did a search and noted the original owner bought it in 2002 and was the guy I bought it from so I'm the second owner.

It was obviously worked hard in ground that is filled with shale rock in the California Gold Country so that may be a factor.

He bought a new L48 with the 0% financing from Kubota so appeared to be changing out his used tractor for new.

I guess the main BH shaft leakdown is common as also related to me by the dealer so I'll just pin it when it is not in use or the FEL is being used.

The previous owner had service records that indicated he did the service as scheduled in the manual but one never really knows. He seemed like a good guy and was a contractor in good standing with the state.

The price was $23K so a couple of K's in repair wouldn't be too bad on the budget.

 

[Ductape]

My L48, purchased w/1100 hours on it, seems to have hydraulic issues and I'd like some feedback from those more experienced with the model and with hydraulics.

1. Overnight, the BH main lift arm will leak down so the bucket sits on the ground in the morning. The dealer says it is normal and just put in the transport pin and forget about it. True?

*Normal. More a matter of how long it takes than whether or not its going to happen. Like your dealer says.... if its a problem, pin it up.*

2. One stabilizer will leak down to the ground over 3 days while the other one stays upright. Dealer says a rebuild kit is necessary. Since one goes down and the other doesn't it makes sense.

*Again, perfectly normal. If its parked long enough for then to leak down, a simple nylon strap will keep them up.... like a pull strap to tie down a dirtbike.*

3. The FEL bucket will continually leak down. When used as an anchor during BH work it will be effective for about 5 minutes. After that the front wheels will be on the ground and scooting along like a puppy with worms.

4. The FEL bucket was filled with water for dumping in a hole and you could see the bucket leaking down quite apparently. The dealer intends to rebuild both cylinders and hopes it is not the spool.

*The front end loader leakdown sounds like it happens fast enough to be an actual problem. This I would let the dealer repair. Again..... some leakdown is expected, but yours sounds like its excessive here.*

5. There is a small hydraulic drip where the transmission case is glued together. The dealer said it was from working the front and rear of the L48 and the forces work to separate the case. He will torque down the bolts and hope for the best. Otherwise it is a complete tear-down and will run $3K.

*I'd need to see what you are talking about here, but it sounds like your dealer has good advice so far, so I'd let him look at this and then advise me.*

6. Minor leaks on 8-10 of the hoses at the connections are apparent.

*A little residue around fittings is pretty normal on anything with some hours on it. Have tried to snug up any of the fittings with a wrench? Might be that simple.*

The engine starts and runs like a dream so I'd like to get the BH in the best shape possible.

Sorry for the long post but if you can address any one, or more, of the problems just refer to them by number. Comments are appreciated. Thanks.

Overall, I generally like your dealers advice. In general, some hydraulic leakdown is pretty normal. I'd let him look at it and go from there.

 

[gwdixon]

Quick update:

One of the FEL's cylinders had been tweaked out of alignment by the previous owner and the seals had been worn unevenly and split causing the FEL leakdown. The mechanic had to use a breaker bar to get the cylinder pins back in on one side. The alignment was not corrected so it will be an ongoing problem. My thought was to heat the mount to red hot with a torch and the out of alignment stress should relieve itself. The dealer suggested machining out the mount holes. Any thoughts on this from the TBN experts?

Four leaking hoses were replaced. One stabilizer cylinder was rebuilt. The pumps, valves, and spools seem to be fine.

The budget damage: $1200 total, $900 in labor, $300 in parts.

 

[mike69440]

Quick update:

My thought was to heat the mount to red hot with a torch and the out of alignment stress should relieve itself. The dealer suggested machining out the mount holes. Any thoughts on this from the TBN experts?

Sounds like a good way to start a hydraulic oil fire and damage the grain structure of the welds.

 

[J_J]

Quick update:

My thought was to heat the mount to red hot with a torch and the out of alignment stress should relieve itself. The dealer suggested machining out the mount holes. Any thoughts on this from the TBN experts?

Sounds like a good way to start a hydraulic oil fire and damage the grain structure of the welds.

If it binds on the rod end, turn the rod over 180, and see if any difference. If on the cylinder end, grind out enough metal to allow the cylinder end to move freely, and add another piece of metal bored out for an extra long pin. Weld in the new metal pin hanger.

 

[Egon]

[QUOTE My thought was to heat the mount to red hot with a torch and the out of alignment stress should relieve itself.][/QUOTE]

First figure out exactly what is out of alignment and by how much.

Then do your heating and use a bar[or whatever else fits your application.] to align everything properly. Use the cylinder to check the alignment. and bend some more if necessary. Don't leave the cylinder end in the hot end.

Just heating will not straighten it.

 

[Donsyl]

I wouldnt heat it just for fear of making things worse.....i would try to flip it over 180 like one of the other posts said or try to open up the holes and fit a bigger pin in it.........good luck.....Don

 

[gwdixon]

After all of the good and variety of advice I think I'll make the final decision when these new cylinder seals fail. The dealer said that they may last 500 hours or 50 hours given the uneven wear caused by the misalignment.

There is another thread on TBN that discusses how to "self-do" the seals and since the cylinder has been apart once it should be easier to take apart next time.

The tweak is on the rod end so a hydraulic oil fire is not likely if heat is applied. The grease may light up but that can be contained.

My thought about heating where the brackets join the boom to let the existing stress align the pin should work. After all, when heated red hot, stress is put on metal to bend it so it is logical to use the existing stress on the pin to "self-bend" the mount. It would result in a decent alignment and the stress would be gone. If plastic enough the mount could be bent slightly more to try to get a perfect alignment. A large pipe wrench should apply sufficient leverage.

I'd support the bucket with one of my other tractors so the brackets would not turn into a pretzel from the bucket's weight. That support would be necessary to get the cylinder end as far away from the heat and flame as possible.

Turning over the rod end will be tried when the seals are replaced next time but it is fairly obvious that the bracket is out of alignment. If turning the rod over works then that means the rod is bent and the problem transfers from it being the bracket to it being the rod.

Once again, my delay in addressing the problem is because once the pin is out it may be impossible for me to get it back in. The mechanic had a considerable stuggle and mentioned it personally to me when the L48 was picked up. This is from a guy that does tractor repair for a living and has a wealth of experience with such things. Next time I'm at the dealership I'll ask the mechanic if he tried turning over the rod end. He most likely did.

Once again, a thank you to the good folks on TBN for the advice.

 

[J_J]

How about a picture of what you say is out of alignment.

 

[gwdixon]

Strange. I posted a picture early this morning but it didn't show up even though it was there on the preview.

I'll try again. It was on TBN and I even tested it. Oh well.

The right side of the picture shows the 1/4" gap and the left side of the mount is flush. It does accept grease as you can see. At least maybe that will prevent galling.

 

[tungularafishcamp]

Did you get the leak in the case resolved? Mine has just started leaking from the seam in the top of the case, seems like an unusual place for a leak??

 

[gwdixon]

Did you get the leak in the case resolved? Mine has just started leaking from the seam in the top of the case, seems like an unusual place for a leak??

The leak was just left alone and it has not gotten worse. There are still drips here and there on the machine so that particular leak kind of faded into the background.

 

[rbargeron]

Did you get the leak in the case resolved? Mine has just started leaking from the seam in the top of the case, seems like an unusual place for a leak??

Can you see the leak location? It can be hard to pinpoint with the floor platform in place. Starting at the engine there are actually 5 seams - 4 that contain oil, 3 under pressure. Checking and tightening bolts might help but it's a long shot. If you find any bolts that will turn, loosen the outer frame bolts a little to allow things to move. Could be a lot of work for little or no effect. Is it small steady seepage? Or does it get worse when running?

 

[tungularafishcamp]

It is just a steady 6 drips a minute, only when running. Unfortunately I am not in Oregon where it's at and it has my tractor partner concerned with dripping oil on things. I won't be down there til dec or jan, my first thought if none of the bolts are loose,(he said they weren't ) was to put a little JB Weld on the seam?? Any thoughts on that?

 

[rbargeron]

It would be easier to seal if it was a constant drip whether running or not. For it to leak only when running indicates it's being pushed by one of the hydraulic circuits - hopefully just a loose oil cooler line, a power steering leak or the 3-point lift, but it could also be from the HST.

I would maybe clean the area well with solvent and dry it off and try to pinpoint exactly what's leaking. The leak could be somewhere else running down to the low-point seam and dripping off. There are backhoe feed tubes and filters above the transmission under the floorboard panel. On the HST housing there are 4 relief valves with pipe plugs, a small pipe with two connections, the regulator block with its own gasket and external valve adjuster, two triangular gasketed plates - all of these would be easier to deal with than the large seams between housings.

If the leak really is at a major seam, clean it off again and vee it about 1/8" deep with an angle grinder an inch or two each way from the leak so there's clean metal on both sides of the gasket line. Charge pressure (one of the possible sources when running) is 300-400 psi so the surfaces will need to be very clean for the JB weld to stick well enough) I might even try keying the sides of the groove with a dremel tool - to help create a mechanical lock for the patch.

The job being avoided here is splitting this machine - an L48 is really a Grand L-10 tractor bolted inside a big steel frame - most of which has to be taken away before the tractor can be split. Depending on what you find it might be a better plan to sell it to some one who doesn't care about a small leak. As always, prompt cheerful refund if info is bogus. Good luck, Dick B

 

[tungularafishcamp]

Thanks Dick, good idea about v'ing it, I will pass this whole thread along to my cousin